(NEED FEEDBACK / Final Question?) When do you run out of difficult building choices?

[dh_epic]

Besides being the last question this question is also the most subjective question I'll ask.

By difficult, I mean that you really have to be careful about what to build first. Do you need more defence, or can you afford to build a wonder? Should you build the library first, or get the forge first?

Ultimately, the question comes down to "is there a moment in the game where you eventually run out of things to build, so you really only have to follow an obvious path until the end of the game."

The answer, for many of you, might be "I don't run out of difficult building choices. There's always something to build, and I always need to be careful to build the right thing at the right time."

For others, you'll say "Yeah! I totally know what you mean, somewhere in the middle of the game, I no longer have to worry as much about building the right thing at the right time. At this point, I shift towards a very linear building order."

Like I said, VERY subjective. This subjectivity is not just acceptable, it is desired.

Here's a few other guidelines, to help get some consistency between peoples' answers:

• The map is neither huge nor tiny.
• The map is not a Pangaea.
• The map is not an archipelago.
• Do you build lots of cities, or fewer cities?
  • Does this affect the moment you run out of difficult building choices?
• Do you care about some cities more than others?
  • Does this make your building choices less difficult in some cities?
• How does your preferred technology path affect the timing and number of things you can build?
• We're mostly talking about buildings and wonders (and less so choosing between different units).
• Overestimate. If you can't decide if it's sooner or later, pick later.

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Extra Note:

Some people were a little unclear. This comment (from below) might give you food for thought:

I find that even at the highest difficulties, there's STILL a turning point in the game where I no longer have to make those difficult building choices. It seems like around the renaissance, I research one thing, build the building, research the next thing, build that building... gameplay starts to thin out and become very linear.

Whether you agree, slightly agree, or disagree, let this comment give you a a point of reference. Obviously there are always things to build (including military), but the question is if/when you run out of interesting choices for city improvements / buildings.

 

[dh_epic]

I honestly have no clue how this question will go. Some of you won't understand what I'm asking because it won't be relevent to you. The idea that there is a moment in the game where you "run out" of things to build is VERY subjective, since your cities technically never go idle. It really depends on when you get bored, or when you feel the strategy has stopped depending on what you build in your cities.

For this reason, I might ask a 7th or even an 8th question.

If you can think of any other turning points with how you manage your cities, or if you think there might be another question I should ask, feel free to suggest it.

Anything else about building choices is welcome -- discuss, criticize, comment.

 

[dh_epic]

Woops, here's the old survey question, in case anyone is curious / interested:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=179395

 

[apopholeus813]

I think that if in the middle of a game you find that your choices don't matter and that victory is assured than you need to step up the difficulty level. Yeah in any era mopping up a sure thing is boring, but if you win very early than personally I think you should change difficulty level, game conditions etc. One of the beauties of Civ is that there's always a challenge.

 

[MrCynical]

I'll practically never run out of difficult building choices. I consider it an indication you are playing on too low a difficulty level if you do.

I tend to build a relatively small number of cities, but since there's always units to build I'll never be that short of choices. Some cities are always going to be less important (and productive), so I won't put as much thought into them.

 

[The Great Apple]

Occasionally I do if I take a slightly strange path up the tech tree, but when I get back into the mainstream tree I always have stuff to think about.

 

[Zavior]

You can not have enough military.

 

[dh_epic]

I find that even at the highest difficulties, there's STILL a turning point in the game where I no longer have to make those difficult building choices. It seems like around the renaissance, I research one thing, build the building, research the next thing, build that building... gameplay starts to thin out and become very linear.

 

[Spartan117]

I find that even at the highest difficulties, there's STILL a turning point in the game where I no longer have to make those difficult building choices. It seems like around the renaissance, I research one thing, build the building, research the next thing, build that building... gameplay starts to thin out and become very linear.

same here...

 

[dh_epic]

Giving this a bump. This one is a bit tricky, since it's probably the most subjective. A bit of a pattern is emerging, but it will take a while to really confirm it.

Keep the votes coming!

 

[Jaca]

Playing Monarch games mostly on standard maps, and on the previous question answered my landmass is covered pretty much around 800AD. For more recent cities, or newly conquered ones, I will have to think a bit about the building order, so I have answered after 1400AD. Newly conquered ones usually get a granary and theater first to speed up growth and culture in order to not flip back easily. After that I pretty much don't care too much. There's some core cities I care for, the rest far less.

Science buildings and some markets/grocers/banks are my highest priority in my core cities once I discover the required tech.

It seems like around the renaissance, I research one thing, build the building, research the next thing, build that building... gameplay starts to thin out and become very linear.

That sounds like a good description.

Jaca

 

[kristopherb]

You can not have enough military.

what if your military is costing you to much

 

[dh_epic]

Bump, plus an edit to the main post for some clarification.

This one is turning out to be quite interesting!

 

[Aussie_Lurker]

Yep, usually around the mid to late industrial, I am often finding myself with little new to build. In one MP game, I was stuck building Jails-even though I wasn't at war with anyone . Now, if jails provided other benefits, then maybe that wouldn't be so bad, but it still would be nice to see the variety maintained right up into the late-modern era.

Aussie_Lurker.

 

[dh_epic]

Yeah. There are some buildings that you build only for busy work, I find, rather than some deep strategic need.

To everyone else, whether your experience is similar or drastically different, we need your votes to get a reliable result!

 

[cfacosta]

Hey Epic! It's been a while since I have been on the forums. I just moved to my new job in Pittsburgh so I have had a lot of things keeping me occupied.
Anyways, I picked up Warlords as soon as it came out and have had some time for a few good games. As far as I can tell, the overall flow of the game has not changed much so my answer to your question will be the same expansion or no.
In general, I will run out of buildings to construct very early in the game due to the techs I concentrate on. Warmonger techs are usually sparce on building options! That is not my answer, though. I think what you want to know is when do the decisions become less difficult, ie less important in my mind. This always starts to happen around the time factories are available. (I voted the 1700's) At the point my cities don't spam numbers like 20+ turns for buildings, I start to lose interest in optimizing the build order. It just becomes factory -> power plant -> everything else. My war machine cities have already been optimized by this point and will likely never complete half the buildings in the game anyway. Hope that answers your question.

 

[Jeckel]

I'm kinda spilt on this one. I voted for 1940 cause that is about the time my main cities are done with all their building and only have weath and units left to build. And about that time is when I'm really wishing for a CTP type queing system for my second or third teir of concorded cities and I really just don't care any more and would almost rather raze the city then start building a theater or factory in it.

To be honest I miss read the question slightly and was thinking about when I acually run out of non infinte things to build and intrest to build them.

But now that I've had a minute and really thought about all the subjective factors I have to take a diferent tack.

The most important factors imo are difficulty level, specificly the speed AI's can build things in their cities, and the level of barbarian spawning.

I play most of my games on Immortal or Deity, small/tiny/duel maps with 6 to 12 AIs, raging barbarians, and aggrasive AIs.

With the raging barbs you know you got like 15 turns before the barb every other turn tide starts so you got to get that first unit out, if your playing on Quick or normal you might even be able to get a settler OR a barracks out, maybe both if you got a good start.

Once the tide starts your lucky if your keeping your main few tiles unpillaged and still building more units then you lose. But if you pick your buildings right, somthing to get culture going (obolizk), the barracks, market for money, temples for happyness, ect, ect.

Now I'm not saying there isn't decisions you have to make, do I build the baraks first or do I get the granery first so I can use slavery more. But the bottom line is if you play by the numbers your build choices at any given time are pretty apparent.

Personally the only real building decisions I ever have to make is whether to try for a wonder or just let the computer have uncontested. If I'm lucky I can usually get one of the first wonders if I hurry and start it right after I pump out that first settler or I might on occasion be able to pick up a left over wonder in the later eras.

Other then that there is only the occational, "Do I hurry the warrior or the walls before the barb attacks next turn" kind of things.

Well thats it for my ramblings

Thanx for doing these surveys dh_epic, they've been fun.

 

[dh_epic]

Factories seems like a pretty reasonable place to put it. I find it happens even sooner, just after Observatories become available. By then, things become MUCH more linear, with only my outlying cities having to play catch up (and even then, the outliers aren't important enough for me to really think too hard about the build order... anything I REALLY need will come from my core cities).

I definitely see Jeckel's reasoning that an expert player will stop making hard choices about buildings and will have to build based on habit and necessity. I was afraid of that :S But the survey is still showing a healthy spread, with a nice spike in the middle.

With a few more votes, I should be able to close this one off.

 

[Crayton]

Around 1400 I start building in a more or less linear pattern, or whatever the computer suggests I build next. When I first get factories I put them in my core cities immediately, but hold off in my outer cities for about 20 more turns. I don't know why, but this is the final example of my making a conscious choice on what to build.

 

[MrCynical]

Seems to have been a bit of thread necromancy going on here. Any chance of finding out your conclusions from your questions dh_epic?