My Thoughts on Steam vs. Original CDs

[Puppeteer]

Having long been anti-DRM, I only very recently installed Steam. After playing a couple of the free games on two or three separate machines I decided to go ahead and pick up CivIII Complete on Steam (it was on sale) partially to offset CD-break/lose risk and partly out of curiosity.

I haven't played it much yet, but it has no problems with Windows 8.1, the save files and other changes do not end up in VirtualStore or otherwise scattered, and I am able to access and change the .ini and art files as I wish, and it works fine. The recent release of CivAssist II updated to work on the newer .NET versions worked fine with the Steam game, too. It knew where to find the save game files without my intervention.

Coming from the original CDs, the glaring Steam omissions are the executables for the original Civ3 and the Play the World expansion. I doubt I'll ever miss vanilla, but on occasion I have fired up PTW (my CD version), although now that I think about it, that was mainly for a GOTM. Maybe once or twice I had a nostalgic desire to play RCP.

I started trying to think about it from other perspectives, and I'm not sure leaving out the older executables is a problem for most players. The corruption model is (for me) the biggest exe-based change between PTW and Conquests. The rules and tech tree changes could be modded to be like PTW with the C3C executable. So unless one wants RCP or to play a play-by-email or SG with people using the PTW executable, which is a small population these days, maybe only using the Conquests executable is not a problem.

I'm not throwing away my CDs, mind you, but for now I'm going to play with the Steam version on my desktop and laptop and see if I notice any other issues.

Steam CivIII advantages:
- No CD needed
- Can play on multiple PCs (? - need to verify this)
- Installs and works without alterations, compat mode or admin mode in Windows 8.1 (and presumably therefore 8, 7 and Vista)
- Save and game files are accessible and mod-able

Steam CivIII disadvantages:
- Original/vanilla civ3 executable not present
- PTW executable not present
- Requires Steam installed (if you don't already)
- Requires repurchase (if you already have CD version)

 

[Quintillus]

That's a pretty good summary. You can indeed play the Steam version on multiple PCs, too. The only limitation there is you can't be logged in to your Steam account on multiple PCs at the same time. So this means that if you want to play Civ3 on two of your computers at once, one of them has to be in Offline Mode (disconnected to the Internet, at least when you start Steam).

One other minor issue for veterans may be that the Steam version is fully patched, which means it can't open pre-1.20 save files. I doubt many people are opening such save files these days, but with the CD install, copying the CivIII directory after installing Conquests 1.00, and only thereafter installing 1.22, allows opening both pre-and-post 1.20 save files. For new players, this wouldn't be an issue.

Overall, for new people, I recommend the Steam version. Even when it's not on sale, it'd be hard to get the CDs for less than the Steam cost, unless you find them at a garage sale. I'm currently running the Steam version on my laptop, but the CD version on my desktop, having recently found my CDs that had been lost for many months. It's kind of nice to have the option of playing non-Conquests GOTMs again, even if I haven't played one in the week since I found my CDs.

Edit: Another option is the Gamersgate download. While I don't recall having seen this version on sale, at $4.95 it's still inexpensive. And unlike Steam, Gamersgate has no client. Instead, it just downloads the installer, which you can keep on your hard drive to re-install if you so choose. Thus, even if Gamersgate were to go kaput, you'd still be able to install on new computers - unlike if Steam went kaput. Gamersgate lists the DRM as SecuROM, which is the same as the CD version - but the Gamersgate version has no CDs. So, while I can't guarantee it since I haven't bought that version, I'm pretty sure it would be de facto DRM-free.

No sign of Civilization (any version) on GOG yet, though. They did add Covert Action this week, bringing their number of Sid Meier games to three (Colonization and Alpha Centauri being the others).

 

[Puppeteer]

It wasn't my intention to use multliple copies of any purchase at once, but I do have a laptop and a desktop and want the option to play on either.

No sign of Civilization (any version) on GOG yet, though. They did add Covert Action this week, bringing their number of Sid Meier games to three (Colonization and Alpha Centauri being the others).

Thanks for that. I have my SMAC CD but never got SMACX, and the times I tried for some reason the CDs were stupid expensive.

 

[CommandoBob]

When Civ V came out the Steam client was in issue for me. I didn't like the idea of having to be online in order for it to be 'okay' for me to play the game I purchased. Check and see that I have the CD? Clunky but understandable. But dial up Big Brother? Everytime? Thanks, but no thanks.

Plus, I dislike automatic updates, almost with a passion. And it seemed that the Steam client would always update itself and not give me an opt-out option, even if just to delay the update for a while (day, week, month). I don't mind if software informs me an update is available and asks if I want to update. Not even the annoying and seemingly bi-weekly updates from Flash. I merely want to be able to control what gets put on my little black box, so I know who to blame when it goes bonkers.

Not knowing what Steam was checking on to 'prove' my computer was still my computer was/is worriesome.

The forum threads on Steam at launch time did not reassure me.

I am not trying to create another 'Steam is good/bad' discussion.

But I am open to the thought that I might be overreacting.

Were the concerns I have mentioned ever one of your concerns?

 

[Puppeteer]

I've only paid for three Steam games: CivIII, SimCity 4 and Kerbal Space Program. Other stuff (tf2, Portal, FTL) was free or gifted by my brother.

For CivIII and SC4 I would be shocked if there were updates. I haven't played w/Steam enough yet to know if Steam-offline play is a problem. KSP is alpha and is expected to have many updates...I haven't had one yet so don't know if it bugs me, but it's still in active development, anyway.

I have the SC4 DVDs, so basically I got it for the same reasons I got CivIII.

I pretty much never buy a newly-released game anymore (KSP an obvious exception).

Back when HL2 and Battlefield-v.whatever were released I avoided them because of Steam. Not sure what I'd do today...probably play a 10-year old game instead.

But for what I consider lost-CD insurance pricing, picking up old games cheap on Steam seems fine so far.

 

[tide15]

Thanks for posting this info. I had no idea civ3 was on steam. It looks like I can copy all the mods off the game on my older pc.

 

[tjs282]

I've been lurking on these forums for a long time -- and have learnt much, if slowly (thanks to you all!) -- I'm still only just starting to get to grips with Monarch on Vanilla 1.29... So up until now I haven't had much useful/important to contribute, which is why this is my first actual post (wheeeeee!) because _this_ touched a nerve:

... I didn't like the idea of having to be online in order for it to be 'okay' for me to play the game I purchased. ... dial up Big Brother? Everytime? Thanks, but no thanks.

This is one of the things I hate about Steam, not least because my home internet connection is a pile of pants (only one ISP offers connection in my local neighbourhood = no inclination to improve their service), so the verification time steals minutes of gametime.

... it seemed that the Steam client would always update itself and not give me an opt-out option, even if just to delay the update for a while (day, week, month). I don't mind if software informs me an update is available and asks if I want to update. ... I merely want to be able to control what gets put on my little black box, so I know who to blame when it goes bonkers.

And this is absolutely a reasonable concern. I've only bought one thing from Steam so far: a copy of Half-Life (yes, the original) and its expansions -- which I thought I was actually getting on a CD, because I didn't read the small print in the shop (turns out it was just a CD key). So I was a bit miffed to discover that I had to install Steam's client software in the first place, since I like my privacy too.

But a recent update "to improve game performance", which I was unable to bypass, has left all the HL games completely unplayable. And so far I haven't found an option on the Steam online interface to roll back to the functional versions*. Don't see why I should have to roll back my own hard disk -- especially since it will just mean I get prompted to update again...

*Not that I've spent much time looking, since I completed all of them long since, but still... not being able to replay a game that I paid to use is annoying. It's off topic, so if anyone has any ideas for fixes, feel free to PM me. (Before you ask, my drivers are up to date, as far as I can tell -- but my hardware _is_ old)

But I am open to the thought that I might be overreacting. Were the concerns I have mentioned ever one of your concerns?

On topic -- got burned recently on an Amazon purchase of a (dodgy?) Conquests CD, so would be very tempted to go the CivIIIComplete route via Steam -- if only I could trust them not to mess it up later like they messed up my HaLi/BlSh/OpFor... Because CivIII is my favourite game (having taken that honour from the original Civ), at least if you measure by the number of hours I've sunk into it...

 

[Moosezilla]

Will not be convinced, nightmares do come true. Thanks but no thanks.

 

[Quintillus]

Thanks for that. I have my SMAC CD but never got SMACX, and the times I tried for some reason the CDs were stupid expensive.

You're welcome! I do remember how the SMACX CDs used to be $80 or something ridiculous like that. Well above my price range!

I can't think of much of a reason to play Civ on two computers at once either, other than playing multiplayer against yourself. Haven't done so with Civ myself, though I've considered doing it in Europa Universalis.

When Civ V came out the Steam client was in issue for me. I didn't like the idea of having to be online in order for it to be 'okay' for me to play the game I purchased. Check and see that I have the CD? Clunky but understandable. But dial up Big Brother? Everytime? Thanks, but no thanks.

Plus, I dislike automatic updates, almost with a passion. And it seemed that the Steam client would always update itself and not give me an opt-out option, even if just to delay the update for a while (day, week, month). I don't mind if software informs me an update is available and asks if I want to update. Not even the annoying and seemingly bi-weekly updates from Flash. I merely want to be able to control what gets put on my little black box, so I know who to blame when it goes bonkers.

Not knowing what Steam was checking on to 'prove' my computer was still my computer was/is worriesome.

The forum threads on Steam at launch time did not reassure me.

I am not trying to create another 'Steam is good/bad' discussion.

But I am open to the thought that I might be overreacting.

Were the concerns I have mentioned ever one of your concerns?

I haven't personally had any issues with the option to disable updates for a game not working. The primary game I've used it on has been Europa Universalis IV - in strategy games, I don't like updates partway through one of my games. And the don't update option has worked as intended. EU IV is on the "not queued" list in Steam for me, and has been for a few months now.

As far as I know, Steam doesn't do anything at all besides check your login credentials to see whether a computer is yours or not. You could log on to 27 of your best friends' computers, and it would be fine - you'd just be logged out of one before being logged in to the next one. Similarly, you could change all the hardware, one piece at a time, and it wouldn't be an issue. Although in the latter case, Windows would probably complain that you had a different computer after a certain point and require re-activation. By my reckoning, Windows should be a concern before Steam in this regard.

Offline Mode did used to be a bit flaky at times, particularly when there was a Steam update that had downloaded just before going into Offline Mode. But it's been a lot more reliable in my experience the past year or two. And they're making some (very technical) changes that are supposed to make it more reliable yet this coming year. If you plan to be offline for awhile, my recommendation is switch off your network adaptor, check if Steam starts, and if so, exit Steam before turning your network adaptor back on (if you plan to reconnect first before the extended absence).

The two remaining hazards are that if Steam goes under, you wouldn't be able to re-install on a new computer (though existing installations should work fine), and the possibility of getting your account banned. Although from what I've read, as long as you aren't trying to hack Steam, cheat in multiplayer games, pay with stolen credit cards, or something like that, the risk of that is near nil.

On topic -- got burned recently on an Amazon purchase of a (dodgy?) Conquests CD, so would be very tempted to go the CivIIIComplete route via Steam -- if only I could trust them not to mess it up later like they messed up my HaLi/BlSh/OpFor... Because CivIII is my favourite game (having taken that honour from the original Civ), at least if you measure by the number of hours I've sunk into it...

Welcome to CFC! I don't think you have much to worry about with updates for Civ III. And if there is an update by chance, it will be cause for much celebration!

 

[Everkane]

I don't understand why someone would pay to download something.

I never will.

 

[Lanzelot]

- Original/vanilla civ3 executable not present
- PTW executable not present

Puppeteer, in 2005 a big German games magazine bought a special Civ3 edition/license from Firaxis for inclusion in their magazine. So the Civ3 CDs were shipped with that month's edition of the magazine. However, the CDs had a problem: they contained the 1.00 version, and after upgrading the game to the latest patch from the Firaxis homepage (1.29 Vanilla, 1.27 PTW, 1.22 C3C), they game would no longer accept the CD as "valid".

Of course customers complained, and Firaxis was forced to provide no-CD executables for readers of that magazine. They are still available for download on the "PCGames Magazine" homepage:
http://www.pcgames.de/Civilization-3-PC-16293/News/Probleme-mit-Civ-3-Vollversion-Hier-gibts-Abhilfe-401682/

I'm using these exes now for 5 years in order to conserve my CDs. I have three sets of CDs: the original CDs of the German edition from 2001-2003, a German Complete edition and an English Complete edition (which I bought on eBay a few years ago, as I always had problems loading Scenarios developed on an English C3C into my German installation). So I can confirm that the exes work ok in an English Civ3 edition.

Perhaps you can simply copy these exes into your Steam installation?

PS: I just checked: the download site contains only the Vanilla and C3C exes, I can''t find the PTW exes at the moment?!

 

[Etain]

.....

 

[gps]

Steam CivIII advantages:
- No CD needed
- Can play on multiple PCs (? - need to verify this)
...
- Save and game files are accessible and mod-able

The first is an intentional decision by the game producers (to punish and annoy legal owners) and hardly a system-imanent advantage of STEAM over disk. There are even today exemplary games (like Civ IV Complete) that offer "no CD needed" beyond first disk based installation as much as a STEAM version. And there are also ways to achieve this for Civ III. If you know where to look (a German Games maganzine that sold a budget Civ III CD with screwed up disk copy protection ), there are official and legal NoCD patches available for Civ III. It totally eludes me how anyone could prefer a DRM invested version with enforced and irreversible single-account-ties over the same disk based and DRM and account free. Once you don't need the disk any more for actually playing the game you can install onto as many PCs as you want or can afford.
I also don't really see how disk based installation files and saves should not be as modable as the STEAM version. The disk version comes with the same editor as the STEAM version and the save files are directly on your hard disk in the very installation folder you chose yourself ("Civilization III" => "saves" direcly or "Civ3PtW" / "Conquests" => "saves").

Steam CivIII disadvantages:
- Original/vanilla civ3 executable not present
- PTW executable not present

Sadly there are also disk based versions of Civ III that omit the executables for Vanilla and PtW.

I don't understand why someone would pay to download something.

I never will.

Btw. my thoughts exactly. I am adult enough to keep my valuable original CDs and DVDs intact and working for decades. I am also adult enough to deal with CD copy protections the way it should be and the way it does not annoy me whenever I want to play a game. But this online DRM nonsense really puts me off. If game companies don't trust me enough to really give me full ownership over what I paid 50+ bucks for, if they really think I am stupid enough to pay full price for a lend-and-lease agreement that they can renounce whenever the think it fits them then I am not interesting in spending money (and time) on games any more. The only thing I ever bought from STEAM is Civ V when it was cheap as dirt. Just to see if it is really THAT bad. It sure is convenient and user-friendly for anyone who is willing to accept DRM dispossession. But I don't accept it...

 

[tjs282]

If I might offer a third option. I purchased a digital copy of C3C from Gamersgate several years ago for $5.

And I bought it on sale for even less than that a couple of days ago -- thanks to Etain's heads-up here

While, like the Steam version, the executables for Vanilla and PTW don't work

If you want working .exe files, then it might be worth your while to download it again, because the vanilla1.29 .exe file that I got with my GG download does indeed work. (I haven't yet investigated where it's putting the save files -- there's no separate directory for CivIII vanilla, so possibly in .../Civ3Complete/PTW/Saves/ -- nor if I can use saved games from my previous installation of Vanilla Civ).

Haven't tried the PTW1.27 .exe yet, so I don't know if it works, or if there will be conflicts on saved games.

there is the benefit of not needing to log in to an account or be online in order to play.

Hooray!

I've been able to download the game several times on different computers without any issues and I've been able to keep my physical discs in pristine condition as a backup.

I saved the installation files on my hard disk, and am wondering whether it would be worth burning copies on a CD-ROM (along with a copy of the key that GG gave me for that download). Haven't done it yet.

 

[Quintillus]

If you want working .exe files, then it might be worth your while to download it again, because the vanilla1.29 .exe file that I got with my GG download does indeed work. (I haven't yet investigated where it's putting the save files -- there's no separate directory for CivIII vanilla, so possibly in .../Civ3Complete/PTW/Saves/ -- nor if I can use saved games from my previous installation of Vanilla Civ).

I saved the installation files on my hard disk, and am wondering whether it would be worth burning copies on a CD-ROM (along with a copy of the key that GG gave me for that download). Haven't done it yet.

Welcome [back] to CFC! On the topic of Vanilla saves, have you saved any games yet? I'm not sure that the directory exists before the first save file is created (and I'm pretty sure the Autosave directory does not exist upon install). Although I'm basing this on the CD version of Vanilla. Saved games from your previous Vanilla install should work. I'm not aware of any incompatibilities between patches of Vanilla (although my Vanilla is something like 1.07 when freshly installed, not 1.00).

If you have a regular hard drive backup, there probably isn't a need to back up the install files to CD, since it's unlikely both the hard drive and its backup would fail at the same time. If not, it couldn't hurt. I personally don't usually save Gamersgate install files due to laziness and not expecting an imminent demise of Gamersgate, but when I do I save them to my hard drive, which is backed up to another hard drive periodically.

 

[Theov]

How do I play my CD version... without the CD? I heard it's quicker, although I never have to wait really for Civ3.
Would this be the same for other games as well? I play Football Manager and takes a long time to load - would it help to play without the CD?

 

[Etain]

.....

 

[Quintillus]

How do I play my CD version... without the CD? I heard it's quicker, although I never have to wait really for Civ3.
Would this be the same for other games as well? I play Football Manager and takes a long time to load - would it help to play without the CD?

The mods Age of Imperialism and Age of Imperialism II come with the No CD, No Raze version of the executable when you download them. There's also a thread around here with a few other variants thereof. I'm not sure if there's just a pure No CD version with city razing and all the other jazz at CFC. Although Lanzelot's link in Post #11 may cover that. I downloaded it, but haven't done anything with the download yet since I already have a No CD (but everything else regular) version from non-CFC sources.

Edit: Added links to the appropriate threads. Note that no city limits is still somewhat buggy, if my understanding is correct - it works somewhat but not 100%. That thread should also have all the information you need if you just want no CD without no raze (provided you have the CD version, but not necessarily a digital download version. You'll still need the CD to reinstall, but not to launch the game). The main benefit of a no CD version is that startup is quicker since it doesn't have to do a check to see if the CD is in the drive. It's fairly minor if you're just playing the game. If you're modding something that causes a lot of crashes, it's really nice to have the no CD version, though. And no CD patch with the CD version beats the Steam version since the Steam version won't start immediately after shutting it down (Steam will think the game is still running for a few seconds and won't let you relaunch it).

The Civ3 executables can have any name you want. What I've done is left the default at Civ3Conquests.exe (with a copy called Civ3ConquestsOriginal.exe for reference), and have the no CD one as ConquestsNoCD.exe. Then I updated my Start menu links to point to ConquestsNoCD.exe. I also added a new Start menu link for ConquestsNoRaze.exe, for playing scenarios where it isn't intended for the AI to raze cities.

Edit: I just tried the PTW version of Lanzelot's download, but when I try to launch PTW, it still says it needs the CD. Is there anything unusual that's needed setup-wise? I just clicked through after making sure the Civ III install path was correct, since I don't speak German. PTW is the only version of which I don't know of a CD-less solution (and thus couldn't play in much of 2013 until I found my CDs a few weeks ago ).

 

[gps]

Edit: I just tried the PTW version of Lanzelot's download, but when I try to launch PTW, it still says it needs the CD. Is there anything unusual that's needed setup-wise?

Interesting to see that link survived. As Lanzelot already said, that link only provides fixes for Vanilla and C3C. If you want a fix for PTW you have to look elsewhere - you actually gave a good hint in your third link...

 

[tjs282]

On the topic of Vanilla saves, have you saved any games yet? I'm not sure that the directory exists before the first save file is created (and I'm pretty sure the Autosave directory does not exist upon install).

The GG installation automatically created (empty) Saves folders in the .../FiraxisGames/Civ3Complete/PTW and .../Civ3Complete/Conquests directories, but not for vanilla, oddly enough. That wasn't created until after I'd started a new game, and it's been put into the root .../Civ3Complete directory (where I also found the vanilla 1.29 .exe).

Previously, I had CD-based installations: vanilla (1.07 patched to 1.29), and an abortive Conquests installation (1.00 patched to 1.22, at which point the 'Insert CD' bug kicked in, and even after I uninstalled, my laptop still refused to recognise the Conquests CD). Nonetheless, saved games from both those can be imported and played in the GG installation.

(Not that I need have bothered with my in-progress vanilla Monarch Continents game: 2 turns later, the Egyptians handed my ass to me Having conquered their continent (the largest of the three -- I got the smallest), they launched their space ship before I'd even finished building Apollo, bastards, mumble I'll just chalk it up to experience -- and maybe play a little more aggressively next time...)

On further investigation, I don't actually seem to have got a PTW .exe from GG -- only the desktop icon for it Although they do have the manual in their library, which was useful, 'cos I could just skim that and the Conquests manual to find out what was new from vanilla, rather than trawling through the entire Civ3Complete manual.

If you have a regular hard drive backup, there probably isn't a need to back up the install files to CD, since it's unlikely both the hard drive and its backup would fail at the same time.

Yeah well, there's a problem with that first part... Also, I'll probably have to upgrade soon anyway, partly because my laptop's having more and more difficulty coping with information-heavy/ streaming websites (e.g. The Escapist), but also because WinXP stops getting supported this April