My little secret for keeping up in the Deity Tech Race

[Moonsinger]

There are several methods to keep up with the tech race at the Deity level. I usually beat up the AIs for techs. And of course, the AIs often give me free techs for letting them to beat me up too. It doesn't matter who beat up who, I will be the one who end up with all techs. (Of course, how to stay alive is a different matter)

Since everyone here know how to beat up the AIs for tech, I won't get into that. However, I bet that most of you didn't know about the other way around. That means the AIs will give us a final meal before they are going all out to kill us. I check with my military advisor often. If another civ is wandering inside my territory (or heading toward my territory) and my military advisor is saying "comparing to these guys, our military is weak", I will know that there is a good chance for me to take a big jump in tech. Note: Must be absolutely honorable (and having a strong economy) for this method to work.

Basically, I just go ahead and pay gpt for all their latest techs. Since the AIs are alot stronger than me and they are matching their troops toward me, they have every intention to destroy me. By paying them GPT, I will acomplish one of these two goals:

1. The AIs may change their minds about destroying me because they don't want to lose their gpt deal with me and they don't want to dishonor themselve.

2. For those AIs that have no honor, they will go head and break their GPT deal with me (no matter how much gpt I'm still owning them); therefore, I don't have to pay them anything. The bottom line, I keep my honor and my gold, and I get their techs for free.

It may seem like an exploit but I think it's perfectly legal. After all, I didn't do anything to lure them into declaring war on me. My only crime here is that I'm listenning to my advisor (because my advisor also tell me who I can and can't trust; therefore, I can pretty much predict ahead of time on whether or not the AIs will betray me).

Do you think that it is an exploit if I use this in the next Deity GOTM? I had not used this method in any of my previous GOTM (other than those games for the HoF, I didn't use this method anywhere else), but I'm thinking of giving it a try in the next Deity game here (whenever that may be); therefore, I hopping to get some input from you guys first.

 

[zagnut]

I think this is all part of the strategy of playing the game and I see absolutely nothing wrong with it. This is especially true since you really don't know whether the approaching civ will actually invade you or will turn around and go home because they are now in love with you.

Keep thinking.

 

[civ_steve]

It might be considered an exploit if it can be shown that the AI will ALWAYS trade you a technology for gpt, even if it plans to attack you the next turn. (Of course there is still the issue of SURVIVING, so maybe it's not that exploitive.)

This actually happened to me in the current GOTM. Our nearest original neighbor dropped a couple of unit from a Galley right next to my capital. I made a gpt deal for an early Tech, not to get a free Tech but to convince them not to attack. They did anyway! I survived their attack, and got a free Tech out of the deal.

 

[Birdjaguar]

Moonsinger, can you give an example of how many gpt you might pay for a group of techs?

 

[ltcoljt]

Moonsinger thinks like a software tester.

 

[Karasu]

Originally posted by ltcoljt
Moonsinger thinks like a software tester.

Is that true?

Well thought, anyway: I have occasionally done something like that (not at Deity!!), but I would never have thought of turning it into a sistematic approach to the game.
I think it's worth trying and absolutely not a cheat.

In fact, I am really curious to know how you would make sure that you survive in a Deity game when a bigger, stronger, meaner AI is already within your territory...

 

[Moonsinger]

Here is a sample screen shot of a GPT deal. Of course, if you ask Egypt to leave, she will declare war immediately. If you don't ask her to leave, she probably will declare war in too. Basically, she didn't travel half way around the world so that she can just turn around to go home empty handed.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/Moonsinger_560ad.jpg

 

[Moonsinger]

Originally posted by Karasu
In fact, I am really curious to know how you would make sure that you survive in a Deity game when a bigger, stronger, meaner AI is already within your territory...

As show in the previous screenshot, I'm playing the Chinese in pink (at the top of the map) and Egypt is in the yellow color (at the bottom of the map). Even when Egypt is a lot stronger than me, she can't really hurt me because she is too far away. Therefore, I just have to withstand her initial invasion, then pay her next door neighbor to fight her for me. The key to survival is not to fight this war myself. Since the AI can pretty much out produce us at the Deity level, we won't stand much of a chance if we have to fight this war alone. In this case, I could let Aztecs in Green and America in Cyan to fight Egypt for me. In the meantime, I will enjoy those four free techs (a total of over 9000 gold that I don't have to pay Egypt).

 

[Kemal]

I don't see anything wrong with this technique, it's just another example of AI stupidity if they continue with their attack even after you pay them 451 gpt.

Besides, like zagnut said, sometimes they do withdraw, or had a different target than you expected, so there is a (very small) risk involved you'll destroy your own economy this way.

 

[Shillen]

I don't think it's an exploit in the situations you've mentioned. One case where I think it would be an exploit is after you get espionage. You could safely buy techs from civ's across the world and get them to declare war on you easily. As long as you were making a healthy amount of gp you could get every single tech the AI has with only the cost of espionage.

 

[Darkness]

Great technique Moonsinger... I don't think this is an exploit at all and I'll certainly try to remember it the next time I take a (probably failing) shot at deity level....

 

[Moonsinger]

Originally posted by Kemal
I don't see anything wrong with this technique, it's just another example of AI stupidity if they continue with their attack even after you pay them 451 gpt.

Besides, like zagnut said, sometimes they do withdraw, or had a different target than you expected, so there is a (very small) risk involved you'll destroy your own economy this way.

Yes, there is a small chance that they will turn around and go home. Even if they do that, it won't hurt my economy. Since I have to buy all my techs from the AIs anyway, 4 techs for 451 GPT is a really good deal. At this point, I don't really need Democracy; therefore, in the worst case, I end up buying a tech that I don't need.

 

[Moonsinger]

Originally posted by Darkness
Great technique Moonsinger... I don't think this is an exploit at all and I'll certainly try to remember it the next time I take a (probably failing) shot at deity level....

It will work at all levels. However, since we usually are way ahead of the AIs at the lower level in term of military and technology, we rarely come to this.


To Shillen,

I know what you mean. Trade with them, then use the spies to lure them into declaring war. Of course, you could also trigger the war with the MPP too. Yes, that would seem like an exploit and I'm sometimes guilty of using it. Hopefully, we will find out exactly what we can and can't do in the next GOTM.

 

[Kemal]

Originally posted by Moonsinger


Yes, there is a small chance that they will turn around and go home. Even if they do that, it won't hurt my economy. Since I have to buy all my techs from the AIs anyway, 4 techs for 451 GPT is a really good deal. At this point, I don't really need Democracy; therefore, in the worst case, I end up buying a tech that I don't need.

Certainly true, I guess my statement is focusing too much (if not totally) on an economy that's set up to outresearch the AI (which, not coincedentally, I usually focus on when playing the game), instead of economies focused on gold-income to buy techs.

For a science based economy paying that much gpt to any AI can be devastating, but as the aim is to be more advanced you won't end up using this trick anyway in such a situation.
I'm just really happy the AI doesn't get to read your tips, it stinks if you sell techs for lots of gpt, and you suddenly notice a stack entering your land to declare war...

 

[Borealis]

Originally posted by Kemal

I'm just really happy the AI doesn't get to read your tips, it stinks if you sell techs for lots of gpt, and you suddenly notice a stack entering your land to declare war...

I've seen the AI apparently speed up a war, or declare war on me if it has units near, to get out of gpt deals on Emperor level. They usually won't do this unless they have a chance of nabbing something, but if their rep is already ruined, they don't have much to lose and will do this more readily.

I don't have the saves anymore, but I've tested it and the AI did declare on me when it wouldn't have otherwise when I sold it tech, especially tech providing resources or military. Gunpowder, Nationalism, and Chivalry seem to fall into this category- not that it did the AI that much good as I already had the next level of defender in each case.

 

[RufRydyr]

In gotm17 i did some gpt for tech deals and then declared war. I usually have such a bad rep that they soon stop going for gpt deals, though. My plan for 18 includes a great rep, speedy tech research by giving techs away if nec., and a UN win or spaceship as soon as humanly possible. The strategy that you discuss will help. Thx Moonsinger, I've learned a lot from you!
I still use settlers to push borders back so arty can move forward on the same turn, which is another great tactic you provided.

 

[Moonsinger]

I just found out that this little trick works wonder in many different ways. Last night, the Aztecs sent a stack of 17 knights toward one of my city. So I call them up and ask them for an alliance against Egypt for as little as 22 gpt (since I'm currently at war with Egypt, I need all the help I can get). No problem, they said and they immediately declared war on Egypt. Of course, I was very trouble with their stack of knights, so I decided to ask them to leave and was hopping that they would turn around and go for Egypt; instead, they broke their alliance with me and declared war on me too. Anyway, now I don't have to pay them that 22 gpt.

In conclusion, when the AI sends a stack of doom toward us during peacetime, it's a good oportunity for us to buy techs paying gpt, get a big loan from them, pay gpt for alliance against other civs, etc. The key here is to pay gpt for everything because there is a good chance that they will declare war on us and we get all those stuffs for free.

 

[Yndy]

Having applied occasionally all those ploys I have only one comment with regard to what may be exploitative.

If you buy tech for huge amounts of gpt and immediately afterwards ask them to leave your territory that would not comply to the ‘honourable’ code IMO. Because on deity the AI will 90% of the time declares war on you when asked to leave regardless of the on-going deals. On the other hand if you let them make their mind by ending your turn than they would really choose whether they want to break the treaty or not. But this is only an ethical issue and by GOTM rules you may take advantage of this tactic. I certainly do when I have the chance. I also take all their cash on hand and pay them gpt to obtain maximum leverage in case they declare war.

 

[hotrod0823]

@Yndy: I believe the standard for "honorable" rules have been implemented at RBCiv and allows for you to ask any Civ to remove their forces from your Sovereign territory at any time. You have every right to defend your land honorably.

 

[alamo]

It is hard to rule out anything that is allowed in ordinary play w/o reload. This exploit is just another circumstance that was not provided rational control, like worker dogpiling.

This could be combined with the old ROP exploit as well - move in the SOD's and decapitate your 'friend' in 1 move.

There is some risk in the strategy, but if you can manage to get a deal before attack then go for it!