My favorite use for Great Generals

[xanadux]

Now that the 3.13 patch allows blitz for naval units, attaching a GG to a ship is both great fun and a strong military tactic.

In my current game, I'm playing at monarch to get a better feel for the new patch (so far I don't really notice much difference except the AI does seem to tech better). Played a standard size shuffle map with random leader and drew Gilgamesh and an archipelago. I had stone, decent production and good food in the capital, and went with a wonder spam/settled specialist economy with Great Lighthouse and Colossus for a little bonus commerce. I used one of my favorite tech tactics for this kind of game, and after Civil Service, beelined to chemistry then got phi/paper/edu/liberalism and took astronomy to open up privateers and frigates. Built a dozen or so privateers to generate a great general, then attached him to a frigate, taking leadership, combat 3 and blitz for promotions (was built with 6 exp ... drydocks + theocracy).

Been at war with someone ever since, primarily naval battles. My next beeline was to combustion to upgrade my Cao Cao (the great general) to a destroyer. I first took drill 1-4 then went back and promoted to combat 6. It's about 1890 and Cao Cao is just shy of 170 exp for level 14. 3-6 first strikes, +75% strength, +10% healing, -60% collateral damage, double exp gained. He's killed as many as 5 enemy boats in a turn, and hasn't taken a scratch against frigates and caravels for the last 40 battles or so. Lizzy has just finished combustion and hooked up oil, so I'll soon get to see how he does against other destroyers. I'm thinking odds should still be about 99% ... Cao Cao against a combat 2 destroyer should be almost exactly the same as a drill4 privateer against a galleon which IIRC is 98.6 or 99.2%. I'm thinking the next promotions should be tactics and flanking 1 and 2 to cut the chance of dying in half.

Aside from the fun factor, I can see several advantages to this ...

Can get away with a few less ships. The GG ship gets damaged less and can kill as many ships as it can reach.

If the GG ship is in range, can take out many ships in an enemy sneak attack in one turn.

If the game gets to the point that the enemy is fielding destroyers, rather than losing a ship for every 2-3 killed, the GG ship, if it has gotten to combat 6, should survive dozens of battles, and once upgraded to a missile ship, should have 99% odds against any ship the AI can throw at it.



Better than an academy? Maybe not, but definitely more fun.

 

[6K Man]

Blitz on ships? Niiiice.

The only downside I can see is that many of us would be really pissed off if that uber-destroyer were to fall victim to the 1 in 1000 chance of dying. I have heard that does occasionally happen...

 

[Airefuego]

Awesome. Not a bad choice on archipelagic maps.

Does the power graph take notice of uber-promoted GG units? This one alone should be worth a decent tick on the graph.

 

[troytheface]

It'd be interesting if the AI would great general a ship.
It would set up a "sink the bismark!" mentality to catch that ol boat.
Interesting post - however, having any destroyer when the AI still only has frigates is a slaughter.
To bad you can't attach a great artist to an ICBM. Slim Pickens

 

[Civman123]

Blitz on ships? Niiiice.

The only downside I can see is that many of us would be really pissed off if that uber-destroyer were to fall victim to the 1 in 1000 chance of dying. I have heard that does occasionally happen...

Yeah 1 in 1000 times lol.

 

[LlamaCat]

it somehow never occurs to me that you can attach great generals to naval units, I will have to remember this next time ...

 

[xanadux]

I was thinking today about whether it would be a good idea to attach the GG to a privateer. The only advantage I see is you can start getting him exp even when you don't want a war yet. But there is a drawbacks ...

Privateers upgrade to destroyers, so as soon as the AI get frigates, your GG has to run and hide and hope to survive (I guess you could put him in the middle of a ring of frigates for protection) until you get combustion and oil.

If you are getting your first GG from privateers, then the age of privateers will be that much closer to over. I think I would prefer to just start a naval war.

If I did put a GG on a privateer, I think I would start with drill4 + leadership rather than combat 3 +blitz + leadership. I'm pretty sure up to combat 1 a privateer still gets 2 exp from killing a caravel. But a combat 3 privateer against caravels will still usually get injured while a drill4 privateer often doesn't get hurt. There is no point to having blitz if you usually get hurt after the first battle anyway. I don't like risking a GG unit with less than about 98% odds. With drill4, you get more exp than combat 3 (exp is based on strength difference, not combat odds), and should be able to fight more battles than with combat 3 and blitz. By the time you are upgrading to a destroyer, should be pretty close to having the blitz promotion.

I think this is the most useful way to use a GG for a fighting unit. Usually, I think a GG is much better used as a medic 3 unit, instructor, or academy than an uber-land unit. Sea units are different IMO for at least 3 reasons ...

1. Sea units get a lot more movement points, so with blitz, can really rack up the exps.

2. A more advanced sea unit has a devastating advantage over earlier units. Privateers and Frigates crush Caravels. Destroyers crush Frigates. Battleships crush Destroyers (but not as much as the other 2 jumps). This means beelining a key naval tech can give a massive (99%+) advantage over the AI for a long time ... even approaching 100 turns. Land units have a much more gradual increase in strength.

3. You can often fight a naval war to get exp with little risk. Once one has naval superiority, it is quite easy to maintain as long as the AI doesn't get a more advanced unit first. This is even more true with a naval tech advantage. Even if the AI is overall more advanced, if you have Destroyers, and they have frigates, a GG destroyer can potentially wipe out an invading stack of 6 frigates and 6 galleons in 2 turns before the AI can even land the forces.

 

[r_rolo1]

I already used a naval GG once or twice ( mainly Flanking + barrage lines to soften task forces ) in Warlords, but in BtS it really bumps a level up in terms of utility, mainly because it is easier to get the necessary Xp for the GG.... and, of course, the Blitz promo with 3.13....

 

[Hawaiian]

I was thinking today about whether it would be a good idea to attach the GG to a privateer. The only advantage I see is you can start getting him exp even when you don't want a war yet. But there is a drawbacks ...

Privateers upgrade to destroyers, so as soon as the AI get frigates, your GG has to run and hide and hope to survive (I guess you could put him in the middle of a ring of frigates for protection) until you get combustion and oil.

If you are getting your first GG from privateers, then the age of privateers will be that much closer to over. I think I would prefer to just start a naval war.

Exactly what you said is almost exactly what I did in one game. Got a privateer and attached GG. Leadership and Drill and Blitz all the way. Massacred tons of caravels and the like. I had him cavort around with about 3 other privateers for emergency defense, just in case he might be overpowered after an attack. Picked on easy prey, too. Once enemy AIs attained frigates, I had to rush him back to port for awhile. Finally the day arrived when I could become a destroyer. Soon, I was the most feared beast in the ocean.

It worked well and made a big difference in control of the oceans.

On a side note, my early privateer horde was so beastly, that I completely blockaded the 2nd place AI and his whole continent down to an economic crawl, dropping him 3 spots on the scorelist. It was extremely fun.

 

[KMadCandy]

I was thinking today about whether it would be a good idea to attach the GG to a privateer. The only advantage I see is you can start getting him exp even when you don't want a war yet. But there is a drawbacks ...

If you are getting your first GG from privateers, then the age of privateers will be that much closer to over. I think I would prefer to just start a naval war.

If I did put a GG on a privateer, I think I would start with drill4 + leadership rather than combat 3 +blitz + leadership.

yeah i like the "earn GG exp during peacetime" thing. i'm not usually the "all war all the time" type, it makes me nervous. war is dangerous you know. that's why i love adore cherish idolize privateers. drill4 totally rocks on those guys. but boy howdy, once the AI has frigates they will chase down my privateers to alpha centauri and back, so i have to scoot the nice upgraded ones home very carefully until i can upgrade them! if i attach a GG to one he always brings an entourage.

if i do try one of my "i really will make myself go to war this time, really really i will" games soon, i'll try that frigate thing. sounds nifty. i love that you got Cao Cao, he has my favorite GG name. i can't bear to ever use him for an academy or MI, i have to attach him. yes things like this are why i'm a permanoob, but i can't help it.

one pre-patch BtS game i got at least 3 non-imperialistic GGs from privateers before i ever had a war . one AI knew chemistry and another knew astro but they kept researching other things rather than the combo, and they didn't trade them to each other, lucky me. i really do think i need privateers anonymous. yarrrrrrrrrr!

3. You can often fight a naval war to get exp with little risk. Once one has naval superiority, it is quite easy to maintain as long as the AI doesn't get a more advanced unit first. This is even more true with a naval tech advantage. Even if the AI is overall more advanced, if you have Destroyers, and they have frigates, a GG destroyer can potentially wipe out an invading stack of 6 frigates and 6 galleons in 2 turns before the AI can even land the forces.

really? it's not as dangerous as i think? i may have to try a water-heavy map soon. thanks for giving me the ideas

 

[troytheface]

Yes, i have a frigate waiting to upgrade based on what i read in this thread.
Revitalized the navy a bit. (Also i did not go for sea rech so that element will be missing- which could be crucial)
I liked someone elses idea (the AI's?) to scout with work boats early as well.
Next question (next game?) is should you try for an early gg and attach it to a Trireme ( keeping with the theory of a super boat ruleing the seas from the get go)

 

[Diamondeye]

That is SO overpowered - I've planned on doin it for a while... One hint; Flanking II makes the unit immune to first strikes. Be sure to grab that promo and you'll be nearly invulnerable. with a couple of medic promotions - if you get that far - it'd be a sick onemanarmy.
Oh, and 10 moves per turn, Drill IV + Blitz, against a non-oil civ = 10 xp per turn. Send a privateer against them and they'll start caravel spamming. Then go into action and beat up the enemy fleet!

 

[Giaur]

I never had fun with Privateers - They are too weak, but Leadership, Combat6 privateer could be fun. Also destroyers are very expensive (200 hammers), so upgrading caravel to destroyer could harm your budget. Ubership could be the solution.

btw. Can navy be promoted to medic3? If yes, can it heal ground units (marines f.e.)?

 

[dermoth]

Good grief, what an absolutely fantastic idea.

*beelines to combustion*

 

[KMadCandy]

i'm not ingame but the pdf reference i'm looking at lists Naval units as eligible for Medic3.

Any ships (including transport ships) with Medic I will heal eligible units in their cargo or on the same tile.
A medic unit can heal land, air and naval units.

If a Medic II ship is in port, it can heal lands units beside it, but not if it is just sitting on the coast somewhere.

Ships with Medic II can heal units in ships that are adjacent. Units in the cargo of a ship with Medic II can heal adjacent ships and units in adjacent ships.

To make this a lot simpler, I have added this comment to the Medics section in the article:
IMPORTANT NOTE: Units with Medic II cannot heal units across a land/sea boundary. Ships in port are considered to be on the land side of the land/sea boundary.

my War Academy source

something i'd forgotten: when you have combat 4 you heal faster in neutral and friendly territory than in your own

 

[xanadux]

So if I have a transport ship with a medic 3 unit on it, my navy gets medic 3 bonuses?

 

[KMadCandy]

looks like it, with that land/sea boundary clause. if you're all out in the water, you're covered. if you're in port, only the ships in port with the medic are covered, but units on land tiles adjacent would be covered too on those turns.

i'd probably test it in WB before using a GG for a dedicated navy healing fisherman.

 

[TheRisen1]

Anyone know if you can attach GGs to air units?

 

[InFlux5]

looks like it, with that land/sea boundary clause. if you're all out in the water, you're covered. if you're in port, only the ships in port with the medic are covered, but units on land tiles adjacent would be covered too on those turns.

i'd probably test it in WB before using a GG for a dedicated navy healing fisherman.

So a medic ship won't heal units in a city, but will heal them if they're on board and out to sea?

 

[KMadCandy]

if a ship is in the city and has medic1, it'll heal units (land/sea/air) in the city (whether they're on board or just sitting in the city). i just mentioned ships since xanadux asked about navy.

if it's in the city and has medic 1 and medic2, it'll heal units (land/sea/air) in the city, and land units adjacent to the city, but not ships adjacent to the city because it can't cross the land/sea barrier.

if it has medic 2 but not medic 1 (which is only possible via WB ), it'll heal land units adjacent to the city but not heal anything in the city, including itself.

that link explains a ton about healing. note that the link mentions the ships but isn't written specifically for them so a test really might not be a bad idea.