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'National College first' build - incredibly cheesy

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by Strategist83, Jan 23, 2011.

  1. Cronicler

    Cronicler Chieftain

    Joined:
    May 11, 2010
    Messages:
    12
    Why not drop the tradition and go the other way completely?
    Make the "national wonders" upgrades (replaces) to normal building (monument, barracks or mil academy, library) that costs just a bit more in upkeep with the same base output and a bonus output depending on the number of other libraries etc in your empire.
    This way you can build it early and as your empire grows so does the usefulness of the nw.
     
  2. joyous_gard

    joyous_gard Prince

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2010
    Messages:
    476
    I understand your point, and it's a good point, but the counterpoint is that the game is 'cheesy.'

    They made a cheesy game. It's not like this aspect of it is cheesy only. Trading posts throughout the ages on every tile is incredibly cheesy. No map trading is uber cheese. The cheesy feel to the cheesy game is what a large portion of the fanbase hates about Civ V. In IV and III people didn't get a cheesy feeling from playing the game because they tied the game more to how civilization progressed.

    I most always build the national wonders (except maybe clown college), but I make it a point to build them. Post-patch, I haven't been successful above King either and part of that is because I like to build the NWs. I spend too much gold on opera houses and stuff to be a real killer.

    Poor multiplayer. I don't play and too bad they can't build national wonders but I am not surprised. If I played multiplayer I would try to build an army, not NWs. Making changes to the game in the name of multiplayer balance would really piss me off because I think this is a single player game.

    I'm sure there is a middle ground but IMO cheesy-ness is the norm for V. "Civ V - Got to Love the Cheese." Should be the ad campaign.
     
  3. Strategist83

    Strategist83 King

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2005
    Messages:
    625
    It's the reading comprehension thing again. :lol:

    I was addressing the fact that you suggested nerfing the wonders. Hence why I quoted your post.
     
  4. Strategist83

    Strategist83 King

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2005
    Messages:
    625
    @ joyous

    If that is your stance - CiV is cheesy and failed beyond recognition - maybe it would be better to just move on to other games?

    I'm not too happy with how a lot of things turned out for CiV either, but to me posting like you just did is completely pointless. If you have zero hope or faith in the game and regard it as utter junk, move on.
     
  5. joyous_gard

    joyous_gard Prince

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2010
    Messages:
    476
    My point was that you should understand the cheese and play with it. I tried to address your concerns.

    1) You whine - "it's cheesy to have NC so early and only for smalls." I retort - "Yes the game is cheesy."
    2) You write - "how many build the NWs?" I write - "I do, but haven't had much success above king."
    3) You write - "Multiplayer is the best AI." I write - "This is a single player game. Multiplayer can GF for all I care. Changing a ruleset for multiplayer in a singleplayer game is ridiculous"

    I play the game, I post in general forum. Maybe instead of trying to get the ruleset changed to your liking, you should play the game and learn to adjust.
     
  6. Deussu

    Deussu The Omniscient

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2010
    Messages:
    167
    Location:
    Finland
    Browsing way too many threads at once causes me to derp quite a lot.

    Derp.
     
  7. FidelZandro

    FidelZandro Optimistic turtle

    Joined:
    May 8, 2008
    Messages:
    68
    Location:
    Netherlands
    It's not cheesy, there's just no logic to the preqreqs for national wonders.
    It would be so easy to change all of it.
    OCC? Only need one of everything.
    To build any NW, you should have build a few prereq buildings.
    Have enough buildings? You can always build, even if you just founded a new pop 1 city to replace that hideously placed AI one.
    But, on the other hand, if it's possible to build NC in 3000bc, i'll gladly build it :D
     
  8. Elenhil

    Elenhil Warlord

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2008
    Messages:
    254
    Sorry to sound trollish, but the only thing I find cheesy here is your fixation with the word National. It's a word, nothing more. Petition the devs to rename it if you care for words that much. They obviously took the first one that came to their minds. Other NWs are no less arbitrary in their naming (and graphics, for that matter; Iwo Jima in BC, you say? Scotland Yard BC in cIV was no less anachronistic in both naming and graphics).
     
  9. Harvestmoon

    Harvestmoon Chieftain

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2010
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    I don't like the "build x in ALL cities", but I don't think "build x/map size" works either, because them you set a minimum number of cities per map.

    NC (and things like it) should just require a certain amount of :c5science: (or :c5culture:, or :c5production:, or whatever) per turn.
     
  10. Misotu

    Misotu King

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2006
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    934
    Well no, I think "National" is not as arbitrary as you suggest. I think they chose it to distinguish those wonders that each civ could build, as opposed to those that were "Global" and could be built only once world-wide.

    In this sense, I think the terminology is apt and helpful. Apart from this small point, I agree with you that it's hard to understand why people are having such a problem with the word :)
     
  11. bryanw1995

    bryanw1995 Emperor

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    San Antonio, TX
    NC is still the best strategy most of the time, even on deity, you just have to get it out as quickly as possible so that you can expand sooner.
     
  12. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam Top Logic

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    Jan 26, 2008
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    I'm still waiting on quantifiable physical evidence to demonstrate some of those patched strategies were OP...and probably will wait forever.

    Which is a pretty big farce.
     
  13. Smote

    Smote Emperor

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2007
    Messages:
    1,170
    Personally I find that the national college adds a lot of depth, because you really have to decide how much to expand, and how fast.

    1. small # of cities, quick NC = maximum beakers, less hammers [Good for any medieval+ rush or non-combat based strategy]
    2. Skip NC, expand very fast -> large # of cities = less beakers, maximum hammers [Good for any ancient/classical rush]

    It makes for a tough decision, each with benefits and drawbacks. NC first is obviously very strong vs AI, since high level AI is usually difficult to conquer before longswordsmen.
     
  14. Airey

    Airey Prince

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2008
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    464
    There's a tradeoff, you can build it or not build it early.
    In noway is it cheesy like you described.

    You're only looking at pre-classical techs. Multiple cities out-tech this post medieval.
     

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