My Calabim Guide

[Gamestation]

so the result is, nealhunt, from not being able to build elder council for +2 beakers and 1 sage (3 beakers):

sages dont come fast...u have to wait till writing and build libraries for only 1 sage (3 beakers) or until certain religions' temples allowing for 1 sage (3 beakers)

The calabim is runner up for having the worse science rate/beakers after the clan being the leaders in lack of beakers/science rate

Doing farms doesnt help with beakers until u get COL and aris civic ..and still +2 commerce per farm doesnt do much for your already low amount of beakers

Anyone try getting great merchants first then? Think of what you could do with 6 extra gold in the beginning of the game. You could probably spread like a plague instead to get your commerce, and you could afford to because you are running merchants and settling great merchants. You even get 1 extra food to boot! Surely that doesn't sound like a terrible idea. I haven't tried it myself yet though.

 

[Grey Fox]

Great Merchants are great, and I haven't tried it yet, but it should work good.
4 of them in a city would mean +24 Gold (before % bonuses even) and +4 food.

Don't know if it helps much in the very early game tho (pre-religions), like a sage do. Also, an early Academy in the capital is 50% more beakers for a big part of the game.

 

[hegemonkhan]

delected by me

 

[hegemonkhan]

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[Grey Fox]

I'm sure u can I'm still very noob.

I'm not saying alexis is any better than flauros. I'm just pointing out there's more synergies with farms-alexis phil trait-slavery civic-vamps-specialists-etc.
however,farms also have more problems to deal with and is more complicated and needs more micromanagement than a cotage economy with flauros

You are forgetting that farms in aristocracy gets +1 commerce with Flauros, as they start with 2. So all farms with Flauros are +3 or +4 commerce (if next to river)

And you need Animal husbandry anyways for vamps, Feudalism requires Trade, and trade requires Horseback Riding, and Horseback riding requires Animal Husbandry.

 

[hegemonkhan]

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[hegemonkhan]

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[Grey Fox]

true flaoros will give +1 commerce to your +2 commerce farms with aris civic, but id rather use cotages with flaoros getting +` commerce on my ~7 commerce cotages for 8 commerce than only +1 commerce on 2 commerce aris farms for only 3 commerce.......8 commerce is better than 3 commerce per tile

if your doing farms I dont see the point in using flauros over alexis

If you want more commerce u'd do cotages and use flauros

If you got 10 tiles with towns producing 8 instead of 7 commerce with Flauros. You get a total of +10 commerce from his bonus.

If you have a 10 tiles with Farms, producing 3 instead of 2 commerce with Flauros. You get a total of +10 commerce from his bonus.

 

[hegemonkhan]

delected by me

 

[BCalchet]

It's just you. The point is, financial is just as good on farms producing 2 commerce as on grown cottages producing 7: In either case, it's +1 per tile. (In fact, it could be argued that it's much better on the 2 commerce farm, where it adds 50%, as opposed to ~14% on the cottage)

 

[Nikis-Knight]

He's just saying financial trait is as useful with astocratic farms as it is with hamlets. Even if you go farms because you want food more than money, the extra money from the trait is still very helpful.

 

[hegemonkhan]

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[hegemonkhan]

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[Ringtailed]

As politely as i can, would you please improve your reading skills so I don't have to double post the same thing because you can't read very well. It's really irritating.

I don't think anyone here is having any problems with reading. Please don't attack your fellow posters, it's just not constructive.

The point that other people are making is that +1 commerce is +1 commerce. It doesn't matter if the tile is producing 2 commerce, or 7 commerce, or 10 million commerce. +1 commerce is still one extra unit. You don't need to go 100% cottages to benefit from receiving an extra point of commerce, the bonus is the same either way.

Who the better leader for farm spamming is, is a matter of discussion... but the point is that the financial trait is still fully functioning and helping you regardless of whether you use towns or farms.

 

[BCalchet]

I love your rationale with the statistics

Let me give you an analogy of your logic in the statistics:

the first person is infected with HIV-AIDS virus. If you kill the person, you just killed 100% of all people infected. THAT'S BAD....100% !!!! ONE PERSON..

now lets let HIV-AIDS spread and now we have a billion people infected. But, now we only kill a 1 million people infected...only a million poeple.......THAT'S good! It's only 1/1000 or 0.001 %. We r only killing 1% of the people infected compared to 100% people infected...ya ..thats good..rationale you have.....

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your stats r right but ur 50% means nothing in the game. 8 commerce vs 3-4 commerce DOES mean something in the game

<removed>

I'm not arguing that 3 or 4 commerce is more than 8, as you seem to believe. I'm saying that the bonus from financial is identical for tiles with more than one commerce, no matter how much additional commerce that tile produces.

A financial leader does not get a bigger bonus from his financial trait with cottages than with aristocracy farms - in fact, someone with all their commerce coming from 7-commerce cottage tiles will get roughly 14% bonus commerce from the financial trait, while someone relying only on 2-commerce farms with aristocracy will get a 50% bonus from the financial trait.

<removed>
Moderator Action: Flaming - warned.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[hegemonkhan]

delected by me

 

[hegemonkhan]

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[BCalchet]

Really. If you want people to read what you write carefully, take the extra few seconds and use something resembling the English language - I know you're capable of, at the very least, spelling 'you' and 'are'.

If you don't feel the point you're trying to make is important enough to present it clearly, why should anyone else even think it important enough to read it?

Even so, if I understand that poor butchered language of yours properly, you consider a 7->8 commerce boost better than 3->4 - and I really can't see how that works. I can't help but feel you somehow consider "the more you have, the more you need" somehow applies to commerce and/or beakers, and, well... it makes no sense!

(Note that I'm using beakers and commerce assuming a 100&#37; ratio between the two in the following example.)

Let's take a small empire bringing in 35 beakers per turn, from five tiles with 7 commerce. This has a 200-beaker tech taking six turns to research.

If we add 5 beakers due to the financial trait, we end up at 40. The tech now takes five turns - a turn earlier! Great!

Next, let's use an aristocratic farm-empire of the same diminutive size. It brings in a pitiful 15 beakers per turn, from five riverside farms of 3 commerce each. This empire needs 14 turns to research the tech above.

We add financial, again with five beakers as a result. With 20 beakers, the tech takes 10 turns to research. Wow, four turns earlier!

Here, we see that the farming aristocrats gained more from the financial traits: They cut a flat 4 turns of the tech, where the cottagers cut only one turn - adding a flat number of beakers is much more useful for those who don't make as many.

While that was a simplified example, nowhere near the complexity of the actual game, it still illustrates the fact that financial does more to help those with lower commerce gains, as long as those are above the threshold of 2 for a tile.
If you'd like to explain under what circumstances the 7-commerce-cottage-user would gain a larger benefit from the trait than the farmer, I'd love to hear it.

Bear in mind that I've said nothing on the farms-vs-cottages issue - it might well be true that going for cottages is a better idea as a financial leader, in the end. (A mix of the two might be optimal, I imagine.)

 

[Blakmane]

Really IMO the issue is, what's better?

8 commerce from towns, or 4 food plus 3 commerce from farms.

personally I reckon the farms. now that there's +1 hammer per unhappy person for calabim, Growth is no longer such an issue.

*edit*

Might also be worth mentioning that sacrifice the weak civic has a -50&#37; great person penalty attached. Therefore the ashen veil is really only a good civ for flauros- it has anti-synergy with alexis.

 

[hegemonkhan]

delected by me