My banning was unfair

[Graeme the mad]

Okay ive been banned a number of times now and I understnad that sometimes I can be a right idiot.
However, just when I was beginning to believe that AoA didn't just hate me and was a fair mod I got banned again. Lets see what I got banned for. First of all it seemed to be because I posted this in my religion thread replying to AoA's point that Men do things not faith and so therefore there is no reson to get on a high horse about faith.

I pointed out that

Ahh yes men did those things however religion helped them happen. What you are saying is that people should be allowed to hold whatever believes they want

'The whole point of faith is believeing in things that can't be proved in our world.'

Such as for instance that Jews are a parasite on the face of humanity and should be wiped off?

Now that is a belief which you try to stop - correct?

Men do things because of racist beliefs - are you saying the beliefs should be allowed - no, that is why I feel fine about getting on my horse about rotten things done in the name of religion - removing religion is one more step in the advancment of humanity (and we really have come a long way - socially as well as technologically)

Okay? - Im pointing out how some beliefs are wanted to be stopped and therefore his hypocrisy.

He told me to change the example and I pointed out that Nazism is unproved anbd it is one of the only examples of faith which I think everybody will want to stop.


For this I get banned (sort of): So basically I appear to have been banned for making a valid argument that AoA has made a hypocritical statement - WTH??????

However it gets better because later on in the thread AoA syas I was in fact banned for this:

Greame is banned for one week, as will be anyone else who tries to start another Arab/isreali war.

Now i got really angry. First and most importantly at no point did I say this - I have been banned for something I did not do!
I am really furious at that.

And I am even more annoyed that what AoA says is a lie - completley. - I was banned for starting an arab Israeli war - which I did not do however Other people who definetley are guilty of this do not get banned:

Quote from Sh3Kel

'understanding for the suicide bombers! Understanding?'

Quote from rmsharpe

'Maybe Israeli air forces should begin carpet-bombing "civilian areas" and give them a taste of their own medicine. '

Quote from starlifter

'The PLO and many Palestinians revel in war, and want it. Grant them their wish... until their unconditional and total surrender... '

Now if they arent starting an arab Israeli war especially the last one I dont know what is

But of course I know that AoA just plain despises me and whether he is completley hypocritical or not dont really bother him

By the way the thread i was banned in is here:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=24797&perpage=20&display=&pagenumber=1

 

[Juize]

'Bye Graeme. See you in two weeks.

 

[starlifter]

Since you used an example with my name, I will post my thought on this matter you have with AoA, which is probably better off handled through PM with him in the first place.

I read the link you provided.

1. You posted something
2. The mod (AoA) warned you about what you did and how to fix it.
3. You defied the mod, and posted an inflammatory reply right to the mod.
4. The mod banned you.

Recapping your exchange:

1. You: "... Jews are a parasite on the face of humanity and should be wiped off?"
2. AoA: "I think you better edit that and use a different example, or we won't be seeing you for quite awhile."
3. you: "Listen AoA I will not because of this point: NAZISM IS A BELIEF UNPROVED SO IS RELIGION"
4. AoA: "Adios sonny, I have had enough of rebels this week."


Using a Poker analogy, you put some money in the pot. the stakes were upped. You responded by upping the ante. The cards you held were the Dead man's hand (aces and eights). You were called. Your opponent had a Royal Flush. You lost .

As Kenny Rodgers once said in his song, The Gambler..... "You got to know when to hold 'em, you got to know when to fold 'em."


As for my posts you reference, you will not find that they blindly attack or assault any race, and the target of military actions, like Wiping out the PLO, is a fully developed thought in each post. You are free to disagree with it and have your own opinion, of course.

As you must know, your statement about the Israelis being a blight on the face of humanity, or whatever, is an interjected and undveloped line of thought with no attempt to substantiate its viability. It appears to me to be nothing more than race-baiting because in fact there is no foundation, in your post or in rational though, for such a statement.

But if you reread the exchange between yourself and AoA, you will find that he did not ban you for your statement... he gave you a chance to change it and even told you how to do it. Then you threw it in his face. Hmmm....... With that poker hand, you didn't really even have the dead man's hand.... you had nothing at all.

So since you compare your statement baiting Jews to my own fully developed reasons for ending a war the Palestinians started (declaring war on Israel), I'll just say that the comparison is deliberately out of context to help you whine about your insult to AoA in public.


The context of my statement, and it's full post & location, were not referenced by you as carefully as you tried to spin your own case. My context, in a long post with a developed opinion, was this:

...
Let us all remember, war is horrific... that is what makes war something to be avoided. By its nature, war is the ultimate savagery of man vs. man. Until those like the PLO and majority of Palestinians give up their war and live peacefully, they must be dealt with on the basis of the war that they declare and/or fight.

The PLO and many Palestinians revel in war, and want it. Grant them their wish... until their unconditional and total surrender... and retraction of their war, warlike behavior, and warlike educational system for the Palestinian children. And expel any surviving non-peaceful people from the lands of Israel forever.
...

My entire post which you convieneintly omitted is located here .

But of course I know that AoA just plain despises me and whether he is completley hypocritical or not dont really bother him

I got no idea how AoA is in real life, but from what I've seen of his posts, he gives people more warning than they really need at times. You're no stranger to being banned, and you know AoA better than most of us because of your dealings with him. Why not just listen to what he says, follow his rules, and get along? You certainly don't need to start an entire thread about your disagreements. Use PM is my input.

Well, that concludes my opening statement (to paraphase a line from "And Justice For All....).

Next time quote me in context, or move along to the next post, please. Thank you.

PS, AoA can feel free to delete/edit/modify this post if I've put too many words in his mouth. But since my name was inserted (and out of context, at that) into this dispute as a basis of justification of a poster/mod dispute, I decided to avail myself the opportunity to expound. I'll leave it off at the "opening statement", LOL

 

[starlifter]

Extra PS to Graeme: Even if a mod "hates" you (which the exchage clearly contradicts), it is pointless to whine in public about it. Last I checked, the resolution is not up to a vote from CFC members. I just took a look to make sure nothing had changed, and I was right... this is still a BBS run by TF and his mods, and posting here is a voluntary endeavor.

PS#3: I'm not mad at you, but I don't expect to see you quoting me out of context in what should be your own private discussion with the CFC staff. In private with them, feel free to cuss or discuss my posts... or simply state your own rationally developed response to a post in the correct thread. It need not even agree with my own thoughts or postion, .

PS#4: You committed a grave logic error as the basis of this thread you began. Presuming (hypothetically mind you) that you could cite 2 or 6 or 20 posts that were treated differently than yours (and further hypothetically presuming those posts were "bad" as you assert), then that is still no basis for relief of your own "bad" post(s).

If you don't understand logic or what I'm explaining.... let's put it this way. Assume you commit a crime, let's say speeding. There were 20 cars speeding and you got caught, picked out from the group by the police. You go to court. Against the advice of your barrister, you plead to the judge "But Judge! Other people were speeding too! I'm guilty as homemade sin, but they are too! So I let me off the hook!!" You'd still be complaining as the judge slammed the gavel down and said "Guilty as charged. Step outside and pay the cashier."

 

[Eklektikos]

So since you compare your statement baiting Jews to my own fully developed reasons for ending a war the Palestinians started (declaring war on Israel), I'll just say that the comparison is deliberately out of context to help you whine about your insult to AoA in public.

Actually, when I read Graeme's post I didn't read it as Jew baiting at all. It seemed to me that he was using that statement "Jews are a parasite on the face of humanity and should be wiped off" as an example of unproven beliefs that he believes should be challenged.

 

[starlifter]

I read Graeme's post I didn't read it as Jew baiting at all.

I respect that interpretation. It can easily be taken in other ways too. But the crux of the matter is that it disagreed with by a mod (who happened to be AoA), and the mod warned, Graeme escalated, was banned, then started a pointless thread sucking others into it also. It seems pretty cut and dry to me... don't insult a mod when you are specifically warned what not to do. Whether or not Graeme actually intended to bait is actually irrelevant.... Graeme's reply in public to AoA was outright defiance, and Graeme took a stand based on his view of what should guide his principles. That's fine and dandy... he knew what was coming. But then posting another thread whining about it, and drawing other posters into it is pretty cheesy.

PS, The reason it is Jew Baiting is that his example was not necessary to the arguement he was originally attempting to make. The discussion was about Religion, and the whole Jew example came out of the blue and was IMHO just trolling for a series of posts objecting to it.

Be that as it may, the opinion that counts, AoA, said to pick a different example (as anyone can see). When Graeme elevated it, he got the ban he knew was coming. Which is fine. He did the time. It should be over, not regurgitated in a new thread with completely unrelated posts distracting from the real issue.... refusing a direct warning from the mod.

 

[Graeme the mad]

Starlifter that you accuse me of quoting you out of context is funny when you say this

1. You: "... Jews are a parasite on the face of humanity and should be wiped off?"

Read what I said - I said this is a believe we want to wipe out.
I say this is a bad belief!!!! - this is why im annoyed - you have taken me out of context.

I didn't really take you out of context - you suggest that

'The PLO and many Palestinians revel in war, and want it. Grant them their wish... until their unconditional and total surrender... '

This is what you belief, however you dont get banned for saying this despite the fact it is, taken in context -

'trying to start another Arab/isreali war.'

Are you denying this - no? Therefore according to what AoA said you shoudl be banned.

In response to PS4 - There are two points about why im annoyed at my banning - firstly there is the point about the fact I did not JEw bait or anything of the sort and made what I believe a personally reasonable statement.

Then second there is the point of hypocrisoy on AoA 's point - I am in a sense complaining about people who have tried to start another arab-Israeli war but giving them a chance to respond before they are banned.

I have started this thread to complain about the banning as is a right we were given back a while ago so that people have the ability to argue it just like you have.

 

[Dell19]

Life isn't fair, look how England have been knocked out of the world cup

 

[starlifter]

First, I'm not mad at you. Second, My post talks about how to end a war. If the leaders of Israel and America (and Arab nations for that matter) listened to me (they don't), then there would be peace in the Middle East, a peaceful (but significantly less populated) Palestinian state, security for all, and Prosperity and honor for all nations over there...



by Graeme:

'trying to start another Arab/isreali war.'

Are you denying this - no? Therefore according to what AoA said you shoudl be banned.

Correction... First, you are not AoA. Second, you were warned for one line in a specific post. you were not told to retract your beliefs or opinions. Third, I explained (and continue to explain) a logical war to end a war chosen by the PLO that is already underway against Israel. Right now, the war is one-sided... the PLO is out to destroy the only Jewish nation. The PLO has declared war; Israel has not. The Israeli response should therefore be ... read my posts.

But we digress from the issue, which I'll point out one last time for you... well, I won't repeat it all again. Reread steps 1 thru 4 in my 1st post. All that was your own doing, and you knew what the result would be. But now you're back in this thread claiming (incorrectly, I might add) that "What Graeme did was wrong, but others might have done something wrong, so don't punish me." Well, you're wrong on both counts.

You simply need to discuss it all with those that you have the issue with... in Private. Quit trying to obfuscate the issue. You were doing fine standing up for your own particular principles.... until you started whining in this thread. Were it my own BBS, you'd conform or hit the bricks. Your method of complaining about an injustice you feel you have received is being made in the wrong manner.

firstly there is the point about the fact I did not JEw bait or anything of the sort and made what I believe a personally reasonable statement.

FWIW, I respect you view that you don't believe it was baiting. However, it was. From my view, and I explained to you just why earlier. But my opinion does not matter. AoA clearly told you to change the example, and you said no, and upped the ante by talking about Nazis. If AoA was out to get you, he'd have banned you right away.

Okay ive been banned a number of times now and I understnad that sometimes I can be a right idiot

Hmmmm.... recognize those words?Try finding a blackboard and a piece of chalk and writing that about 100 times .

If you have a history of banning, I'm surprised you got a warning (I have no idea, and don't want to know).

Well, that's my input to you. I'll sign off and just suggest you talk with those who make the decisions.... if you want to denegrate yourself after you served your "time", go right ahead.... but I'm sure the rest of us would like to be left out.

Argue your own case on your own merits, and accept responsibility for your choices.



PS, Stand up for what you believe, but don't shrink from your own actions. When you're overruled, like happened, accept it and move on. Don't come back after you made your choice (to defy a mod like that) and denegrate yourself by whining. Take responsibility. Don't go hunting for a Mod... do something positive with your posts.

 

[Alcibiaties of Athenae]

Answer is easy Greame, when you recieve a mod instruction, comply or die.

Simple as that.

And you have used up your warnings, from this point, every time you break a rule, it's in the box for you.

I have a five year old, I don't need another on the net.

Starlifter: Your summary of the situation is correct, if lengthy.

 

[floppa21]

Originally posted by Alcibiaties of Athenae
I have a five year old, I don't need another on the net.

How old you is AOA?

 

[Alcibiaties of Athenae]

My profile displays that clearly, 39.

 

[Juize]

It's very simple, really. If you disagree with a mod, you're against the mod.
If you point out a mistake of mod, you're against the mod. Read the rules Graeme.
The MOD decides who have broken the rules, not YOU.

I now presume he's again banned.

 

[Graeme the mad]

'Answer is easy Greame, when you recieve a mod instruction, comply or die.'

Fine AoA thank you for making it clear but then why the comment about the Arab Israeli war and saying any one else whos starts one will be banned - is this wrong?

 

[Alcibiaties of Athenae]

You, like many others, seem to think I have to explain every little thing.

TF is who I answer too, and that is all.

If you don't like a moderator decision, you can appeal to him, if he agrees with you, that mod decision gets changed.

That is the ONLY appeal at CFC.

I don't have the time or inclination to worry about crybabies, the rules are simple, be polite or be gone.

Go plays rules lawyer elsewhere Greame, nobody is biting here.

 

[Kefka]

Graeme what exactly did you expect to happen when you posted this?
I mean your already back and your ban has already happened AOA can't go back in time and unban you (wait or can he?) oh well it wont matter anyway cause even if he did we on this time track would not notice as AOA would of went off on another time track were he did not ban Graeme so nothing would have been acomplished.
anyway what I am trying to say is just let dead fish be, no wait its let sleeping dogs lie, no mabey its let dead dead dogs sleep no let sleeping fish lie. no I think I was right the first two times.

 

[andycapp]

You're lucky I'm not a mod, I'd have given you a good cyber whack behind the ears - and enjoyed doing it!

 

[Juize]

I don't have the time or inclination to worry about crybabies, the rules are simple, be polite or be gone.

A polite notice: Graeme has been definetly very polite to you.
You should read the thread again and watch who has offended who.

 

[Pellaken]

Originally posted by Juize


A polite notice: Graeme has been definetly very polite to you.
You should read the thread again and watch who has offended who.

actually, Juize, read AoA's post again, and it basacally says "I do what I feel like, if I decide not to like you, your gone"
so I wouldent piss him off.

 

[Pellaken]

post edited out