Must-built wonders per victory condition?
- Thread starter Matutin
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Deadstarre
Expert
pyramids, oracle, and terracotta army are the only things i end up getting every game for certain
pyramids because i can make a settler and continue to grow the capital early, the worker bonus translates into enormous gains for the rest of the game (unless you play small? but why would you)
terracotta army because it is a no-brainer for the amount it costs and what you can easily get back in return (if it gives 1 swordsman horseman and scout its like already paid for itself, on top of its other bonuses) - also because the AI seems to be refusing to built it right now, it is always available for quite some time (and the angkor wat- the AI just DOES NOT want the angkor wat right now they ignore it forever)
oracle is another thing the AI doesnt seem to be too interested in, which is fine for me because that social policy is a really big deal.
pyramids because i can make a settler and continue to grow the capital early, the worker bonus translates into enormous gains for the rest of the game (unless you play small? but why would you)
terracotta army because it is a no-brainer for the amount it costs and what you can easily get back in return (if it gives 1 swordsman horseman and scout its like already paid for itself, on top of its other bonuses) - also because the AI seems to be refusing to built it right now, it is always available for quite some time (and the angkor wat- the AI just DOES NOT want the angkor wat right now they ignore it forever)
oracle is another thing the AI doesnt seem to be too interested in, which is fine for me because that social policy is a really big deal.
I build oracle pretty much every game, its probably the best wonder in the game and the AI takes forever to build it.
Big Ben is really nice if you want a diplomatic victory, but other than that I don't think there really are any must build wonders for any win condition.
I never and Terracotta, imo not worth it because of risk of not building, also you need to go for bad techs to get Terracotta. Same with Pyramids with one exclusion - Tradition Venice. Great Library and Stonehenge are also awful.
Oracle is great in every game. So is Sistine and Eiffel Tower (except tourism, because it is on the other side of a tech tree)
Tourism is the victory that depends on Wonders more than others. Must-builds are Tower of Pizza and those that give you many Great Work Slots, like Uffizi, Louvre, Sistine (2 slots + 10% culture!), Broadway, Cristo Redentor.
Hanging Gardens, Sankore, Globe Theatre, Notre Dame are less important, but nice.
For Diplo Victory must-builds are Summer Palace and Big Ben, others are nice but not that important
I don't think that there are any must-builds for Scientific Victory, (even loosing Porcelain is not game-breaking), but many wonders are cool, like Oracle, Artemis, and others
Oracle is great in every game. So is Sistine and Eiffel Tower (except tourism, because it is on the other side of a tech tree)
Tourism is the victory that depends on Wonders more than others. Must-builds are Tower of Pizza and those that give you many Great Work Slots, like Uffizi, Louvre, Sistine (2 slots + 10% culture!), Broadway, Cristo Redentor.
Hanging Gardens, Sankore, Globe Theatre, Notre Dame are less important, but nice.
For Diplo Victory must-builds are Summer Palace and Big Ben, others are nice but not that important
I don't think that there are any must-builds for Scientific Victory, (even loosing Porcelain is not game-breaking), but many wonders are cool, like Oracle, Artemis, and others
CrabHelmet
King
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Stonehenge is not at all awful! A Stonehenge rush is more or less the only way to guarantee a religion on Deity without being a religious civ. That's huge! I'd have said Stonehenge was one of the best wonders.
CrabHelmet
King
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My personal opinions: I build Stonehenge almost every game I can unless I'm playing Spain or India or Ethiopia or one of the other religious Civs. The Pyramids are nice if you're not going Progress; if you are they're just a little redundant to my mind. The Temple of Artemis is great but I almost never beat the AI to it on Deity. Terracotta Army and Oracle are really good, if only because the AI takes a lot longer to build them than most wonders and you can normally snag both of them.
After that, there's a big period in the tech tree where, at least on Deity, it's almost impossible not to fall behind tech-wise for a bit, and so it's very hard getting the wonders in this period so I rarely get to explore them. If you beeline Angkor Wat, it synchronizes incredibly well with some Civs and Pantheons - Russia with Expanse, for example. The AI prioritizes military techs so I almost never get Colossus - very occasionally as England when you have the early spy and are focused on it. Parthenon is good but you have a choice between it and Oracle most times and Oracle is very obviously better, so I don't really build the Parthenon very often. The Forbidden Palace is really good if you can get it - the two-thirds plus of the AI go Authority in any given game, and almost all AI seem to go for the bottom row military techs before the top row ones, so you can get Forbidden Palace very often despite is falling in the 'tech-lag' period for players. Machu Picchu is also often free, if only because the AI didn't get the requisite mountains. Really strong as the Inca especially.
Later in the game, you'll have a more freedom to pick and choose and can go on a case by case basis.
After that, there's a big period in the tech tree where, at least on Deity, it's almost impossible not to fall behind tech-wise for a bit, and so it's very hard getting the wonders in this period so I rarely get to explore them. If you beeline Angkor Wat, it synchronizes incredibly well with some Civs and Pantheons - Russia with Expanse, for example. The AI prioritizes military techs so I almost never get Colossus - very occasionally as England when you have the early spy and are focused on it. Parthenon is good but you have a choice between it and Oracle most times and Oracle is very obviously better, so I don't really build the Parthenon very often. The Forbidden Palace is really good if you can get it - the two-thirds plus of the AI go Authority in any given game, and almost all AI seem to go for the bottom row military techs before the top row ones, so you can get Forbidden Palace very often despite is falling in the 'tech-lag' period for players. Machu Picchu is also often free, if only because the AI didn't get the requisite mountains. Really strong as the Inca especially.
Later in the game, you'll have a more freedom to pick and choose and can go on a case by case basis.
LukaSlovenia29
Emperor
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I think the AI needs to focus more on building the Oracle (I'd prefer this) or the Oracle needs to be nerfed, it's one of the few wonders I can often (easily) get on Immortal/Deity and the free policy/illiteracy reduction are a great combo that has few early wonders rivalling it.
It give only 2 faith per turn. You can build a settler instead and then build shrine in second city. It also grant pantheon, but building a wonder for 75 faith? I see it being okay, but the problem is that it increases costs of ALL future wonders. This is an awful downside.
+25% worker speed is pretty much nothing, you can always build 25% more workers. Free Settler is okay, but the risk is a problem/ If you want to get Pyramids - you need to rush Trade asap, cause Pyramids timing is turn40. If you didn't get them - you're screwed so much that i think its better not to take that risk
Don't overlook the engineer point. If you build stonehenge and you take Goddess of Beauty you can get a really high faith start on just one city (which has uses)
I'd say stonehenge is weakish, but its probably better for the first wonder to be weakish
Blue Ghost
King
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Masonry is a bad tech? I tend to pick it as my first classical tech, because watermills are so valuable.
Yes, but if you take Masonry before Philosophy - you are guaranteed loose Oracle. I usually go for Philosophy before Bronze Working
No you aren't, I've made that happen before. If your start wants masonry (because it has quarries or you want Mausoleum of Hali) and is on a river its a very natural path to take. Another nice thing is that Terracotta Army tends to go unclaimed for a while, which means you will pick up some CS quests for some extra faith
Also with the Pyramids, I recall that Deadstarre likes to play Ethiopia, and that extra tech early on makes early calendar more appealing. The main reason I don't go pyramids is just because I rarely take calendar early enough to securely grab it.
Deadstarre
Expert
yeah, suppose i should have mentioned that - I always use my first free tech (UA) for calendar. probably without that, pyramids is pretty hard to get. so nevermind them lol but if youre Ethiopia, do indeed
also, and i know this may sound like splitting a hair but it really isnt over the course of the game, more workers isnt exactly the same thing as faster workers - they can only improve one per tile no matter how many you have - and i want my luxuries connected quickly =) and maintenance fees...
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Legen
Emperor
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Actually, you can improve a tile quicker with multiple workers on it. Select a worker, order it to construct whatever you want, then cancel the order (manually or by ordering it to go to where it is). Then select the next worker. That worker will be able to construct and advance the improvement's countdown. You can have instant repairs and 2-turn luxuries on 11-countdown jungle luxury tiles with enough workers this way, and they're easy to protect with a single military unit. Quite a big deal for Brazil and Maya, who have a powerful Ancient era UI.
It's a lot of micro, though, to the point of being bothersome. I never see the AI doing it either, so it's one of those things that only the player can exploit.
Deadstarre
Expert
I do this sometimes. Sshhhhhhhh though, if you tell G he might remove it
Bascule2000
Warlord
- Joined
- Aug 8, 2017
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Terracotta is amazing. The free units can be good, depending on what you've got, but the increase in unit cap is incredible.
It is! If I ever vanquish my love for Philosophy perhaps I'll get to build Terracotta...
