NAERALITH REBORN: New Civ 5 Design and Implementation Thread

[TheChanger]

im fairly certain there is a *helluvalot* of lua involved behind getting a new yield working propperly. i went through the CityView.lua file to add my specialists, and there was a lot of stuff in there regarding yield calculations. and id bet my bottom dollar there are other files as well that would need to be changed.

For the moment im happy to leave pigments as they are. Once Al comes back he should be able to figure it out reasonably easilly as he codes for a living

 

[TheChanger]

Ive now successfully added in Alendus

Now that i know how to add resources this should be a piece of cake

also i got a few more screenies as evidence that ive been modding! the fraeyalilly and alendus pedia entries, and the loading screen for Lewenkai :3

 

[rocklikeafool]

im fairly certain there is a *helluvalot* of lua involved behind getting a new yield working propperly. i went through the CityView.lua file to add my specialists, and there was a lot of stuff in there regarding yield calculations. and id bet my bottom dollar there are other files as well that would need to be changed.

For the moment im happy to leave pigments as they are. Once Al comes back he should be able to figure it out reasonably easilly as he codes for a living

Mmmk. That all makes sense. I've not had time to learn much of the lua coding language.

 

[Androrc the Orc]

Not only Lua, but also DLL code, which we don't have access to yet. For instance, it is not possible at this moment to make the AI take new yields into consideration when it makes it's choice of which tiles to work, or which specialists to choose.

 

[rocklikeafool]

Not only Lua, but also DLL code, which we don't have access to yet. For instance, it is not possible at this moment to make the AI take new yields into consideration when it makes it's choice of which tiles to work, or which specialists to choose.

Gah...hell. And, of course, we've no idea when they'll give us access to it either.

 

[Androrc the Orc]

Gah...hell. And, of course, we've no idea when they'll give us access to it either.

Well, they added the possibility for mods to change DLLs in the last patch, so it is probable that they will give us access to the DLL's source in the next patch.

 

[rocklikeafool]

Well, they added the possibility for mods to change DLLs in the last patch, so it is probable that they will give us access to the DLL's source in the next patch.

Mmm. Good. I think I remember reading about that, now that you mention it.

 

[Androrc the Orc]

There's also another thing. While the AI may not be motivated to use specialists and to work tiles producing the new yield, we can make it value buildings, policies and beliefs that produce it, through the usage of the flavor system.

 

[TheChanger]

is there any way that you know of to add a new flavor androrc? for example if we added the FLAVOR_MAGIC ....?

 

[Androrc the Orc]

is there any way that you know of to add a new flavor androrc? for example if we added the FLAVOR_MAGIC ....?

Yes, but I'm not sure whether the AI will take the new flavors into account. Some things (like yields and possibly flavors) get special treatment in the game's internal code.

 

[rocklikeafool]

Well...I'm fairly certain it wouldn't, because it's AI (and as a computer science major, I know computers [or AI] only do what you tell them to do). Hmm...we may have to keep the old flavors for now, until they release the dll.

 

[TheChanger]

well make it work

 

[Pazyryk]

Flavor is such a terrible AI mechanic anyway. It's really just a "punt" and not AI at all. A real AI should have specific agendas (these can differ to give them personality) and then they should build things based on some value calculation (taking agenda into account, but also potential gain from the building based on its stats, current yields and other relevant factors).

In any case, you can't presently change the dll to recognize your new flavor. However, you do have control of city build queue. Given that, you have two choices:

1. Code a real AI that accounts for actual value and different player agendas. This is a heck of a lot of work. (I know because I'm doing it for Éa.)
2. Add a random number generator with some player biases. This is a lot less work, but it will be just as good as the current flavor system (that's really all the flavor system is, anyway)

 

[PawelS]

Are you sure that the AI won't use a new flavor? I'm adding a few in my mod, but haven't tested yet how they work. They appear in the AI logs though...

 

[Pazyryk]

Come to think of it, I'm not sure. Yes, I'm sure you can add one as a table item. No, I'm not sure whether or not the dll will interact with it in any way. One possibility is that the dll reads all flavors that are defined in the flavors table (including new ones), and then acts appropriately. If so, this would be a departure from the way Firaxis usually handles these things. More often, you have specific "table types" that are not accessible to us. For example, if I add a new feature FEATURE_HELL, then GameInfoType.FEATURE_HELL will work properly but FeatureType.FEATURE_HELL will not. In some cases the dll is acting on these hard-coded table elements. In others, it plays nicely with new items (even though FeatureType.FEATURE_HELL will never work; but you should avoid this form like the plague if you are doing total conversion mod). From a coding perspective, they reason for the former (other than laziness or lack of coding time) may be speed optimization.

 

[rocklikeafool]

I'm doing a few tests on whether AI will use a new flavor over the next few days. So far, the city states are using it. But I'm still not 100% satisfied. I'll post more conclusive results soon.

(It'd make things a lot easier, I'm sure, for fantasy or sci-fi mods if we could have the AI use new flavors.)

Edit:
I can confirm that the AI civs are building Monuments. Hopefully, more testing this next week!

Of course, there will also be more modding! YAY!

 

[rocklikeafool]

I've finally finished all the resources. I believe TheChanger is going to add them to the mod and then we'll go from there. As I understand it, we can expect an alpha (or pre-alpha) release soon.

 

[rocklikeafool]

I'm sure you've all been eagerly awaiting news. Unfortunately, TheChanger has been sick. Hopefully, we'll be able to something for testing very soon!

 

[IlikeTanks]

I'm really excited for this mod, but i have one question and/or request I notice in your magic spheres that there is no real direct damage spell. This maybe a lore thing but iv done hundreds of hot seat RIFE games as the amurites and a game without fireballs scares me.....

 

[rocklikeafool]

I'm really excited for this mod, but i have one question and/or request I notice in your magic spheres that there is no real direct damage spell. This maybe a lore thing but iv done hundreds of hot seat RIFE games as the amurites and a game without fireballs scares me.....

Well, as of now, we haven't really worked on magic. We plan to add all the cool stuff. (I'm fairly certain we'll have your basic "fireball" type spell, even if it's not called "fireball", though.) Right now, the issue will be getting basic mechanics like resources and Civs and so on working. Then, later will come shiny UUs and UBs, magic, and lots of other cool stuff.