Native farming via fungus

[GooglyBoogly]

I am looking to add an advanced Fungus/Natives section to my Comprehensive datalinks update and would appreciate it if anyone has a link to, or has done some research about "farming natives via fungus"
(This involves intentionally entering as many unexplored fungus tiles per turn as possible as to maximise the chance or 'discovering' a native lifeform within.)
I have a few questions about this.


1. - Does PLANET rating affect odds of a native appearing within a fungus tile?
2. Does the number of surrounding fungus tiles increase the odds?
3. Are the odds different if there is an improvement in the fungus tile (road, farm etc)?
4. are the odds different if using natives as opposed to normal units to explore fungus? What about alien artifacts? Do Aircraft have differentt odds?
5. Do any of the fungus related Secret Projects change the odds?

when I refer to odds i mean specifically the chance that you will get a native to spawn PER attempted fungus entry - I.E moving one tile.

just want to record here that natives captured within your territory are homed to nearest base - not independant

 

[Destructicon]

Regarding 4, I do not have any hard research to share with you, but my gaming experience suggests that normal (human) units are more likely to generate natives. Also, I believe that aircraft pass over, rather than through fungus squares, and do not generate natives (confident on that in regards to needlejets and missiles, not quite as confident regarding copters).

Good luck on your datalinks update project! SMAX has yet to be outdone in my book and it's great to see other fans are still into it as well.

 

[Begle1]

I swear that I've had a planet buster take out half my main bases once, while I was moving it from one base to another over fungus squares, and a worm appeared in the path, and so I accidently nuked it, on Ironman mode...

 

[GooglyBoogly]

If that is true, then missiles (and probably) needlejets would be able to 'discover' natives too. I might test this further at a later date, unless someone else can confirm or definately remembers discovering natives this was (remember, they will naturally hide in fungus), so the fungus tile should be only 1sq large, or else it might have some from somewhere else.

 

[GooglyBoogly]

Re: Aircraft and fungus, I tested fungus scouting with a Gravship, a needlejet and the missile chasis and could never force a discovery - I believe the situation Begle Describes could have been caused by a mindworm generated elsewhere that had just happened to move onto that fungus tile and was not generated by the PB itself


Well, it took me awhile but there is a post by Maniac at Apolyton that has a lot of the information I was looking for, called: Mindworm farming, a refined solution (post #7)

he says several useful things, but the information I am most interested in is the probabilities of discovery: He lists them as,

...
fungus unentered ever before = 1/3 per move
fungus unit has traveled through it before = 1/9 per move
fungus river = 1/9 per move
fungus road = 1/27 per move
fungus mono-rail = 0 chance
fungus within sensor radius = 0 chance
fungus within base radius = 0.00001 chance (had it happen once out of many many trials I did, and no I never pressed end turn to possible have let a mindworm move there)
...

* Certain SPs or techs can disable the random generation of mindworms.

The statement: unentered ever before is interesting, since I know of no such mechanic where the game checks to see if a tile has ever been entered before, and wonder if it is possible for the game to monitor the entered status of a fungus tile.

I was wondering if anyone knew of any of the specifics in relation to the probabilities (do they depend upon PLANET rating, or native lifeform setting (when the map is generated).

I would also be really interested in knowing which SPs and Techs can disable mindworm generation - this is something I have never encountered before!

 

[Petek]

I would also be really interested in knowing which SPs and Techs can disable mindworm generation - this is something I have never encountered before!

At one time I (and others) thought that mindworms no longer appeared after building the Xenoempathy Dome. However, that theory was debunked (see posts #10 and 12 in this thread, for example). Maniac may have been thinking of that.

It's also been alleged that mindworms don't appear after building the Voice of Planet. I can't recall whether or not this was confirmed.

Petek

 

[Maniac]

At one time I (and others) thought that mindworms no longer appeared after building the Xenoempathy Dome. However, that theory was debunked (see posts #10 and 12 in this thread, for example). Maniac may have been thinking of that.

You're just referring to a post by yourself, which doesn't contain any probability numbers. I don't call that debunked.

Also IIRC results using the scenario editor didn't always match real game happenings.

 

[GooglyBoogly]

Just to confirm. No-one (apart from kody) has ever experienced the discovery of a technology having an effect on the random generation of mindworms?

 

[Avelon]

Just to confirm. No-one (apart from kody) has ever experienced the discovery of a technology having an effect on the random generation of mindworms?

Well, technologies no. I will, however, say that the Xenoempathy Dome changes the odds to match 'Fungus with a road'. I'm positive of this, as I nearly always get it when playing as Gaians/Consciousness/Cult/University.

Also, I do know that natives have the same probability of triggering more natives as humans with Xenoempathy seem to. That is to say: Mind worms don't trigger natives as often as scouts do.

I have also never seen a chopper trigger any kind of natives. It doesn't travel THROUGH fungus because its movement type IS air. Point in case: It doesn't recover pods on land or in the sea.

There also seems to be a different rate of discovering units in sea fungus than on land. I very rarely run into sea fungus natives, but then again... I don't usually expand to the oceans until I'm satisfied with my holdings on land, so I don't know.

 

[vyeh]

There also seems to be a different rate of discovering units in sea fungus than on land. I very rarely run into sea fungus natives, but then again... I don't usually expand to the oceans until I'm satisfied with my holdings on land, so I don't know.

GooglyBoogly,

This is confirmed in the ACDG5 game at Apolyton. We had a foil that was trapped in a lake for many turns. We attempted to harvest an IoD and we failed to do so after ten turns or so.

 

[GooglyBoogly]

No IoD discoveries for 10 turns of scouting would not be out of the question even with the odds given by Kody

fungus unit has traveled through it before = 1/9 per move

A foil can travel through two fungus squares a turn = 8/9^2 = ~79% chance to fail
for 10 turns = (8/9^2)^10= ~10% chance to fail

i wouldn't call 10% odds calling for a different sea fungus discovery rate. That is just bad luck

You'll need more stastical analysis before I would agree that there is definately a different rate for naval units to pop natives in fungus

 

[vyeh]

You'll need more stastical analysis before I would agree that there is definately a different rate for naval units to pop natives in fungus

I used the scenario editor to create a foil transport about to enter fungus.

I ran the foil into fungus 100 times. No IoDs were uncovered.

Edit: On the same save, I also created a scout patrol about to enter fungus. I ran the scout patrol into the fungus 20 times. 2 mindworms were encountered.

 

[GooglyBoogly]

What year was this scenario set to? I am pretty sure that tthere are certain restrictions on when certain Natives can spawn (I.E No Locusts till late game, and I would think that there cannot be any IOD for awile either)

 

[vyeh]

It was set in 2100.

I reset the year to 2400.

Edit: For the IoD, I attempted to move into the fungus 20 times and I got 4 IoD's.

For the scout, I attempted to move into the fungus 20 times and I got 9 mindworms.

My experience in games other than ACDG5 supports Avelon's experience that a unit entering a land fungus square is more likely to generate a mindworm than a unit entering a sea fungus square.

Maniac's article covers land fungus squares.

So while there are more native life forms, both land and sea generated in later years, I think the evidence supports the proposition that there is definitely a different rate for naval units to pop natives in fungus.