National highway system
- Thread starter dmanakho
- Start date
sealman
Hater of Babylonians
Milan's Warrior said:
That all depends on many square miles a tile equals. Not sure where you are from in CT but you probably are aware of the I-95 backups between New York City and New Haven, CT. In game terms I would consider that to be outside the single city tile.
Dell19 said:
I could live with this. Gives a little more use to a feature I normally do not use.
I'd definitely like to see Railroads completely reworked. The game is effectively over militarily when I get railroads connecting my cities, because at the point I can always reinforce any area faster than the AI can get to it.
I prefered the CIV2 method where railroads didn't provide much of a production bonus. So you only built railroad between cities, superhighways gave you the commerce bonus and farmlands increased the food bonus.
My proposal is the following.
1. Railroads provide a shield and commerce boost to cities if they are part of the rail network. (Perhaps more of boost if they are connected to a lot of neighbors, think of a rail/airline hub like Chicago.). There is a maintainence fee associated with a railroad say 1 Gold per 10 rail road squares.
2. Units are allowed to move from one city on the railroad to any other city. But that is their entire movement. So you can't zip from one city to another and than move and attack an enemy unit. Perhaps there is some limit to the number of units that can use a rail line like airports have for airlifting
3. Mass production allows you to build highways which increase road movement to 6, and provide a commerce increase.
I prefered the CIV2 method where railroads didn't provide much of a production bonus. So you only built railroad between cities, superhighways gave you the commerce bonus and farmlands increased the food bonus.
My proposal is the following.
1. Railroads provide a shield and commerce boost to cities if they are part of the rail network. (Perhaps more of boost if they are connected to a lot of neighbors, think of a rail/airline hub like Chicago.). There is a maintainence fee associated with a railroad say 1 Gold per 10 rail road squares.
2. Units are allowed to move from one city on the railroad to any other city. But that is their entire movement. So you can't zip from one city to another and than move and attack an enemy unit. Perhaps there is some limit to the number of units that can use a rail line like airports have for airlifting
3. Mass production allows you to build highways which increase road movement to 6, and provide a commerce increase.
@strollen
I agree with you strollen. I have always felt that it was quite tedious and ugly to have to build RRs everywhere due to the bonus. I would prefer to have RRs being just links that you built between cities. It would look much cleaner and eliminate tedium of building RRs everywhere. It really needs to be toned down.
I also agree that RRs are way way too unbalancing. With infinite movement and ability to attack that same turn, a single unit with multiple attack could achieve the impossible. You could move to east side, attack, then move to west side and attack in the same turn with the same unit.
There are many ways to fix this and your suggestion to make it so that it is not possible to use RRs and attack on the same turn would do wonders to balance by preventing the "one unit can fight on two fronts on the same turn" phenomenon that makes defense so easy.
I agree with you strollen. I have always felt that it was quite tedious and ugly to have to build RRs everywhere due to the bonus. I would prefer to have RRs being just links that you built between cities. It would look much cleaner and eliminate tedium of building RRs everywhere. It really needs to be toned down.
I also agree that RRs are way way too unbalancing. With infinite movement and ability to attack that same turn, a single unit with multiple attack could achieve the impossible. You could move to east side, attack, then move to west side and attack in the same turn with the same unit.
There are many ways to fix this and your suggestion to make it so that it is not possible to use RRs and attack on the same turn would do wonders to balance by preventing the "one unit can fight on two fronts on the same turn" phenomenon that makes defense so easy.
mtgfreak
Massing Artillery
i personally think that railroads should either have twice the effect or three times the effect of roads, with a national highway system small wonder that would provide the effect of railroads now, minus the bonus from squares that railroads normally give
Punkymonkey
Aspiring Archaeologist
I don't know because by they time you get that advance you have railroads all over anyway and it would become redundant. I feel that maybe if you change railroads to 6 or 8 tiles a turn and then give the highway system 10 to 12 tiles a turn it might make sense. You could make the freeway unlimited mov't if people don't like that idea and increase rail to 10 to 12 tiles but at your current suggestion i just donn't think it makes sense
Mupetti
Chieftain
I think its unrealistic that you can use RRs if you don't have coal. You can use RRs without coal, but you can't build them? Pillaging road from that Incan coal would become strategically very important, because after that they could move troops just like RRs were only roads.
The President
Chieftain
- Joined
- Dec 18, 2002
- Messages
- 14
1. I think a more graduated movement system is a great idea.
I like the idea of getting a small bonus early in the game for something like the Via Appea small wonder. Rather than doing it automatically, the wonder might make the paved road available. Workers would have to pave the road on each tile to give that tile a 1.5x bonus. Paved roads could be grey rather than brown.
I also like the idea of starting out railroads with less than unlimited movement, say doubling the paved-road bonus from 1.5x to 3x. One of the things that makes pollution so boring is no strategy is required to clear it. If workers had to be near factories early on, building them would have some consequences. Only in the modern era would unlimited movement arrive.
2. I'd suggest adding an additional gold per tile for highways, much as superhighways did in Civ 2. I'd also suggest working individual tiles and changing their color again rather than a single city improvement. Workers just don't have enough to do in Civ III in the modern era.
3. I like the idea of congestion as a game factor. Too large a city, pollution, and other factors would slow movement and reduce trade. This would require gamers to pay more attention to their build strategy. At higher levels, the AI should be able to be on to this and use it to their advantage in attacks. Most terrain which slows movement also confers a defensive advantage. Congested terrain would slow the defender's movement only, and with no defensive advantage.
I like the idea of getting a small bonus early in the game for something like the Via Appea small wonder. Rather than doing it automatically, the wonder might make the paved road available. Workers would have to pave the road on each tile to give that tile a 1.5x bonus. Paved roads could be grey rather than brown.
I also like the idea of starting out railroads with less than unlimited movement, say doubling the paved-road bonus from 1.5x to 3x. One of the things that makes pollution so boring is no strategy is required to clear it. If workers had to be near factories early on, building them would have some consequences. Only in the modern era would unlimited movement arrive.
2. I'd suggest adding an additional gold per tile for highways, much as superhighways did in Civ 2. I'd also suggest working individual tiles and changing their color again rather than a single city improvement. Workers just don't have enough to do in Civ III in the modern era.
3. I like the idea of congestion as a game factor. Too large a city, pollution, and other factors would slow movement and reduce trade. This would require gamers to pay more attention to their build strategy. At higher levels, the AI should be able to be on to this and use it to their advantage in attacks. Most terrain which slows movement also confers a defensive advantage. Congested terrain would slow the defender's movement only, and with no defensive advantage.
mtgfreak
Massing Artillery
would the mass transit system eliminate (or greatly reduce) the congestion problem?
maybe you should have to pay maintence (say, 1 gpt for 2 squares of railroad) for railroads to keep the amount of them down or you could allow only the first 5 or so tiles w/railroad in a city radius to get the extra commerce, although im not sure how that would work in an ICS
maybe you should have to pay maintence (say, 1 gpt for 2 squares of railroad) for railroads to keep the amount of them down or you could allow only the first 5 or so tiles w/railroad in a city radius to get the extra commerce, although im not sure how that would work in an ICS
Ryth
Chieftain
I like the idea about the graduated movement system - perhaps..
'paths' (x2) around your cities first, and between cities no bonus to movement (but makes it easier to build roads later {thin, brown line};
'roads' (x4) between cities after Map Making {thicker, grey line};
Chivilary (? better knowledge of horses, wheels?) allows roads around cities;
'railroads' (x8) between cities after Steam Power {as is currently};
'highways', after Motorised Transport, give an extra x2 bonus to military units since citizens use railroads less with private cars, and allow non-military to use RR as above. Also a bonus to commercial {no visual change}.
Just guidelines for the movement bonuses, but a bit more evenly spread through the eras. Colonies could have RRs built to them, and get the commercial bonus after highways.
This may be way off - I just finished a 10hr shift: need
'paths' (x2) around your cities first, and between cities no bonus to movement (but makes it easier to build roads later {thin, brown line};
'roads' (x4) between cities after Map Making {thicker, grey line};
Chivilary (? better knowledge of horses, wheels?) allows roads around cities;
'railroads' (x8) between cities after Steam Power {as is currently};
'highways', after Motorised Transport, give an extra x2 bonus to military units since citizens use railroads less with private cars, and allow non-military to use RR as above. Also a bonus to commercial {no visual change}.
Just guidelines for the movement bonuses, but a bit more evenly spread through the eras. Colonies could have RRs built to them, and get the commercial bonus after highways.
This may be way off - I just finished a 10hr shift: need
mitsho
Deity
@Ryth, ok, I know that in America etc most of the people use the car for farther transport (What is it like in New Zealand?). But for example in my country there are many many people using trains and local public transport. In Europe, they have about the same importance as highways (with the exception of the UK and some 'underdeveloped (in regard of railroads)' countries from the former east-bloc.
Therefore I wouldn't put highways higher than railroad!
And I suggest, that paths generate by themself (you otherwise have too much work for the workers (or the system of workers is also replaced)).
mfG mitsho
Therefore I wouldn't put highways higher than railroad!
And I suggest, that paths generate by themself (you otherwise have too much work for the workers (or the system of workers is also replaced)).
mfG mitsho
Bibor
Doomsday Machine
Hmm, another bright idea from me
*Make so that railroads can juncture (cross each other) only in cities. THis way you can get a railroad "network", but not all-railroad terrain. This also means that some cities might not have railroad access, which is also realistic.
*Units can move along railroads at road speed.
*create a new set of units called "trains".
-Transport train (can "load" units like ships)
-Amored train (something like cruiser)
-Train artillery (used to exist, huge cannon mounted on railroad).
-Maintenance train (builds the RR in first place, starts from city and repairs any damages later).
Trains move along railroads pretty fast (maybe like now infinite, maybe 2x road speed...). But are affected by hills (2x penalty, and mountains 3x penalty).
- Units can be unloaded and loaded at any segment (tile) of railorad (since tiles are large, stations are all along the way) but lose their remaining movement by doing so. BUT Armored trains protect them while unloading, loading etc.
Also, you could add a tile improvement which says "military railroad station" or something which could enable you for transported units *not* to lose their movement (i.e. thay unload instantly).
Also, cities connected by RR would get a hefty commerce bonus, especially with invention of electricity (electric trains) and later oil (diesel trains). Because just imagine how long did it take to take *any* commodity from San Fran to New York without a railroad? And how much less *with* it.
-bibor
*Make so that railroads can juncture (cross each other) only in cities. THis way you can get a railroad "network", but not all-railroad terrain. This also means that some cities might not have railroad access, which is also realistic.
*Units can move along railroads at road speed.
*create a new set of units called "trains".
-Transport train (can "load" units like ships)
-Amored train (something like cruiser)
-Train artillery (used to exist, huge cannon mounted on railroad).
-Maintenance train (builds the RR in first place, starts from city and repairs any damages later).
Trains move along railroads pretty fast (maybe like now infinite, maybe 2x road speed...). But are affected by hills (2x penalty, and mountains 3x penalty).
- Units can be unloaded and loaded at any segment (tile) of railorad (since tiles are large, stations are all along the way) but lose their remaining movement by doing so. BUT Armored trains protect them while unloading, loading etc.
Also, you could add a tile improvement which says "military railroad station" or something which could enable you for transported units *not* to lose their movement (i.e. thay unload instantly).
Also, cities connected by RR would get a hefty commerce bonus, especially with invention of electricity (electric trains) and later oil (diesel trains). Because just imagine how long did it take to take *any* commodity from San Fran to New York without a railroad? And how much less *with* it.
-bibor
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