National Wonders: what to do?

[VoiceOfUnreason]

I don't think it's dumb. But I do think that people who think that only one strategy is good are.

But going with IW+HE 99% of the time is the sign of a smart player? I think you are descending into the realm of self parody here.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

for Max military production you should go with IW +HE
because
The chance of you having 2 cities tied for top base production is small.
Since the benefit you get is dependent on base production... the best place to put HE will also be the best place to put IW.

However, the Closer the top two are, the less of a Quantity for Quality (HE+WP, IW+Red Cross) loss you are taking.

Of course that also assumes you will spend more two cities building Units.

The advantage of a HE+IW city is it allows you to have exactly one city building Military. (good for a Peaceful game as you might not get WP anyways).. of course that trade off means that IW is stuck in Military builds. Of course you can probably get away with just HE+WP if it is in a very good city.

Overall I'd say HE+IW is only useful
1. if you aren't getting West Point soon (no likely wars)
AND
2. if you need that large Army while your Other (decent) cities build civilian things

Good option for a 'continent to yourself' Cultural Win.. or even Space Race Win, if your other cities have good production. (especially on a Large Map, where it will take one a HE+IW production to maintain your army size if its the Only military city)

OR
You have one city that has Much more base production than your second most.
(This would work in a Domination/Conquest, especially if you targeted Cannons over Cavalry... and Had one Very Good City... You Settled Engineers there, etc.)

 

[acidsatyr]

But going with IW+HE 99% of the time is the sign of a smart player? I think you are descending into the realm of self parody here.

No, I’m actually not. Because I clearly said in my first post that there is no best and definite strategy here. Just because I prefer to play one way, doesn't mean I think it's superior to another style. I suggest reading again before making statements like those.

 

[Paeanblack]

Heroic Epic -- Build this someplace that has good production, right? Then make sure you keep the production up with forge, factory, etc.

Consider building this early where there is lots of food. If you have a city that can regrow one pop per turn, then your production can hit 112 hammers per turn with just Heroic Epic, Forge, and Globe Theater. At this point in the game, that's 10 regular production cities worth of hammers. If you save that Nat'l Wonder slot for West Point or Iron Works, which come 1000-1500 years later, you'll then have a city that's only worth two regular cities.

 

[Nares]

Consider building this early where there is lots of food...with just Heroic Epic...and Globe Theater.

Yes, that's some liberal editing. But it gets the point across that Heroic Epic is early, and can be linked with other wonders.

Generally, having a single city devoted to military production is never a good thing. You'd need to be at an extreme lack for excellent production sites to justify coupling Heroic Epic and Ironworks.

Sure, putting them together in the same city is an alternative. Then again, so is not building any military units at all. Which is to say, just because it's there for the 1-2 turn Modern Armors doesn't mean that you wouldn't be better off with two cities producing 2-4 turn Modern Armors (as many if not more, and potentially better).

 

[pigswill]

If you get the same production by running HE and Ironworks in seperate cities as one city then it comes down to personal style and preference.

 

[cabert]

If you get the same production by running HE and Ironworks in seperate cities as one city then it comes down to personal style and preference.

it's not just personnal style

there are some pure facts :
Fact 1:
Heroic epic comes early (most of the time), and you want to build units there almost non-stop.
Each turn where you build anything else is a turn where you lose the 100% bonus.

Fact 2:
You need more than 1 good production city. Be it for building wonders, SS parts, or more units.
If your HE city is your only good production city, you'll have a really hard time building anything, including the RC, WP, Globe theater, ...

Fact 3:
there are 3 different national wonders affecting military. 1 about speed (HE), 2 about quality (WP, RC).
Quality without quantity is worth nothing (not true the other way round : quantity without quality can be enough).
So if you want to put the quality things to a good use, you need to pair them with high production.
WP is obviously more flexible than RC, WP city needs ti churn out as many units as possible. RC city can also be used for other things (wonders, SS parts), but you can use a few marching (medic + 1 promotion!) units .


That gives an optimum configuration, where HE and WP are paired (barrack is needed too, of course), and RC is simply paired with a barrack and some good production.
Since you want to put IW in a good production city, and the major unit city already has all national wonders built, the RC city is a good candidate.
Not the only one though.
I'm going to try for a national epic / IW combination, with loads of GE

 

[pigswill]

Cabert: as you may see from my earlier posts I actually agree with you. However I'm trying to get out of the habit of singeing people who play different to me and there's more than one path to the top of the hill.

 

[cabert]

Cabert: as you may see from my earlier posts I actually agree with you. However I'm trying to get out of the habit of singeing people who play different to me and there's more than one path to the top of the hill.

true enough, and i didn't want to be rude

However, multiple paths going to the top doesn't mean every path leads there.
I'm pretty sure IW and HE is a loss.
The loss isn't obviously in the super producing city.
It's the unability to use WP and RC effectively.
That was my only point.

And i can understand that if you churn 1 unit per turn since 3000 BC, you can do pretty well without WP and RC.
There even is a high probability that you never see RC built, if you conquer soon enough.