NC CL Cyrus of Persia

[elitetroops]

The Nobles' Club series started out as a way for Noble-level (and below) players to improve their game. Most of the original participants now play at much higher levels, so this has become a way for advanced players to help others learn to play better. You can play your own game at any level and with any mod, but it would be nice to comment on the games of other players and give them advice.

Our next leader is Cyrus of the Persians, whom we last played in NC LXXVIII; we last played the Persians with Darius I in NC CXL. The Persians start with Agriculture and Hunting.

• Traits: Cyrus is Charismatic and Imperialistic. This is a strong combination for warmongers, CHA gives faster promotions and IMP gives faster Great Generals. CHA also improves happiness and IMP boosts hammers with 50% when building settlers.
  
• The UB: The Apothecary, a Grocer that gives +2.
  
  
  
  
  
• The UU: The Immortal, a Chariot that gets defensive bonuses and +50% versus archers. This is considered one of the strongest units for early rushes.
  
  
  

And the start:

Spoiler map details :

Ice Age, narrow continents

Finally, a cut and paste of our standard doctrine:The WB-saves are attached (zipped; they are bigger than standard saves). To play, simply download and unzip it into your BTS/Saves/WorldBuilder folder. Start the game, and load your favorite MOD (if you use one, if not, check out the BUG MOD), select "Play Scenario", and look for "NC 149 Noble" (or Monarch, etc., for higher levels). You can play with your favorite MOD at the Level and Speed of your choice. From Quick-Warlord to Marathon-Deity, all are welcome! We stuck with the name "Nobles Club" because it has a cool ring to it.

Spoiler what's up with specific difficulties :

In each scenario file you can select your level of difficulty, but that doesn't give the AI the right bonus techs by itself. Use the Noble save for all levels at and below Prince. The Monarch save gives all the AI Archery. Emperor adds Hunting; Immortal adds Agriculture; Deity adds The Wheel.

For players on Monarch or above, you should add archery as a tech for the barbarians (if you don't, the AI will capture their cities very early). This cannot be done in the WB save file and must be done in Worldbuilder as follows:

Spoiler how to add techs to the barbarians :

1. Zoom in all the way so you can't see the rest of the map.
2. Use the CTRL-W key (or the menu) to enter the worldbuilder. Avoid looking at the mini-map in the lower right corner.
3. By default you're in "player" mode (look in the box in the upper right; the icon that looks like a person should be selected). You'll get a drop down menu labeled with your leader's name. Barbarians are at the bottom, so cover the rest of the list with your hand if you don't want to see who else is on the map. Select "Barbarians".
4. Select the "Technologies" tab in the box on the left.
5. Find Archery (the arrow head icon; 8th row, 3rd column from the right) and click it.
6. Exit the worldbuilder.
7. Zoom out again after the map fades, and start playing.

Spoiler huts and events :

Note: The standard saves have no huts and have events turned off. If you want tribal villages and random events, choose the saves with "Huts" in their names. If you want huts but no events, select the Huts saves and use Custom Scenario to turn on the option that suppresses events.

 

[elitetroops]

Reserved

Spoiler those unfamiliar with the mapscript :

Ice_Age creates a cold world with lots of plains and less grassland tiles. There is also only very few jungle tiles. This might make the map seem hard, but remember that the AI also suffers from the harsh conditions, perhaps even more so than you do. There is usually a lot of resources, so it isn't all that bad. However, you need to carefully adjust your strategy and really play the map here. A simple "cottage everything" strategy won't work.

The narrow continents option creates something similar to snaky continents archipelago. It can be anything from lots of smaller islands with one civ each to one big snaky connected continent with all civs on the same landmass.

 

[blunderwonder]

Will play this later Oo, map script looks interesting Oo.

 

[blunderwonder]

Neat game, I suppose you could play it safe and peacefully expand... I decided to attack first chance i got

Imm up to ~230bc(i think)

Spoiler :

Went Right to AH for the sheep and to find horses, already had ag as well, so started with a worker, then mining/bw, decided to skip fishing as i wanted all production to go into chariots. Chopped 3-4 forest as well into them i think, but tried to avoid that as I figured with capture gold id try for some earlish wonders

My initial attack force, got pretty lucky on the first city, won 2x fights at like 32% odds, which were lower odds than I was expecting. I razed the city, because it was a low commerce start, and i had planned on going for lizzy after bizzy. Kept the capital ofc, and razed his 3rd city, captured 3 workers as well i think, in addition the 2 I already had

Get to lizzy and see the mine , She only had 1 spear and pretty few units, but the way the forest were, it would have taken me 3-4 turns to get to the mine, and with 3-4 cities, guaranteed at least 2 or 3 more spears/swords would have ruined me, as I had already stopped making immortals. In retrospect lizzy as a target was good and bad... but more on that later.

I decide to go for ramsses, I figured hed be pie, no spears, turns out he had 1 or 2 WC's though which were a pain. Lost 1 or 2 on the first city

I get to his capital to find it woefully unready, I had 6 in that stack, 1 or 2 in the previous city, and 2 more beside the big stack.. this city was cake, then on to his next city..

His next city wiped me out, this is because like a fool I was healing units, and decided to attack with only 4 Imms, 3 of them died, with 2 wounded archers left, and he whipped a 3rd, then id bring 2 more guys... etc, after all was said and done, I had only 1 Imm left lol, I thought of using him as a whipping boy, id pick up crappy techs, and get alpha from him when he was ready but i decided against it because it might have taken forever. After all that, wiped 2 guys out, kept their capitals, I was up to 6 cities with the 2 I had already made. I sent a workboat around to look for other civs when i got fishing, but no love, ice caps in the way or something.

A super late GLH, not sure how i got it.

Super late mids, i meant to fail this actually, with charismatic, already have a high happy cap, and gold/silver both will be online soon, that with monuments would have been great, but decided to finish it anyway.

Raggy had started plotting some time before, I had kept a scout around, and it seemed he was going after lizzy, thought he may have just as easily walked through her territory and ate me.. with a -7 peaceweight, this is bound to happen in every game. Its nice though

dotmaps.

I chose to go after thebes after bizmark because lizzy had iron, but also because the GW and a shrine... I figured +10 or +15 gold would really ease the burden, especially if I dindt get mids or GLH. Turns out it was a wimpy shrine though, with OB with lizzy/raggy maybe it will spread. I chose buddhism because they were both in it, and lizzy has been kind enough to spam missionaries to me, which will hopefully continue, because those last 3 cities dont have it, and have 2 religions each so it will be annoying doing it myself.

Lizzy had stonehengh though, but no shrine.. and it was pretty clear early on that raggy was behind her, figured shed be better as a meatshield than an early target.


So ill see what happens from here, it looks like lizzy has been teching like a monster with no help, I have been slow no doubt about it, I really thought the rush would offer more capture gold, but the cities were so spread out, and without fishing early I was getting almost no commerce, and im still not... Oh well with rep ill run scientists in every city, and cottage every spot I can. It may already be too late to elepult lizzy, Ill probably wait for cuirs or something. Not sure who else is on the map but if lizzy/ragnar stay at it awhile, I can lib cuirs and stomp them off the continent without having to work very hard at an elepult or anything like that.

 

[elitetroops]

@blunderwonder

Spoiler :

Knocking out 2 opponents AND getting mids+GLH... Not bad! I expected the AI to be slow, but not that slow. GLH probably has you covered and you should be able to keep the economy going despite the wide empire and low commerce.

Why didn't Rammy hook up that copper? I thought metals were very high priority for them...

 

[blunderwonder]

@blunderwonder

Spoiler :

Knocking out 2 opponents AND getting mids+GLH... Not bad! I expected the AI to be slow, but not that slow. GLH probably has you covered and you should be able to keep the economy going despite the wide empire and low commerce.

Why didn't Rammy hook up that copper? I thought metals were very high priority for them...

Spoiler :

I think some of them prioritize religion and their UU, he may have gone religions stuff and ag/tw/ah beforehand, and I think that was his 3rd city, the border had only just popped, tbh, it was a fairly quick rush, If horses had been in the bfc, i wouldnt have even bothered with a 2nd city, I was really only after capitals as the land is pretty crappy, its not bad, but lots of brown tiles and jungle.

The economy stuff will be interesting though, more and more im realizing the power of a gold start and things like that, its just that the last few games ive played even on immortal, all riverside, plenty of room. Even if I clearclut to get granaries/libraries and minimal barb defense, and spam early cottages, I can get out maybe 4 or 5 cities, maybe up to 8 or 9 with currency. But I always have trouble keeping up with AI tech speed, some of them are just quick i guess. You give them marble/stone and a start with lots of floodplains, and they can expand to 15 cities and tech like crazy while finishing 1/2 the wonders in the game. Its always kinda scary to watch zara or sury tech faster than a player can, and spamming twice as many cities while still managing to have a huge army and plenty of wonders.

In any event, im glad i kept lizzy in the game instead, she'll be a nice meatshield and trading partner until i can support more cities. Trying to get to aesthetics in a hurry, im not even that concerned about beuro because of my weak capital, but ill probably try to wonder whore, maybe parthenon and glib to start, would be nice to land MoM too but I doubt ill be able to tech that far Oo

 

[HeliosDisciple]

I just bought Civ4 a few weeks ago and I've mostly screwed around with Byzantium in the 1000AD scenario. This looks like a cool way to learn more of the game, though, so I'm gonna give it a try (on Normal speed and Warlord, with huts).

Spoiler :

4000 BC - Sent the scout around a bit, settling in place after seeing it's a narrow strip of land. I started training a Warrior for defense and went for Fishing to get those clams.

 

[Gumbolt]

@ Helios -No spoilers please!!! Others will want to play this too.

 

[HeliosDisciple]

Sorry.

Played to 900 BC, but I'm not sure how much detail I should give in these write-ups. How's this?

Spoiler :

Tech: After Fishing, I went for Animal Husbandry to harness the sheep nearby, then The Wheel for Immortals, Mining, Sailing, Pottery, Bronze Working, Writing, Math, Masonry, Alphabet.

Civics: Switch to Slavery on turn 49, right after finishing Bronze.

Foreign Relations: Met Frederick on turn 6, Elizabeth on turn 27, and Ramses on 32. Been at peace with all three, and have Open Borders with Germany and Egypt.

Cities: 4 total. On turn 40 (2400 BC), built second city on the horses at the base of the peninsula, trying to make it a base for the Immortals, I have a Barracks there and not much else - been pumping out Immortals.

A hut on turn 47 gave me a free Settler, but it wasn't in a great place, on the southern peninsula close to the tundra. I didn't want to risk losing the settler to animals/barbarians while walking back, though, so I settled almost in-place for city 3.

City 4 is brand-new (turn 74/1040 BC) - near the Egyptian border I saw some copper, so I sent over a Settler to claim it - there's also some stone just inside the border 1 turn away so I was thinking maybe I could steal it.

I've been building farms, mines and roads mostly around the capital, and getting work boats out to farm those clams. For my army, I have 5 Immortals parked outside Pasardagae and two Warriors as garrisons. No religion has spread to me yet.

I'm thinking about attacking England before she can get Redcoats.

Persia in 900 BC
I'm currently first in score, at 226.

 

[blunderwonder]

@helios, just looked at your sshots.

I strongly advise you to get BUG mod, and BULL to go with it. It'll take 5 minutes to install it, bug installs all by itself, BULL takes only a second if your somewhat computer savvy as well. If you plan on moving up in difficulties, its well worth it. They dont augment the game at all except to make things easier to see. Lots of great information on screen all the time, like which civs are plotting, when trades become available, the trade screens etc are improved, it stops all the chopping at 1 turn left so you can prechop them and then come back if you want etc. Something i tell to everyone who is new to civ4fanatics.

as for me...->

Spoiler :

Played up until nationalism, raggy has declared on lizzy again which is nice, I have also been using old techs after each war to get raggy to stop trading with lizzy, their peaceweights are such that raggy is cautious with lizzy always so I just keep them from trading so he doenst get any more bonuses besides religion/civics. And lizzy hates him now because of a spy and -6 from 2x dow's. I think using old tech to keep them isolated is a good deal on this map, maybe better routes for me, and makes lizzy a better meatshield.

I have also met mao, but not whichever mongolian leader is on his map, hes terribly backward, didnt even have lit while im pumping out cuirs. Ill probably finish this map somewhat quickly from here. I may try to tech to nukes as its been awhile. My slider has been at like 20% all game lol, I finally did manage to whip in some courthouses but it didnt help as much as id hoped it would. Really would like that buddhist shrine... Even with GLH and being at 1000AD+ my hindu shrine has only spread to +4 gold lol... WTH is that

 

[elitetroops]

@Helios

Spoiler :

As it is one of your first games, I won't go too deeply into strategy and optimizing play and other stuff. Much better for you to first try things out and explore the features yourself in my opinion. You seem to be in a good position to win this game at Warlord anyway.

All I'm gonna say at this point is that those 5 immortals won't do you much good just sitting outside a city. Units cost gold in upkeep and when you build them you should use them. You seem to have just passed through Egyptian territory. What defenses did he have in his capital? Perhaps something that 5 immortals could handle?

 

[Packers5280]

To 925 BCE

Spoiler :

Went AH>TW>mining>BW>writing>sailing

Germany is no more. Hamburg was on that hill, so it was tough to crack. For some reason I kept it. In retrospect I should've razed it. Really worthless until calender for the bananas. 2W would have been MUCH better, grabbing the Au. I kept Berlin and razed a northern city. Taking Hamburg was interesting. I killed all of his archers, but I didn't have enough immortals to take out the scout that he whipped the turn earlier. The next turn, I expected the scout to stay put, but it left the city. I can't complain too much though, it was a nice walk right in and take it.

I'm going for a late GLH, probably in berlin as it has the most forests in the BFC, but I'll need a border pop, although I should've started going for it right after BW as trade routes will be difficult to set up with workers, but if I explore their territories sailing will help with that. A barb city is blocking the path to England and Egypt, which would make a good block city, but my enomomy is hurting too much for me to take it. Maybe after I get the GLH, if I do so, if not after I get currency if it hasn't fallen yet. Its got 5 archers, so it may stand for a few more centuries.

Stack on declaration of war:

Spoiler :

[/URL][/IMG]
I believe he had 3 archers in Hamburg.

Current empire:

Spoiler :

[/URL][/IMG]

 

[Learner]

1470 AD/Monarch/Marathon/Conquest/Huts+events

Spoiler :

Took two cities from Frederick and two cities from Ramses, but didn't finish them. Gained The Great wall from Ramses. Oracle'd Metal casting, wiped out Ramses and Frederick. Vassalized Elizabeth with the help of Ragnar and after that backstabbed him before he managed to react. I had to start war against him three times before he capitulated since I hadn't built enought siege. After that I used my leftover knights and elepults to take down Mao (I got Astronomy from Lib) and after that I upgraded knights into Cuirs and attacked Kublai.

New things learned: AI: city placement is horrible (Mao didn't built a city which could make use of his Gold resource)
Capitulated Vassals can break free on the same turn you capitulate them. I demanded that Mao converts into my religion and after that I demanded his resources -> war.

Score: 183628

 

[dalamb]

Hmm. Not a lot of activity on this one. I think that's been true of several of these lately.

 

[matthew9890]

Initial Thoughts:

Spoiler :

I think I'll give this a go on Epic-Prince. My first thought from looking at the starting location is to SIP since the location gets the 3 food resources as well as the health benefit of the river, though I'm a bit disappointed that I'll miss out on settling on a plains hill. Now the question is initial build order. I think I'll do the normal worker->warrior->settler (when I get to 3 pop) and get the worker to farm the corn. Should I try to build a work boat before the first settler? This isn't relevant to this start since I don't have fishing but IF I had started with fishing is it ever a good idea to start with a fishing boat?

 

[dalamb]

@matthew: no need to spoiler stuff that's based entirely on the opening screenshot. In response to your question: in a seafood start I often build a workboat first, which lets the city grow a bit, then work the seafood while building a worker. It may depend on what worker techs you start with. I seem to recall someone doing a first-20-or-so-turns calculation of exactly which was best on a particular map, but don't recall which game that was for.

 

[matthew9890]

To 10 AD

Spoiler :

Not sure exactly what I'm supposed to talk about or how much detail to go into so I'm just giving a brief rundown of what has happened so far.

Sent the scout 1N of the Settler before settling and saw another clam that would make up for the one that I lost if I settled the Plains Hill so I decided not to SIP and instead settled 1N on the plains hill with the river. 2nd Clam is being worked by my second city, since food has been scarce but I still think it was a reasonable decision.

Found Fredrick very quickly and decided that him and I were too close together and started getting ready for war, I built my second city close to the horses and started building immortals. I figured that Berlin would probably have 2 archers on it so I built 6 Immortals and attacked. Berlin actually had 2 archers and a warrior and I think I was unlucky that I failed to take it in the first turn of attack, one of his archers survived. It ended up taking 3 turns of attacking to take the city he must have whipped the city and had overflow because he managed to build 2 archers in 2 turns and I just managed to take the city with a 50/50 chance attack on the third turn.

Unfortunately Fred had managed to build a second city on a gold-plains hill to the south of Berlin which annoyed me because 1) extra defense of the hill and 2) I would just end up burning it down so I could settle the city somewhere I could work the gold. By the time I had built some more Immortals to attack the city Fred had 4 archers defending the city so I had to build even more Immortals. I ended up attacking the city with 9 immortals against 5 archers and a warrior, I was surprised that they managed to take the city so easily, I only lost about 3 of them.

Question time: I built a barracks in both the cities that I was building Immortals in and gave most of them the combat I promotion. Do you think it's worth doing that? And is it better to rush out a smaller number of troops (maybe using chopping) and try to attack earlier, maybe before the AI settles a second city?

I built the Oracle during my war (1150 BC it was completed) and got CoL for FREE Haven't done too much since that, I built a couple more cities and started to try and fix my slow slow slow tech rate, this map full of plains has really hurt my tech speed

This is my empire as of 10 AD:

Any advice or tips would be appreciated

 

[matthew9890]

@matthew: no need to spoiler stuff that's based entirely on the opening screenshot.

Yeah, my bad, everyone else was doing it so I did

Thanks for the advice, I'll try it next time I start with fishing and fish

 

[elitetroops]

Spoiler :

Question time: I built a barracks in both the cities that I was building Immortals in and gave most of them the combat I promotion. Do you think it's worth doing that? And is it better to rush out a smaller number of troops (maybe using chopping) and try to attack earlier, maybe before the AI settles a second city?

Spoiler :

On the higher levels it's quite impossible to attack before the AI has expanded to 2 or 3 cities, but that's not much of an issue. After all, the cities are yours anyway. Though it's unlucky if the AI builds an early city in such a spot that it needs to be raised...

Regarding barracks, all is situational, but I would probably not try to get them in all cities when doing an early rush. Barracks in one city for a few stronger initial attackers is good, but when mopping up injured defenders it rarely matters much if you have that C1 promotion or not.

As for your slow tech rate, is the Great Lighthouse built yet? (No idea how soon these go on Prince..) As you have mostly coastal cities, that would be a very strong wonder for you. And if you can't generate enough commerce for teching, there are other ways as well. You don't seem to be working any specialists anywhere. Do you have any plans for Great People?

@Learner: Nice date and score! Congrats!

 

[Izuul]

Thoughts after 13T (Immortal):

Spoiler :

I settled 1N on the PH for the extra hammer. Settling revealed sheep so this was a good excuse to go for AH knowing that NC games usually provide nearby strategic resources for UUs (horses in this case). Horses were just revealed to the NE and my first worker is complete. There looks to be a nice clams + gold + horses site to the N, but that would require changing my intended city spot to get the horses in the 1st ring. I was planning to settle 2nd city 1SW of the gold, but now I'm not sure.

The GLH looks very tempting in this game. I see a lot of potential for coastal cities so far.