Musings on paying Tribute

[Bluemofia]

i never pay tribute. besides, if you are strong enough, you can bully the ai to give you money, or a map. i have done it several times before invading them. if they give me gpt, then i delay the invasion for 20 turns.

 

[a4phantom]

My philosophy is that paying tribute is just shifting the balance further in your enemy's favor, and only acceptable in extreme cases.

 

[genghis_khev]

As per most early in the game, if the war would be very costly, then I pay.

If I think I could withstand the initial onslaught (the first offencive or defencive wave is usually the worst, esp. when railroads are abundant) then I keep the cash (tech, map, whatever). This has lead to some very dramatic and heroic defences (an elite unit with 1hp has held off 2 or 3 weak attackers before!).

Once I have cavalry however..... Well lets just say I have a looooooong memory :die:

As for me demanding tribute, I do it:
a) when they really, really, really anoy me! :saiyan:
b) as a prelude (i.e. reason) to war
c) for a laff
d) most commonly though is is entirely by accident !!!

 

[Bluemofia]

accident? i never demand on accident! only purposly, and when i am about to rain death of their cities with nukes , or planes! then the tanks come in :tank: :tank: :tank:

 

[Qitai]

If you want to try to beat the higher levels, you better pay tribute when asked. This is because the AIs will be much much stronger than you for a long long time. Until the time when you are comparable size to them, refusing tribute would be foolish especially if they are your immediate neighbour with twice as many cities as you. Refusing a dumb AI on the other side of the world who can never reach you in 20 turns a whole different story.

 

[Bluemofia]

and the ai prefers to trade among themselves, and soon you will have to fight the whole world.

 

[Grille]

Qitai sums it up perfectly. It all depends on the difficulty level.
Refusing an early demand from your neighbour is suicide on a higher level, AI's bonus starting units alone are mostly too much of a threat then.

OTOH, you can almost always rip of all neighbouring AI by very early peace re-negotiations up to monarch (fairly low risk).
Works as well on emperor (at least if you talk to the weaker civs) when you had a decent start.

 

[Za01phod]

Just make sure you don't have too much cash in ancient and medieval times. Paying the AI 10 won't hurt you and won't do them much good.

 

[Bucephalus]

I have learned to swallow my pride, when necessary, and will occasionly pay tribute to a stronger neighbour. But boy, do I bear a grudge! Sooner or later their cities burn.

 

[froglegs]

I normally pay since I learned the hard way that it is cheaper in the long run to pay. I was playing the TET mod as Rome once when China, a 800 pound gorilla in that game, demanded ~100 gold or so. I refused. Make my day! It would take him 50 turns to get to me on that 256 X 256 map. Well, he bribed all my neighbors to join him. I held out but it was ugly for a while.

This demand of tribute by stronger opponents is one of the best features in the game though. It serves as a real-life lesson in this dangerous world that we live in that there are bullies out there that will destroy you unless -- unless you have a strong military that can kick their sorry butt. And no whining to the UN or some other such debating society will protect you.

 

[Speedo]

The Ai's demand tribute when they see their military is stronger than yours. I never give tribute either. Bring it on!

I dunno, by the late stages of my last game I was by far the most powerful (AIs had been in wars all through the industrial age, letting me get a large tech lead) but they were still demanding tribute. None of 'em declared war though.

Earlier that game thought, the Inca (my northern neighbors) demanded tribute and declared war, but they left a huge stack of about 50 units right on the border- most of their military. After a thorough pounding by arty and bombers, the tanks scraped up the remains leaving the Inca with no military to speak of

 

[Justus II]

Originally posted by Speedo


I dunno, by the late stages of my last game I was by far the most powerful (AIs had been in wars all through the industrial age, letting me get a large tech lead) but they were still demanding tribute. None of 'em declared war though.

Earlier that game thought, the Inca (my northern neighbors) demanded tribute and declared war, but they left a huge stack of about 50 units right on the border- most of their military. After a thorough pounding by arty and bombers, the tanks scraped up the remains leaving the Inca with no military to speak of

I still believe that it depends on raw number of units, not tech or type of units. So if the AI has a hundred cav/muskets, and you have 40 Modern Armor, he sees you as weak.

 

[Qitai]

That was changed I believe since civ 3 patch 1.29. In the earlier version, I am seen as strong when I have 100 workers.

And my experience about AI declaring is the same as speedo. When I am much stronger, they still do demand, but never has any AI ever dare to war me (although I was really hoping that they will declare to give me war happiness in those cases). So far, it looks almost like a certainty that they will declare if I am weaker and they will not declare if I am stronger.

 

[wilbill]

Yeah, since 1.29 PTW, if not earlier, Offensive units "weigh" heavier than defensive. I believe artillery factors in somehow, too but not sure how.

 

[Justus II]

Originally posted by Qitai
That was changed I believe since civ 3 patch 1.29. In the earlier version, I am seen as strong when I have 100 workers.

And my experience about AI declaring is the same as speedo. When I am much stronger, they still do demand, but never has any AI ever dare to war me (although I was really hoping that they will declare to give me war happiness in those cases). So far, it looks almost like a certainty that they will declare if I am weaker and they will not declare if I am stronger.

Thanks, I know it had improved, but I wondered how accuratly it judges relative strength. In particular, does it take into account the tech difference? We can be even in terms of current military power, but if I am more advanced, I can crank out bombers, etc, vs. his cavalry, so I have more potential power, which the AI probably cannot judge.

I do agree that it is rare for them to actually declare if I have a large lead, as you said. Although I still have the occasional idiot sneak attack, where he lands a musket and 2 longbows, and declares war, when I am industrial with 80+ cav running around.

 

[genghis_khev]

Yes but then you get to kill them legally without everyone whining about it. God bless stuid AIs!

 

[Renfield]

They should change the responses on the Demand Tribute screen, and add in: “You want it, come and take it!” or “Up yours!” or just plain “Bring it!”

I agree.

I rarely pay tribute. If I do pay I will imediately start planning for a war with the demanding AI. Because you just know they are coming back for more in a few turns.

 

[Bluemofia]

well, in tetkurman's map, i was china, and the aztecs demanded me nationalism, and i refused, since only the native americans are left, and they have what, 230 jaguar warriors, and i have modern armors, cavalry, flamethrowers, bombers, etc, and they declare war on me. now, they are up to their neck with modern armors, an aircraft carrier stationed just off the shore of what is present day texas, and i have heavy machinegunners and cavalry sweeping up south america. basically, they are getting slaughtered.

 

[marioh]

Yeah, I noticed with the Aztecs that they really are belligerent. My current game, they're halfway around the world from me on a different continent, way behind in the tech race, and still demand tribute from me, then declare war when I tell them to take a hike. I guess maybe their military is about the same size as mine, but it was still stupid considering I had MPP's with both of the Aztecs immediate neighbors (the Aztecs were doing this for years with me). Apparently, I wasn't the only civ that the Aztecs aggravated as within 15 turns, the Aztecs were at war with 8 of the remaining 10 civs.

 

[silver 2039]

The Aztec's have a high agression level.