My Tips

[Jamesds]

Hello,

Through my times of playing CIV2, I have gathered a few tips of my own, which I have never seen anywhere so thought I'd post it here. Here goes:
1. When taking a city, always try to take it with the unit that lost the most hit-points, that way it will regain full hit-points.

2. Build Production cities next to the sea. Then when you get Offshore Platform, you may reap the production benifits of the sea!

3. Get the Great library, it should give you at least 10 advances!

4. Try to have a good spot for your capital, because that city might be just great for lots of trade, Isaac Newton's College, Copernicus Observatory, Collosus, Superhighways, Freights and 60% science on Democrary giving you upto 1000 beakers!! The science city!

5. (You need Democracy with 100% senate)If you are allied with somone, and they have a deadly enemy which happens to be your enemy too, but the senate signed a peace treaty, just talk to your friends. Soon they will ask to declare war!

Reply with your tips too please!

 

[duke o' york]

Here are some things to think about:

(2) This has the disadvantage that you have to wait for ages to build offshore platforms. If you get a production city with several hills then you get the chance to build factories much earlier than offshore platforms and can have a massive shield output. Coastal cities are best for the trade bonus that the sea gives you, not for the shields. A whale is a wonderful bonus early on though.

(3) Do not ever built the Great Library. If you want the wonder points then capture it after it has been rendered useless by Electricity. The new techs that you are given through the Great Library are very rarely those that you actually want, and your own research will slow down incredibly with all the extra techs. If you want a wonder and are researching the tech, then being given Horseback Riding and The Wheel through the Great Library will increase the cost of the tech you need for that wonder and will slow you down, meaning that you miss out on the wonder to another civ that already has the tech.

(5) If you want a civ to declare war on you in a democracy then just keep demanding that they get their troops out of your territory and they will eventually declare a war that leaves your reputation intact. It is best to have a blitzkrieg force in place to take as many ciites as you want in a single turn as the senate will always sign cease fires and treaties behind your back as soon as you talk to the civ you're fighting.

 

[Darius]

Duke is head-on with his resposes except for the outright blasphemy abotu the Great Library. It is the third most important wonder behind Mike's Chapel and Hoover Dam precisely because it gives you technologies you don't want.

For instance, you might be researching The Republic or whatnot and have no intention to study Chivalry, and then the Great Library gives it to you. Sure, you might not currently want Chivalry, and you may never want it, but you likely will want Miniaturization or Advanced Flight, and Chivalry is in the tree to find these two. I have found that in games where I never had the Great Library, I had Automobile, the Laser, and Nuclear Fission, but realized that if I wanted to build an offshore platform I had to research the route Chivalry>Leadership>Tactics>Machine Tools>Miniaturization to do so. If you had had the Great Library, you wouldn't have to waste 4 cycles of research, you would already have the 4 up to Machine Tools. This principle applies to things other than Chivalry which you may not want.

Not to mention that occasionally there are ones that you want which you deliberately did not research in your knowledge that the Great Library will give it to you anyway.

 

[TimTheEnchanter]

Originally posted by Darius
Duke is head-on with his resposes except for the outright blasphemy abotu the Great Library. It is the third most important wonder behind Mike's Chapel and Hoover Dam precisely because it gives you technologies you don't want.

For instance, you might be researching The Republic or whatnot and have no intention to study Chivalry, and then the Great Library gives it to you. Sure, you might not currently want Chivalry, and you may never want it, but you likely will want Miniaturization or Advanced Flight, and Chivalry is in the tree to find these two. I have found that in games where I never had the Great Library, I had Automobile, the Laser, and Nuclear Fission, but realized that if I wanted to build an offshore platform I had to research the route Chivalry>Leadership>Tactics>Machine Tools>Miniaturization to do so. If you had had the Great Library, you wouldn't have to waste 4 cycles of research, you would already have the 4 up to Machine Tools. This principle applies to things other than Chivalry which you may not want.

Not to mention that occasionally there are ones that you want which you deliberately did not research in your knowledge that the Great Library will give it to you anyway.

We must agree to disagree. There are several reasons not to have the GL. Because I can focus my research on getting key science improvements and wonders, I am usually first to most of the techs I want. Getting those "extra baggage" techs will only slow me down getting to Republic, Astronomy, Theory of Gravity and/or Monotheism. By the time I want miniaturization, I can rip off the prereqs in a few turns. If I play it right and get lucky, I might trade for chivalry and skip its prereqs altogether.

I also don't like to get feudalism before I am ready for it because it makes it so I can't produce warriors (which leos can turn into riflemen) and it makes it so I can't incrementally rush-buy the first row of sheilds for units in small cities. Invariably some warmongering AI like the Mongols and Vikings will rush to get it and if I have the GL, I get stuck with it when I have no use for it, and suddenly the cost/development time for a camel just went up.

 

[duke o' york]

Originally posted by Darius
If you had had the Great Library, you wouldn't have to waste 4 cycles of research

Which, under the power democracy, is what? 4 or 8 turns? And exactly how long would it take for you to build the Great Library? Slightly more than 8 turns, I'd wager. Research is simply better than stealing. At least with using dips you can choose which ones to grab.

 

[Darius]

Duke - in late-game, those 4-8 turns can make all the difference in things like the arms race or in competing do discover a wonder tech. For instance, what if you want to build SETI and realize you have to start at Chivalry to get Computers? By the time the "4-8" turns are over, a deity AI civ may have already built it.

Tim - you're right about Feudalism, I do warriors > Leo Musketeers too, so it's a *****, but the Leo question is the only disadvantage. Also, you should have three warriors in each city by the time anyone discovers feudalism anyway, unless you've expanded too thinly. Also, you did not address the concept of deliberately ignoring the ones you do want, which can be advantageous enough to outweigh the warrior problem. You talk about Astronomy, etc., but these can be gotten from the GL at minimal loss if you use it right, Finally, I do not understand this talk about "it will slow me down researching The Republic, etc." Is there some feature in the game I don't know about which resets your beakers when the GL gives you something?

 

[duke o' york]

I never build the SETI Program anyway, but I take your point that you may want to use those turns for something else. Why not just stacking caravans so you can build the SETI Program and whatever other wonders in a single turn? You talk as though you would lose the tech race without the GL, but the Power Democracy means that you are miles ahead by the Industrial Age anyway.

The reason people talk about extra techs slowing down your research is because of the way the game calculates the number of beakers required for your next advance. This is contingent both on the number of techs you already have and on the number of techs you have that your "Key Civ" does not. There should be a thread explaining the Key Civ principle on this page somewhere so I won't explain it again.
Here's an example: You are researching Republic. You have 12 techs already. The beaker cost is 100 and you're producing 10 per turn so that's 10 turns to discovery (all made up figures ).
On the other hand: You are researching Republic. You have researched 12 of your own and the GL has given you 12 techs so the beaker cost is now 200 and it will take 20 turns to discover.
This example discounts the key civ btw, but you get the idea that having techs you didn't want will push up the research cost for those you do want and another civ can be building the wonder while you are researching the tech.

 

[Darius]

Well, you're all right, and I'm close to changing my mind, but I'm still sticking with the GL to get the techs I don't want.

Which, under the power democracy, is what? 4 or 8 turns?

I must say again that those 4 or 8 turns can be better spent. Besides, I usually manage to build around twenty of the 28 wonders anyway, and I don't see why I should deliberately not build the GL, might as well. I'll agree to disagree, as this is becoming indefensible.

 

[Old n Slow]

Since this has turned into a poll for/against the GL, I'd like to chime in:

For newbies, the GL also acts as insurance not to get too far behind in the tech race.

For fundy lovers, the GL (with diplo theft) compensates for the science disadvantage -- and when in fundy the AI imitates & slows downs its advancments.

Keeping the GL out of opponent hands is worth a caravan or two.

For the truly advanced players, the GL will only bring a couple of techs your way -- you're that far ahead -- in which case this ranks only a little above Darwin's. In fact for those who are truly blessed -- have an ideal trading partner, chain of boats, repeatable hides produced from SSC to hides demanded customer-- and are flying up the tech tree, you can skip a lot of WoWs; enjoy a great game.

On the other hand, click return 20 times & give the AI a head start. Now with an increased challenge ahead the GL can help you recover the science while you opt for $$ to quick build your economy & protective base of operations.

 

[Jamesds]

I am completely for Darius with the Great Library. The only reason I have it is because I want to get the stuff I don't want. Just because I don't want it, doesn't mean I don't need it! I always finish the science race and discover future techs for extra points.

It doesn't take long to build, and then with all the techs you get, you'll be building Leo's Workshop in no time!

The GL is just great for that sort of thing!

 

[Darius]

Damn straight.

 

[Smash]

um...Great Library is very good in multiplayer games.Of course there are strategies to be employed against the Great Library owner.Sometimes it can be a crutch,but overall it is worth while as humans move thru the tech tree much quicker.It can hinder tech trading amongst an alliance also.

..cept duels

Nowadays,I'm lucky if I get 4 techs from it against the ai.And they usually come at the worst time.Embassys are more effective.Manually or via Marco's.

 

[Duke of Marlbrough]

I have the same experiance as Smash.

I use to build the GL all the time until I figured out trade.

Then I would only be able to get 2 or 3 techs from it (and like Smash said, usually at a time when you don't want them) before it expired.

I really hated getting feudalism when I was planning on my great Warrior to Musketeer plan.

 

[MajorGeneral2]

We've certainly learned that GL is the most controversial WoW! For me, I only build it if my cities lack good trade squares. Otherwise, it just slows down other wonder projects.

 

[Old n Slow]

"We've certainly learned that GL is the most controversial WoW!"

I think that the Pyramids also have a strong pro/con following; Hanging Gardens as well.

 

[bellisaurius]

I guess the question about certain wonders would revolve around people who converted from one to another.

For example, I used to never build HG because the pyramids seemed more important since they had a larger effect on growth. Now I feel the other way. My opening is far more painful without that one free happy from HG early on. I can build a horse or larger unit in a distant area before my city grows to size two, instead of either limiting growth by using trees, buying the unit and wasting gold better spent, or getting a garrison warrior when I know the barbs will be coming soon.

I could see GL being useful, but I typically am a civilized type, so trade and science are more my thing, so I'm rarely behind in a lot of techs.

 

[ArmOrAttAk]

I'm with Darius, absolutely must have the GL. Free techs from the trees you're not researching primary, denying it's benefit to the enemy, fuedalism is good. 3 warriors in every city!? I would have a heart attack from paranoia if my cities were defended by that. I never build more that one> 1warrior, phalanx, horseman. In fact fuedalism is my goal after literacy, vet sun tzu pikemen in all my cities lets my heart beat slower Meanwhile the GL get's me the prerequisite techs like wheel, mysticism, polythiesm, etc. Marco polo I can pass on, whenever somebody trades tech with it <pouf> thank you great library.
Your arguments against seem like they can work too. Just a matter of play style I reckon. Tempting though, I'm gonna try it out for a change.

 

[Darius]

3 warriors in every city!? I would have a heart attack from paranoia if my cities were defended by that.

I don't do that for defense, but I just do it to get maximum advantage out of the Warrior-Musketeer switch. In all honesty I rarely do that though anyway. Risky as it may be, I usually have a republic as soon as I get the tech, and therefore I actually only have one per city. Just bringing that musketeer rush possibility for those who use monarchy later than I do or communism at all.

 

[sethos]

From the Renaissance until the end all WoW are built by me. I stockpile caravans to rush build them - or I deliver these caravans to buy them. First for my score, second for their benefits (Cure for Cancer, for example, will raise some WE LOVE days in nearly every city of your empire, if you've got Mike's and Bach's too). SETI will fasten your research. For I'm playing landing on AC, it's important for me to get SDI (!!!) and Fusion Power earlier than the AI. I want to win with a complete ship to maximize my score (all structurals, modules and so on), and I don't want to be nuked. Normally, Manhattan ist the last Wonder I build. I only build it if an AI begins to build it and I can't prevent that AI from building it with a spy.

 

[Kev]

I've had mixed experience with the GL, and it's a wonder I'll not build at all now.

Some of the "pro" arugments make it seem as though researching and the GL are the only ways of getting technology. There are other methods of getting the "filler" techs, and without the GL it can be done on your own terms.

Early/Mid game trades can help supplement techs, and if they are useless ones being offered (or annoying ones like Feudalism) you can always refuse.

Early/Mid game warfare in almost inevitable if you play with a full map of rivals. Though you cannot refuse to take techs once you take a city, at least you can choose which ones out of the group you'd like.

Early/Mid game tech stealing is another option. Dips offer less flexibility as they are lost after the steal and you are not given a choice as to which one you'd like. However, dips and spies are great for getting those fillers that you now need to go further into other areas of the tech tree.

I leave out the late game stuff. Generally, it's usually possible to be far enough ahead that by the late game you can basically cruise. This is why SETI is so silly. Basically is guarantees that the civ who is so far ahead will stay that way.

The one argument I can see for the GL is that it keeps it out of another civ's hands. We saw this phenomenon in our democracy game with a certain civ. (That civ no longer exists, finally ) Anyway, the answer to that is to make a beeline to electricity and cancel out that Library ASAP or make that civ your first choice for extermination.