Muslim Shrine graphics error

Should Firaxis replace the Masjid Al-Haram's graphic?

  • Yes, in the interest of accuracy, quality and religious sensitivity.

    Votes: 40 60.6%
  • It doesn't matter.

    Votes: 22 33.3%
  • No, this doesn't affect gameplay.

    Votes: 4 6.1%

  • Total voters
    66
A parallel discussion is currently going on in the Rhye's and Fall of Civilization mod forum. I made an important realization there, that I thought would be worthwhile to share and repost here. Below are my most recent comments in that thread:

Without getting into what Phallus has said (regarding the Danish cartoon controversy, where on some points we disagree), I'll respond to his last point.

"Alternatively, you can think for yourself and ask how any controversy could arise from what Stacmon has proposed."

This made clear to me the laughable situation that we're all in right now. Some are arguing about whether or not Muslims would take offense to the Masjid al-Haram being portrayed in this game.

In actual fact, it is already being portrayed in this game, and indignation would have come long ago. Since the building is named Masjid al-Haram and is clearly described as so in the Civilopedia, we basically have the Masjid al-Haram in Civilization IV. It is built in Mecca (in Rhye's and Fall of Civilization), is the Muslim holy shrine and is simply missing a proper graphic. If we saw a wonder called "the Space Elevator" which provided the benefit of increased space ship part construction, had a corresponding Civilopedia entry, but mistakenly sported the model of the Pyramids, we would know immediately that the model was used mistakenly.

The situation would have been completely different if the name was wrong while the Civilopedia had a description of the Dome of the Rock, which would have been completely consistent with the graphic.

So reformulated, Firaxis has already made a decision (long ago, during game development) to include the Masjid al-Haram in the game. They are taking no action not because a decision could be politically shaky (they've already taken that step) but instead because they don't think it's important enough or too much work. Islamic temples, mosques and monastaries have all been designed to be consistent with the texturing of the Dome of the Rock and a change may require them to redo all Islamic buildings. The simplest course of action (though not a solution) is to just avoid the topic entirely.
 
I'm Christian, but I have a lot of respect for other faiths.
But I do know that Jerusalem is a holy city for 3 religions, that all have very important buildings/shrines in that town: Judaism, Christianity and Islam. And all three shrines are represented in the game...

IMO the easiest solution would be renaming the holy shrine for Islam in the game to 'Dome of the Rock'.

Any further discussion about the faiths itself must be avoided, we all see each day how difficult it is to live together with different faiths in the place were these three shrines are built... Let us just prove that we can respectfully live together in our Civ-community.
 
There's no disagreement that Jerusalem is important to Muslims, but I feel it's "too easy" a solution just to rename the building (or to avoid doing anything). Mecca, Medina and Jerusalem are all very honoured in Islam and there are other cities that hold some significance.

The question we have to ask ourselves is, if this was being done from scratch, which shrine/city would be used to represent the Muslims? Based on the indications we have thus far, it seems clear that it would be the Masjid al-Haram. If something else is done, it's not because its preferred, but rather because its more convenient.
 
UPDATE: After about 4 days, I still haven't received any reply from Firaxis. I'm starting to think they just don't care :cry:.

I wouldn't expect a fast reply at this time. Look how long it took them to fix the Qin/Kublai swap. I'm certain you will get an answer, but it may take some time. They also won't be very enthusiastic about designing a new building from scratch, but I think there is a chance they'll do it.

Impatience or accusations about them preferring one religion over another won't help you with your task though.
 
Impatience or accusations about them preferring one religion over another won't help you with your task though.


When I said "I'm starting to think they don't care :cry:," I was saying this in a humorous manner not to manifest impatience. The purpose of that message was simply to say that I hadn't yet received a response and if it was serious, I wouldn't have used a smiley ;).

Just to clarify, I've tried to clearly say that I don't think Firaxis prefers one religion to another, but rather that they would be quicker to make a fix to an error affecting Christian religious buildings rather than Muslim, Hindu, etc. ones because of the game's demographics.
 
cheers for finding/fixing bugs/issues regardless where/what they're related to! more cheers for having some backbone, even if it's not popular with everyone. an instructional thread believe it or not..funny how we still learn things from issues that have been hashed out over and over.

one world-one civ.

wishing you all peace for the new year (assuming you're on my calendar..and even if you're not :) )
 
This kind of inaccuracy bugs Firaxis. If you're right about the graphical error, they'll fix it.

agreed! besides, they went thru all the trouble of making the religions equal so they could include an important aspect of civilization without offending anyone. they want us to enjoy these aspects of the game. i'm sure it's important to these guys to get it right for the fans as well. i mean seriously, who doesn't love it when Ghandi embraces his Jewish side..
 
Perhaps you could PM a Firaxian about this issue?
 
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