I'm starting to actually like your position more, though it's hard for me to tell what sort of challenges exist outside of the Ottomans; you've spent so long on them that I need a better measuring stick, as much as you're appearing stronger.
My Huge Sid Milk Run
- Thread starter Chamnix
- Start date
Yeah, I'm definitely content with the way the Ottoman war has gone the last few turns - I no longer view them as much of a threat.
The Russians are very scary now - they have over 50 cities, and they are Communist, and Nationalism was not their free Industrial Age tech. The Aztecs also have over 50 cities, but they are not Industrial yet.
I'm sending some armies over to Russia now to pillage and also to capture the Great Library in Moscow.
The Russians are very scary now - they have over 50 cities, and they are Communist, and Nationalism was not their free Industrial Age tech. The Aztecs also have over 50 cities, but they are not Industrial yet.
I'm sending some armies over to Russia now to pillage and also to capture the Great Library in Moscow.
Just 1 turn this time since they are about 1 hour each now...
IBT – The Ottomans still have a decent number of knights coming my way seen by my armies on their way to Russia (15 in one stack). The first Russian boats come into view on my east coast, but they have a long way to travel to get around the worker wall. I get my first cultural expansions from the Temple of Artemis.
730 AD – Second attempt at Karabuk – there are only 4 rifles now. I still don’t redline them all, but I kill the top ones with cavalry armies to expose the redlined ones to conventional units. Copernicus’ Observatory is not enough to make me let it stand.
The northern bombardment stack mostly takes a turn off to heal some units, but the bombardment itself keeps moving forward under the army – the horses can catch up next turn.
I raze my first Aztec city as Umtata falls to an army after I lost 2 cavalry.
I can’t starve JS Bachs anymore with the resisters there, so I throw a few veteran mounted warriors in there. Other veteran mounted warriors just start heading back to the core to provide some entertainment.
With all this new territory, the worker wall gets shortened considerably as more workers are needed to road and irrigate the Ottoman territory.
I continue to rush settlers, and I have enough cash left over to rush another wormy.
IBT – The Ottomans still have a decent number of knights coming my way seen by my armies on their way to Russia (15 in one stack). The first Russian boats come into view on my east coast, but they have a long way to travel to get around the worker wall. I get my first cultural expansions from the Temple of Artemis.
730 AD – Second attempt at Karabuk – there are only 4 rifles now. I still don’t redline them all, but I kill the top ones with cavalry armies to expose the redlined ones to conventional units. Copernicus’ Observatory is not enough to make me let it stand.
The northern bombardment stack mostly takes a turn off to heal some units, but the bombardment itself keeps moving forward under the army – the horses can catch up next turn.
I raze my first Aztec city as Umtata falls to an army after I lost 2 cavalry.
I can’t starve JS Bachs anymore with the resisters there, so I throw a few veteran mounted warriors in there. Other veteran mounted warriors just start heading back to the core to provide some entertainment.
With all this new territory, the worker wall gets shortened considerably as more workers are needed to road and irrigate the Ottoman territory.
I continue to rush settlers, and I have enough cash left over to rush another wormy.
AutomatedTeller
Frequent poster
That's pretty good - taking down one of your biggest rivals right off!!
Russia will be a bear - you'll probably be up against infantry by the time you get to that
Maybe they'll missing oil or rubber, so you won't have to worry about tanks or bombers.
Russia will be a bear - you'll probably be up against infantry by the time you get to that
Maybe they'll missing oil or rubber, so you won't have to worry about tanks or bombers.IBT More of the same
lots of annoying bombardment from Ottoman frigates, the knight stack has moved south of Kirklareli, and a stack of 5 rifles moved next to Urfa.
740 AD - I move a settler into position to claim the furs next turn and slaughter several of the exposed rifles but no leaders.
IBT The Aztecs land 3 units in my territory. We quell 2 more resisters in JS Bach.
750 AD The Incans will talk peace. Im not getting war happiness from them, but I cant see any reason why I should pay them for peace right now, so we stay at war.
I hook up furs for luxury #2, but that town is an obvious high flip risk, so I will have to relieve the pressure before I can count on keeping these furs.
My military advisor has some good news for me:
The 3 Aztecs are handled easily.
I kill all 15 Ottoman knights losing 4-5 mounted warriors. Hopefully, those were the last of the Ottomans mounted units.
The Aztec town of Swazi defended by 2 muskets was razed by a cavalry army alone.
Aggressive settling continues
740 AD - I move a settler into position to claim the furs next turn and slaughter several of the exposed rifles but no leaders.
IBT The Aztecs land 3 units in my territory. We quell 2 more resisters in JS Bach.
750 AD The Incans will talk peace. Im not getting war happiness from them, but I cant see any reason why I should pay them for peace right now, so we stay at war.
I hook up furs for luxury #2, but that town is an obvious high flip risk, so I will have to relieve the pressure before I can count on keeping these furs.
My military advisor has some good news for me:
The 3 Aztecs are handled easily.
I kill all 15 Ottoman knights losing 4-5 mounted warriors. Hopefully, those were the last of the Ottomans mounted units.
The Aztec town of Swazi defended by 2 muskets was razed by a cavalry army alone.
Aggressive settling continues
IBT – The usual Ottoman frigate bombardment is joined by several Russian frigates this turn. Clearly the Ottomans and Russians need to be at war with each other. The Ottomans “threaten” a city of mine by placing 11 pikes next to it.
760 AD – Start by seeing what Russia needs for peace. This is why I was glad to have the extra source of war happiness, but I also will need to tie this peace treaty to alliances. There is no way I want peace with Russia to last 20 turns. I need to pillage them and capture the Great Library sooner than that.
160 gold will get me peace.
500 additional gold will get an alliance vs. America.
40 additional gold will get an alliance vs. Aztecs.
An alliance vs. the OCC* Zulu costs 640 gold
.
They will pay 20 gold for an alliance vs. the Mongols.
An alliance vs. the Ottomans is 640 gold.
They would never accept an alliance against Babylon or Inca.
*Actually not just OCC – they are now playing a OTC (one tile challenge).
I’ll wait until the end of the turn. I still don’t even know how far my pillaging armies are from Russian territory. If they are close, then I will probably just stay at war and suffer through the coastal bombardment.
Back to fighting. First up is the Battle of Kafa which sits on an iron hill. It is only defended by two rifles and a longbow who are all easily redlined, but I still lose 2 elites and 1 vet trying to take the last hps. The longbow is taken by an elite mounted warrior, and the city is razed.
The northern bombardment stack parks next to New Zimbabwe to attack next turn.
I attack the Ottoman town of Riza in an effort to make sure my furs don’t flip. I only had 1 MDI army outside of it at the beginning of the turn, but I was willing to take some chances. The MDI army killed the first rifle 11/16, and went to 7/17 killing the second. A 16/17 cavalry army could also reach it to attack once, and it killed the third and final rifle. I thought I was going to have to tolerate a longbow defending the city for a turn, but I realized I can reach that city with another cavalry army (actually 2 more armies if I needed them - 4 moves are great!), so the city is razed, and my furs are much safer.
Ivory will be settled and immediately connected next turn.
I’m not sure bombardment is at all useful anymore. It just can’t keep up, and armies pretty much never die anyway. If I were sure I wasn’t going to have to face infantry in Russia, I would start disbanding now, but for now I start putting some artillery along my southern coast to try to hit an occasional frigate to save some terrain.
I decide not to sign peace with Russia. I can’t be that far from their territory, and I don’t want to end up stuck in a peace deal. I have an extra source of war happiness for now, but at some point, I will be losing my Aztec war happiness since I am actually starting to fight them.
760 AD – Start by seeing what Russia needs for peace. This is why I was glad to have the extra source of war happiness, but I also will need to tie this peace treaty to alliances. There is no way I want peace with Russia to last 20 turns. I need to pillage them and capture the Great Library sooner than that.
160 gold will get me peace.
500 additional gold will get an alliance vs. America.
40 additional gold will get an alliance vs. Aztecs.
An alliance vs. the OCC* Zulu costs 640 gold
.They will pay 20 gold for an alliance vs. the Mongols.
An alliance vs. the Ottomans is 640 gold.
They would never accept an alliance against Babylon or Inca.
*Actually not just OCC – they are now playing a OTC (one tile challenge).
I’ll wait until the end of the turn. I still don’t even know how far my pillaging armies are from Russian territory. If they are close, then I will probably just stay at war and suffer through the coastal bombardment.
Back to fighting. First up is the Battle of Kafa which sits on an iron hill. It is only defended by two rifles and a longbow who are all easily redlined, but I still lose 2 elites and 1 vet trying to take the last hps. The longbow is taken by an elite mounted warrior, and the city is razed.
The northern bombardment stack parks next to New Zimbabwe to attack next turn.
I attack the Ottoman town of Riza in an effort to make sure my furs don’t flip. I only had 1 MDI army outside of it at the beginning of the turn, but I was willing to take some chances. The MDI army killed the first rifle 11/16, and went to 7/17 killing the second. A 16/17 cavalry army could also reach it to attack once, and it killed the third and final rifle. I thought I was going to have to tolerate a longbow defending the city for a turn, but I realized I can reach that city with another cavalry army (actually 2 more armies if I needed them - 4 moves are great!), so the city is razed, and my furs are much safer.
Ivory will be settled and immediately connected next turn.
I’m not sure bombardment is at all useful anymore. It just can’t keep up, and armies pretty much never die anyway. If I were sure I wasn’t going to have to face infantry in Russia, I would start disbanding now, but for now I start putting some artillery along my southern coast to try to hit an occasional frigate to save some terrain.
I decide not to sign peace with Russia. I can’t be that far from their territory, and I don’t want to end up stuck in a peace deal. I have an extra source of war happiness for now, but at some point, I will be losing my Aztec war happiness since I am actually starting to fight them.
Did you raze Leo's? Once you have artillery proper, I'd suspect you'll want artilleries, as by then you'll probably face infantries. Then again, that would come as cash taking away from wormies. Or arties proper, might also help minimize losses when you land a stack/establish a beachead against say Russia. Or they could help for more leader fishing. Or maybe help to raze multiple towns at once (armies go at one city, artillery stack goes at another with infantry/cavalry assistance of course). Arties can also shrink a city, making the redlined defender easier to kill. O.K., you already knew that... but everyone's reading this thread now, right?
I haven't come across Leo's yet - that's in Mongolian territory. If I captured it at this point, I would definitely try to keep it, but I don't know if it will be worth as much by the time I get there.
My military:
22 armies
82 cavalry
30 mounted warriors
34 MDI
10 muskets
1 pikeman
1 spearman
23 warriors
1 crusader
24 cannons
44 trebuchets
51 catapults
8 galleys
Strong to America, Zulu, Mongols, Babylon.
Average to Ottomans.
Weak to Russia, Aztecs, Incans.
My military:
22 armies
82 cavalry
30 mounted warriors
34 MDI
10 muskets
1 pikeman
1 spearman
23 warriors
1 crusader
24 cannons
44 trebuchets
51 catapults
8 galleys
Strong to America, Zulu, Mongols, Babylon.
Average to Ottomans.
Weak to Russia, Aztecs, Incans.
Calis
on time
Do you know, whether Russia is on the same landmass as you are?
Calis
on time
You could do a one turn mass upgrade after capturing the city and then abandon it afterwards.
I can't be 100% certain, but it seems very likely. They at least have some cities on my landmass because workers have periodically been available for trade.
If Moscow is not on my landmass, then I am in serious trouble because I've bet everything on being able to capture the Great Library, and I don't think I can do it overseas carrying only 2 units per boat.
Lord Emsworth
Emperor
I think you might be able to tell by the luxes that they have. I don't know if it is still that way on C3C maps, but in my experience the luxes are land-mass dependent. Means, all luxes of a certain type are confined to the same continent or island and if one island or continent has for example silks, you won't find them anywhere else except for that island or continent.
So, if the Russians have multiple sources of a lux that you see around on your land mass it seems fairly certain that they are on the same land mass. Did you establish an embassy with them and take a screen shot? Or at least a screen shot of (old) negotiations?
Moscow is on my landmass 
IBT The bombardment continues, and this time a barracks in a coastal town is destroyed as well as some terrain improvements. We quell another resister in JS Bachs (there are 2 left now), and the resistance in Urfa ends. The Incans start Magellans Voyage! The Incans are also now Industrial.
770 AD - The Incans, Russians, and Ottomans all have the ability to sell maps. I still dont want peace with the Russians and certainly not with the Ottomans, but the Incans are not even providing war happiness plus they have 3 extra sources of spices that they should be able to trade to me now that they have Navigation.
The Incans want 5 gpt for peace, but it costs 32 gpt plus my world map for peace plus his world map. That is one expensive map, but I pay it anyway.
The Aztec territory is still unknown, but it looks like everyone except the Babylonians and Incans started on one landmass.
Why cant I trade for the Incans luxuries? They dont have a trade embargo against us per F4. We have a wide ocean route there is no way anybody has boats blocking every path
.
Im not far from Russia, but it looks like it could be slow progress thanks to the Mongols failure to clear jungle. It cant be good that Russia is capturing jungle with Replaceable Parts probably not that far away for them.
Some armies rest to heal, others push the attack. Theyre just slaughtering any Ottoman units they come across on their way to towns. It almost makes you feel sorry for the poor helpless Sid AI.
I thought I could take New Zimbabwe this turn, but after redlining the 3 rifles, I realize I only had an MDI army and 2 mounted warriors in the stack the rest is bombardment. One mounted warrior wins, the other loses, and the 16/16 MDI army drops to 6/16 attempting to kill a redlined rifle. I fortify on the hill, but there is a definite chance Ill lose a lot of artillery. Actually, maybe I should have done that intentionally I dont really need artillery for a while, and I could save on unit costs before recapturing them later
.
I can now trade with the Incans. Maybe trade routes only get recalculated at certain times. We were at war in the beginning of the turn, and signing peace didnt recalculate trade routes, but when I found a city, the routes got recalculated so we could trade 
?
The Incans want ivory, furs, and 11 gpt for their spices
. Whatever it takes to keep my people happy
now a size 12 city has 1 unhappy person. With 1 MP, I get WLTKD and with 2 MPs I get 100% happies. Of course I dont have quite enough units sitting around to be MPs, but the score is showing some signs of improvement.
IBT The Ottoman and Russian frigates all ignore me and move past toward some mystery target. The Ottomans also ignore my weakly protected bombardment stack, but they do capture a settler that I let wander too far. JS Bachs flips to the Ottomans so much for all those happy people this turn. The Russians start Magellans Voyage. Mongols go Industrial.
780 AD
Sinop is razed by a pair of cavalry armies, destroying the irrelevant Great Wall.
Another pair of cavalry armies tears down Tuncili.
A cavalry army acting alone kills 3 rifles and a longbow to raze Iskenderun.
JS Bachs has 2 riflemen in it already, but I recapture it anyway without loss, but we are back up to 4 resisters.
One cavalry army kills 3 conscript rifles (going 5/17 in the process) leaving a longbow on top, but I dont have any more units that can reach there this turn
. Wait that is not true I have a 2/18 cavalry army that can reach there. The combat calculator says Im 89% to win, so why not? If I leave that city standing, then my nearest city has an 8% flip chance, and I am only going to lose this battle 4%. The cavalry army does the job keeping both hps intact.
I kill my first Russian unit as a knight was in the way of my cavalry armies.
New Zimbabwe gets leveled by lots of bombardment, 1 mounted warrior, and 1 cavalry army.
The Ottomans are under 20 cities and have obviously lost all ability to defend themselves against the rampaging Iroquois armies. Just a note for people who might think they can do pointy stick research in a game like this I still cant get even 1 free Middle Age tech from the Ottomans:
IBT The bombardment continues, and this time a barracks in a coastal town is destroyed as well as some terrain improvements. We quell another resister in JS Bachs (there are 2 left now), and the resistance in Urfa ends. The Incans start Magellans Voyage! The Incans are also now Industrial.
770 AD - The Incans, Russians, and Ottomans all have the ability to sell maps. I still dont want peace with the Russians and certainly not with the Ottomans, but the Incans are not even providing war happiness plus they have 3 extra sources of spices that they should be able to trade to me now that they have Navigation.
The Incans want 5 gpt for peace, but it costs 32 gpt plus my world map for peace plus his world map. That is one expensive map, but I pay it anyway.
The Aztec territory is still unknown, but it looks like everyone except the Babylonians and Incans started on one landmass.
Why cant I trade for the Incans luxuries? They dont have a trade embargo against us per F4. We have a wide ocean route there is no way anybody has boats blocking every path
.
Im not far from Russia, but it looks like it could be slow progress thanks to the Mongols failure to clear jungle. It cant be good that Russia is capturing jungle with Replaceable Parts probably not that far away for them.
Some armies rest to heal, others push the attack. Theyre just slaughtering any Ottoman units they come across on their way to towns. It almost makes you feel sorry for the poor helpless Sid AI.
I thought I could take New Zimbabwe this turn, but after redlining the 3 rifles, I realize I only had an MDI army and 2 mounted warriors in the stack the rest is bombardment. One mounted warrior wins, the other loses, and the 16/16 MDI army drops to 6/16 attempting to kill a redlined rifle. I fortify on the hill, but there is a definite chance Ill lose a lot of artillery. Actually, maybe I should have done that intentionally I dont really need artillery for a while, and I could save on unit costs before recapturing them later
.I can now trade with the Incans
. Maybe trade routes only get recalculated at certain times. We were at war in the beginning of the turn, and signing peace didnt recalculate trade routes, but when I found a city, the routes got recalculated so we could trade ? The Incans want ivory, furs, and 11 gpt for their spices
. Whatever it takes to keep my people happy
now a size 12 city has 1 unhappy person. With 1 MP, I get WLTKD and with 2 MPs I get 100% happies. Of course I dont have quite enough units sitting around to be MPs, but the score is showing some signs of improvement.IBT The Ottoman and Russian frigates all ignore me and move past toward some mystery target
. The Ottomans also ignore my weakly protected bombardment stack, but they do capture a settler that I let wander too far. JS Bachs flips to the Ottomans so much for all those happy people this turn. The Russians start Magellans Voyage. Mongols go Industrial.780 AD
Sinop is razed by a pair of cavalry armies, destroying the irrelevant Great Wall.
Another pair of cavalry armies tears down Tuncili.
A cavalry army acting alone kills 3 rifles and a longbow to raze Iskenderun.
JS Bachs has 2 riflemen in it already, but I recapture it anyway without loss, but we are back up to 4 resisters.
One cavalry army kills 3 conscript rifles (going 5/17 in the process) leaving a longbow on top, but I dont have any more units that can reach there this turn
. Wait that is not true I have a 2/18 cavalry army that can reach there. The combat calculator says Im 89% to win, so why not? If I leave that city standing, then my nearest city has an 8% flip chance, and I am only going to lose this battle 4%. The cavalry army does the job keeping both hps intact.
I kill my first Russian unit as a knight was in the way of my cavalry armies.
New Zimbabwe gets leveled by lots of bombardment, 1 mounted warrior, and 1 cavalry army.
The Ottomans are under 20 cities and have obviously lost all ability to defend themselves against the rampaging Iroquois armies. Just a note for people who might think they can do pointy stick research in a game like this I still cant get even 1 free Middle Age tech from the Ottomans:
Chamnix said:
Um... it says "close" to Education, so couldn't you get Printing Press? Not saying you should or that has any value whatsoever at this point. And the idea about pointy stick research seems to stand from your screenshot... I just suspect what you said *technically* does, since because it says "close" I suspect you could get Printing Press.
AutomatedTeller
Frequent poster
you aren't strong to ottomans are you? I'm guessing you are average or so, no? Or has it tipped that far over, that you are finally killing units faster than they can replace them?
Calis
on time
but what about their gold? How many bucks would they pay for peace?
Looking at the world map, it looks like a great map regarding the domination limit. Just a feeling, but what do the numbers say?
Looking at the world map, it looks like a great map regarding the domination limit. Just a feeling, but what do the numbers say?
Right now the Ottomans would give about 2300 of their 10000+ gold for peace.
The domination limit for this map is 4481 which is excellent. It is not quite as good as Moonsinger's 88k map was, but I try anything over 4300, so this is much better than most maps I tried.
The domination limit for this map is 4481 which is excellent. It is not quite as good as Moonsinger's 88k map was, but I try anything over 4300, so this is much better than most maps I tried.
