Navy

[Ubermonty]

I was wondering what makes up a good modern era navy?
(and don't just say navies are useless, I just want to know what makes up a good one)

 

[DemonMaster]

I love ships (and I love the old game Harpoon or what its name was).
The size depend on size of the map of course, but I usually build one BB, two or three DD and one SS per coast. I define coast in this case as an area that will take some time to get reinforcements to. So it must be able to defend itself for a some turns before ships from another "coast" arrives.

If the fleet is going to be offensive I must add ships depending on enemy, but usually I add a CV (or two) and perhaps another BB (if there will be good opportunities for shore bombardments).

But then of course if I don't have so much oil then I skip BB ships and if I don't have any oil then I won't have fleet with offensive capabilities. This last issue can if course depend on the enemy, if he don't have fighters/bombers then the CV can be skipped. If the enemy has only a small strip of coast then a just a couple of escorts for the "marines" is needed. You actually don't need so much escort (normally), I usually use a DD ship or two to screen and a SS as an outer scout (early warning).

 

[Becomedeath]

Don't forget a Carrier, nothing makes your armada look the business more than an Aircraft Carrier carry sky based doom to your enemies!

 

[Redox]

This is a good modern navy:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Abraham-Lincoln-battlegroup.jpg

Carrier in the middle, missile cruisers on the sides, protecting carrier from air attacks. Destroyers and subs in the front to spot and attack enemies.

A good navy needs a good enemy navy, that's the real problem.

 

[DemonMaster]

Missile Cruisers, oh, I love them. The problem is that I rarely have spare Aluminium for it. I can sometimes build a Nuclear Sub. (also Aluminium) just to have a sub under the ice with some just in case missiles.

And I agree upon the problem that the AI don't build and use navy particularly well as often as you would like. I have only seen a couple of impressive (modern) navies so far (and I have played CiV since it was released).

 

[Sonereal]

A good navy consists of missile subs and missile cruisers with a couple of battleships for escort and Destroyers for coast guard. Aircraft carriers are pretty much useless after you get Stealth Bombers (which have great range).

Nuclear Submarines/Missile Cruisers are the best since they can carry some serious firepower. Nuclear Submarines especially.

 

[Becomedeath]

Aircraft carriers are pretty much useless after you get Stealth Bombers (which have great range).

But, but, but...Aircraft carriers are all about image...

And the ability to carry cheap, short range just incase you decide that a pirates life is not for everyone.

 

[Sonereal]

But, but, but...Aircraft carriers are all about image...

And the ability to carry cheap, short range just incase you decide that a pirates life is not for everyone.

But Missile Cruisers/Subs can carry the incredibly spammy guided missile.

 

[turtlefang]

I like a navy of 1 or 2 BBs, 2 DDs, 2 Missile DD if I have the AL - two more DD if I don't, and 1 CV and 1 or 2 missile armed subs. This gives the flexibility to handle any navy I've seen from the AI, put up a fight in MP, and support any amb landing I might need to make.

While I agree that the CV not always as useful after SB appear, I just like having it for the ability to project fighters into the "back area" if I have the AL - if not, I don't upgrade the fighters and to jets. Besides, what's a navy without a CV?

Now, if the map doesn't have much water, I usually go with 1 or 2 DDs and 1 or two BBs if I can use them for bombard around the map. Otherwise, just a token DD or two.

 

[The_Quasar]

But, but, but...Aircraft carriers are all about image...

And the ability to carry cheap, short range just incase you decide that a pirates life is not for everyone.

and such a huge target, you can't miss, such a waste of good navy personnel! add to that that they tie up more valuable ships attempting to protect them, and they are truly outdated! Any modern navy has alternatives that are better.

 

[Becomedeath]

and such a huge target, you can't miss, such a waste of good navy personnel! add to that that they tie up more valuable ships attempting to protect them, and they are truly outdated! Any modern navy has alternatives that are better.

By the time you're kitting out a large Naval force, what's a couple of support destroyers\subs?

I generally have my carriers travel in pairs with a combination of support fighters and nukes accompanied by a range of land and sea offensive vessels and never without a couple of subs of either kind with visibility upgrades.

Although I concede that for the more discerning combatant, the carrier is a lump that is only really practical until you have captured a city in which case it's entire operation is handed over to land services. And even then, you can do perfectly well without it.

I just like to be heavy handed

 

[MadDjinn]

But Missile Cruisers/Subs can carry the incredibly spammy guided missile.

unfortunately they can only carry a few each and the damage from GMs is a lot less if there is AA around.

So you'd have to use MC/NS's as way points to move the GMs around. Not very efficient. Plus, Satellites is right at the end of the tech tree. Should be able to win by the time you get there.

Frankly, I'd like to see both double their number of GMs available. make it so that GMs take 1 slot and Nuclear Missiles take 2 so that you can carry 8 GMs or 4 NMs.

 

[Sonereal]

unfortunately they can only carry a few each and the damage from GMs is a lot less if there is AA around.

So you'd have to use MC/NS's as way points to move the GMs around. Not very efficient. Plus, Satellites is right at the end of the tech tree. Should be able to win by the time you get there.

Frankly, I'd like to see both double their number of GMs available. make it so that GMs take 1 slot and Nuclear Missiles take 2 so that you can carry 8 GMs or 4 NMs.

How often do you run up against an AI with AA around?

Though, I agree that there should be double the slots with NMs taking up 2 slots.

 

[MadDjinn]

How often do you run up against an AI with AA around?

Though, I agree that there should be double the slots with NMs taking up 2 slots.

ok, pre-patch the AI had enough fighters and AA around. Though, even post patch, the AI will have some by the time you hit Satellites. It's not like they're going to be that far behind in techs. (unless mauled, but then you won't need a modern navy)

 

[DemonMaster]

How often do you run up against an AI with AA around?

Though, I agree that there should be double the slots with NMs taking up 2 slots.

To me it seems that the AI spams AA units a lot. Not like it used to but still.

I think they could increase the number of missiles that can be carried regardless of it is ordinary missiles or if it is nuclear. I mean unless you play Russia, turn your country into an Autocracy you won't have so extremely many.

And if you play Russia and turn your country into an Autocracy you have earned the power.

 

[Sonereal]

ok, pre-patch the AI had enough fighters and AA around. Though, even post patch, the AI will have some by the time you hit Satellites. It's not like they're going to be that far behind in techs. (unless mauled, but then you won't need a modern navy)

I guess I never ran into the problem yet. I haven't played a lot of post-patch games but the AI seems to love spamming guided missiles. But regardless, MC/NS is better than aircraft carriers still by the time Stealth Bombers pop up.

 

[Dedrytus]

+1 range, +1 visibility and additional attack per turn makes good navy You can add carrier or two to make things more spicy.

 

[starrywisdom]

How often do you run up against an AI with AA around?

100% of the time on deity if they get to the tech for it - which is the grand majority of the time(unless you are cheesing).

 

[MadDjinn]

I think they could increase the number of missiles that can be carried regardless of it is ordinary missiles or if it is nuclear. I mean unless you play Russia, turn your country into an Autocracy you won't have so extremely many.

Except that guided missiles are smaller than nuclear missiles. the SSBNs converted to SSGNS (non-nuke) can have 7 times the tomahawk missiles than the prior nukes since they can fit 7 launchers into the same tube as a former single nuke tube.

28 GMs might be a bit much, given it's a video game, but definitely there should be some more stacking of GMs vs. nukes on a sub or missile cruiser. Especially since a single nuke does far more damage (all 7 tiles lose units + all of the city damage if directly struck) than even 7 GMs.

 

[DemonMaster]

Except that guided missiles are smaller than nuclear missiles. the SSBNs converted to SSGNS (non-nuke) can have 7 times the tomahawk missiles than the prior nukes since they can fit 7 launchers into the same tube as a former single nuke tube.

28 GMs might be a bit much, given it's a video game, but definitely there should be some more stacking of GMs vs. nukes on a sub or missile cruiser. Especially since a single nuke does far more damage (all 7 tiles lose units + all of the city damage if directly struck) than even 7 GMs.

But perhaps it would be simpler just to increase the number by two instead of having two values. It wouldn't be do so much for game purposes anyway and as I said, it will probably be much easier to do.