My Old World experience, 6-hours In (initial pros and cons)

CornPlanter

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I do not consider 46 to be very old. Nor 25, nor 14. Those are the ages of me and my family members who have died.
I think it should be pretty obvious I wasn't talking about 14 or 25 or 46 which obviously died unexpected deaths. And you shouldn't be warned about unexpected deaths by definition which again is not a rocket science.

Did you really think I considered 14 to be very old or did you just try to be very snarky because in your opinion it's a proper response to someone trying to help you with pretty obvious things that you still failed to figure on your own?
 

Stalker0

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So I'm back to Old World after playing it heavily last year, so its been about 10 months since I played it much.

Pro
For me the biggest pro of this game is, its a new style 4x game that WORKS. Most of the time when you see a 4x game go "revolutionary", it might have some great ideas but the polish itsn't there, the AI sucks, etc etc. The biggest compliment I can give to OW is that they made a new concept, and yet this game is pretty darn polished. The AI is cunning and difficult, the mechanics all work, they amount of big bugs has been blessedly low. And of course, the new concepts really work. The order based system really does make you consider every order, the combat is one of the most fun tactical challenges that I've actually enjoyed. It gets the job done.

Con
My con coming back to the game, is after 10 months and like 90ish patches, most of the issues I originally had still seem to be present. Food is still way too plentiful on most maps, shops are still questionable, rivers are still really really hard to see, I am still missing hotkeys for things like building a mine (though thank god there is finally a heal hotkey!!!!!!). So far the game hasn't improved as much in some of the areas I would like, hehe which is part of the price you pay for a game that was already rock solid right out of the gate (so crazy for a 4x game to actually be good when its released!).

If I were to pick a con for a new player, is that the combat is insanely unforgiving and hard to understand when you first start playing. For you newbies out there, I apologize in advance, but you are going to lose a LOT of units. And your going to scream at the screen, "how the hell did that unit do 10 damage, my units do like 3, what kind of bs bonuses is this AI getting!!!" But its not actually getting any tactical bonuses, its just that combat takes a while to get good at, and the difference in how you do with just a bit of proficiency is absolutely night and day.
 

Das Capitolin

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Man, does the AI swarm you! And the amount of orders they have - I see Persia has twice the mine.
I have also noticed this. Even on the lower difficulties, AI goes from weak to over-powered quite quickly. It becomes a challenge, for sure, ensuring that future generations will be finishing what I start.
 

PiR

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I also like the mechanics of wonder building. Although the guaranteed selling and buying of the surplus and wanted resources to the omnipresent market does feel a bit gamey, but probably a reasonable abstraction. However, iirc, PDX Victoria series do simulate the real economy, where you can't magically buy resources that are not sold in sufficient quantities by other nations and your nation's rating isn't high enough.
I used to think the same, but what about the private sector? You could be buying and selling with them. :p
 

Stalker0

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I used to think the same, but what about the private sector? You could be buying and selling with them. :p

There is also just the standard market economics to think of here. As you buy goods, the price goes up, and suddenly other people are going to be willing to sell those goods now that the price is a bit higher. Yes its more dynamic than it would have been back there, but the same concept applies...enough for a game imo.
 

Ita Bear

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Hello folks,

I'm going to repeat what I have said for a while and say that the game desperately needs better UI and unit/city controls. I find the early game very fun indeed, but Old World is a 4X game that is leaning very heavily towards the war-game subgenre and war is therefore inevitable. Wars in Old World are deadly and you will go through many, many units in your conquests. By the time mid-game rolls around, you will probably have 30-40+ units around your empire, and you will need a great deal of them for an invasion or defence. Each unit must be controlled individually, taking into account orders, promotions and generals as well. On top of that, by mid-game you should have 10-15 cities as well, all of which seem to be demanding your attention every turn through worker improvements, governors, or the build queue. It rapidly becomes exhausting and demoralising having to cycle through and control units and cities one by one, turn after turn.

Civ IV alleviated this in two ways - the stacking mechanic meant armies could be controlled in manageable units. It's much easier to control 3-4 stacks in an enemy empire as opposed to 20+ units. In Civ IV, cities are also able to "build" resources, either money, culture or science (or be placed under AI control, though this was flaky at best). They could also pump out units, but they could just stack up over time without needing to micromanage each one.

I adore the game but sadly I quit so often into the mid-game because it becomes a clickfest. Since 1UPT is baked into the game, I'm really not sure how these issues can be alleviated, either. Civ V and VI certainly had no success with that.

Kind regards,
Ita Bear
 

PiR

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Hi Ita, I get your point about units, but for cities? You can put them on unit production if you have the resources, same as Civ IV, and you can also put them on yield production through repeatable projects. You can also automate the workers if you wish.
 

MrRadar

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Nov 8, 2014
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Well, first game done, and contrary to my expectations, my a** wasn't handed back to me, it was Ambition Victory with 6 cities instead, while coming in last in the current VP ranking, no territorial conquests or losses and one rather short but quite scary war only. Felt a little bit on the easy side, as if taking a shortcut to cut a corner, but maybe it was because Egypt? Anyway, as with anything arbitrary, those ambitions do feel a bit gamey, a bit like that Diplomatic Victory in Civ VI, although better than that one.
Spoiler :




Do AI civs go after Ambition Victory too? And where to find those stats, meaning how close they are? While the UI is incomparably better than that of Civ VI, some QoL improvements still can be made, including some sort of strategic overview, as it is rather difficult to see the whole picture of the territory the civs possess. I also could not find an easy and immediate overview of the vassal families, except in the cities tab, where you have to mouse over their icons separately to see relations and preferred luxuries and if they are getting them - a separate tab with such info visible immediately without mousing over would be very welcome. But otherwise I'm quite happy with the UI, it quickly and efficiently gives you lots of useful information.

It rapidly becomes exhausting and demoralising having to cycle through and control units and cities one by one, turn after turn.
Yes, I have to agree that there is some truth here. I only had six cities and rebuilt an average-sized army which I then did not use, but the worker and city management actions did become somewhat tedious midgame on, especially when I decided on my path to the endgame. Having to manage a large empire or fight a midgame or lategame war does seem an intimidating prospect.

As for more Pros of this game, I'd mention the soundtrack - it is excellent with quite a few tracks where I just stop doing anything and sit there soaking in the atmosphere :)

Anyway, it will be interesting to play further games, now that I'll now much more of what I'm doing in respect of character and land development. I've even read half the manual in between turns and sessions and plan to continue, as it is really helpful.

For you newbies out there, I apologize in advance, but you are going to lose a LOT of units. And your going to scream at the screen, "how the hell did that unit do 10 damage, my units do like 3, what kind of bs bonuses is this AI getting!!!" But its not actually getting any tactical bonuses, its just that combat takes a while to get good at, and the difference in how you do with just a bit of proficiency is absolutely night and day.

Well, although there were something along those lines in my initial shock during the first war, I've avoided further warfare and turtled behind a triple wall of very diplomatic words. So my biggest takeaway from the first game was a bit different. Namely, the stone resource is the air, water, bread and butter in this game. You breath it, drink it, eat it and dream about it at night. And you're always, always short of it. Always.
 

PiR

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Do AI civs go after Ambition Victory too?
No only human
I also could not find an easy and immediate overview of the vassal families, except in the cities tab
There is a dedicated tab, it's the 2nd one
upload_2022-5-28_21-11-52.png
 

MrRadar

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Tab 4 is the city tab and you mentionned it in your post though? :D
Ah, but there are 2 house icons. It’s the one on the top left side I was talking about. :lol:
 
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Stalker0

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As for more Pros of this game, I'd mention the soundtrack - it is excellent with quite a few tracks where I just stop doing anything and sit there soaking in the atmosphere :)

Something a lot of people don't know about. THere is a music button on the tooltip, where you can select which song you want to hear. there are certain ones I will just listen to over and over again! :)
 
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