Damn, this game makes my brain explode. I have never played such a reasoning-intensive game. I don't know if this makes me ******** or anything because I surely feel like I am. I played about ten games on Chieftain and lost every time. It really ticks me off how the computer seems to research even faster than me and manage to be a formidable opponent. Gosh, how the hell am I supposed to beat the computer on higher levels if I can't take good advantage of the 200% build rate? And yes, I read part of the stinkin' manual.
Need help beating Chieftain
- Thread starter PlasmaGun
- Start date
- Joined
- Mar 17, 2007
- Messages
- 9,308
Have you seen the Civilization III War Academy? There ought to be some really useful articles in there; hopefully after reading a bunch of those you'll see your performance increase.
My #1 error early on was not building nearly enough cities. Based on how I've seen other people play, I think that's a fairly common error. This City Placement Guide might be one of the more useful articles in the academy (my preferred strategy is about 70% Optimal City Placement, 30% Loose City Placement - I've used it successfully as high as Monarch).
I also wouldn't be surprised if you're sorely lacking in the number of workers - if your cities are consistently working unimproved tiles, you need more workers ASAP.
Getting a quick early start also is important. Generally, a good time to start building your first setter is whenever your city finishes whatever it was working on when it reached size 2. But make sure you aren't building something costing any more than a barracks to start the game - it's great to have the Colossus right away, but waiting until you have 2 cities to start building it will be far more worth it.
If you read all the articles in the War Academy, you'll probably be better than me before long! I didn't find CFC until 3.5 years after I started playing and have only read a few of the articles so far.
And if you want a detailed analysis of what is going wrong in your games, post some screenshots, or better yet a saved game. Photobucket works well for screenshots; the CFC Upload system is great for saved games.
My #1 error early on was not building nearly enough cities. Based on how I've seen other people play, I think that's a fairly common error. This City Placement Guide might be one of the more useful articles in the academy (my preferred strategy is about 70% Optimal City Placement, 30% Loose City Placement - I've used it successfully as high as Monarch).
I also wouldn't be surprised if you're sorely lacking in the number of workers - if your cities are consistently working unimproved tiles, you need more workers ASAP.
Getting a quick early start also is important. Generally, a good time to start building your first setter is whenever your city finishes whatever it was working on when it reached size 2. But make sure you aren't building something costing any more than a barracks to start the game - it's great to have the Colossus right away, but waiting until you have 2 cities to start building it will be far more worth it.
If you read all the articles in the War Academy, you'll probably be better than me before long! I didn't find CFC until 3.5 years after I started playing and have only read a few of the articles so far.
And if you want a detailed analysis of what is going wrong in your games, post some screenshots, or better yet a saved game. Photobucket works well for screenshots; the CFC Upload system is great for saved games.
Rising Star
Warlord
Also, be sure to stay away from early wonders. It may seem like a good idea to keep the AI away from the Pyramids, but it's much easier to let it build them, then simply conquer it. Ision has a great article here on how to avoid "Wonder Addiction" as he calls it. Like he says about himself in the article, I would have cut about three months off my time at each level if I had a guide like that when I started this game. Read this and other articles, and you'll be raping the AI in no time.
Bardak
Chieftain
If you want you can post some starting game pictures so we can give you some advices on the very early moves.
RFHolloway
Analyst in the UK
Good points for beginners are
1 Build more roads - helps you move your troups around more, so you need fewer (and non necessarily in every city) helps research (+1 commerce to worked tiles)
2 Build more workers - helps with 1 above also helps with irrigating and mining (you will want to irrigate brown squares and flood plains, and mine the green ones, chopping forrest can help with a one time sheild boost to the nearest city)
3 Grow your cities fast - that means concentrating on food 2 surplus food is much better than 1, but 4 or 5 can be spectacular.
4 plant more cities - every extra city is somewhere that is growing and producing stuff, the more effort you spend prodicuing cities the faster you will be able to produce something else
5 Get out of despotism. This should be the main priority of early research.
6 don't build everything everywhere - think about what the city will be producing usually either
- units for high shield cities in which case you need a baracks (and not much else)
- settlers and workers (in which case you might need a granery)
if your commerce is high you might want libraries and or markets, but not everywhere.
7 Learn how to use the Luxury slider to avoid riots, you don't want to use entertainers if you don't have to.
1 Build more roads - helps you move your troups around more, so you need fewer (and non necessarily in every city) helps research (+1 commerce to worked tiles)
2 Build more workers - helps with 1 above also helps with irrigating and mining (you will want to irrigate brown squares and flood plains, and mine the green ones, chopping forrest can help with a one time sheild boost to the nearest city)
3 Grow your cities fast - that means concentrating on food 2 surplus food is much better than 1, but 4 or 5 can be spectacular.
4 plant more cities - every extra city is somewhere that is growing and producing stuff, the more effort you spend prodicuing cities the faster you will be able to produce something else
5 Get out of despotism. This should be the main priority of early research.
6 don't build everything everywhere - think about what the city will be producing usually either
- units for high shield cities in which case you need a baracks (and not much else)
- settlers and workers (in which case you might need a granery)
if your commerce is high you might want libraries and or markets, but not everywhere.
7 Learn how to use the Luxury slider to avoid riots, you don't want to use entertainers if you don't have to.
Welcome to CFC, PlasmaGun!
As has been pointed out, there are many useful articles in the War Academy. In addition to the ones that have been mentioned, I'd direct your attention to
-> Cracker's Opening Plays. It may not all make sense right now, but go ahead and read it. Then plan on re-reading it in the future. It'll make more sense after you've got a few games under your belt.
-> Bamspeedy's Deity Settlers. You may not play at Deity level soon, but this is an excellent article on how to build a "settler factory." A settler factory is just what it sounds like: a city that pumps out settlers, one after the other. This is another one that may not make a lot of sense right now, but go ahead and read it. Learning to create a settler factory can be very powerful.
-> As a companion to Bamspeedy's Deity Settlers, take a look at Spotting Settler Factories. That one will help you determine whether you've got a potential settler factory on your hands.
-> Finally, Warmongering 101 - A Tactical Primer. You'll need to know how to fight a war, and this is a good place to start.
Note that the articles focus on the very early game. The early game can really make or break the rest of the game for you.
Just to reiterate what some of the others have already said, here are some of the common pointers that new players can use:
Good luck and keep us posted.
As has been pointed out, there are many useful articles in the War Academy. In addition to the ones that have been mentioned, I'd direct your attention to
-> Cracker's Opening Plays. It may not all make sense right now, but go ahead and read it. Then plan on re-reading it in the future. It'll make more sense after you've got a few games under your belt.
-> Bamspeedy's Deity Settlers. You may not play at Deity level soon, but this is an excellent article on how to build a "settler factory." A settler factory is just what it sounds like: a city that pumps out settlers, one after the other. This is another one that may not make a lot of sense right now, but go ahead and read it. Learning to create a settler factory can be very powerful.
-> As a companion to Bamspeedy's Deity Settlers, take a look at Spotting Settler Factories. That one will help you determine whether you've got a potential settler factory on your hands.
-> Finally, Warmongering 101 - A Tactical Primer. You'll need to know how to fight a war, and this is a good place to start.
Note that the articles focus on the very early game. The early game can really make or break the rest of the game for you.
Just to reiterate what some of the others have already said, here are some of the common pointers that new players can use:
- Build more roads;
- Build more settlers;
- Build more military;
- Plant more cities;
- Get out of despotism;
- Avoid early Wonders;
- Don't build improvements everywhere;
- Expand;
- Expand;
- Expand.
Good luck and keep us posted.
You've gotten better & more thorough advice from more experienced players, but I wanted to reiterate city placement.
I'm working on defeating Chieftan now, and very close to it (one AI is right on my tail but I'm still winning!). Anyway, the main difference in this winning game versus the last 20 I lost is my city placement. I put my cities much closer together than I am typically comfortable with, and I have been astonished at how much easier it has gone.
The next thing I have to do is research the Warmongering, because war is where I lose it completely, even against civs that have a smaller military & are less advanced.
Good luck!
I'm working on defeating Chieftan now, and very close to it (one AI is right on my tail but I'm still winning!). Anyway, the main difference in this winning game versus the last 20 I lost is my city placement. I put my cities much closer together than I am typically comfortable with, and I have been astonished at how much easier it has gone.
The next thing I have to do is research the Warmongering, because war is where I lose it completely, even against civs that have a smaller military & are less advanced.
Good luck!
civverguy
Emperor
Don't worry, I had trouble on cheiftain too. Could you post us a save of one of your games so we can take a look at it?
Taras Bulba
gone
- Joined
- Jan 31, 2007
- Messages
- 1,442
First off, welcome to the Civilizatoin Forums!
Secondly, i have a question, what version of Civ III do you have: Vanilla-plain, Play the World, Conquests, Complete?
If you have versions w/ the gameplay mode "Mass Regicide" that can help alot w/ early advance on the Tech Tree **tell you why at the bottom**
well.... i don't mean to confuse him, but i have just about mastered cheiftain, seeing as i have played on that level many-a-times, and my methods get easy victory on cheifton only... sadly they do not work so well on warlord up
but, you have to start somewhere.
IF you have Mass Regicide:
First-if you have mass regicide, turn it on **mass regicide just gives you 7 king units, with 2 movement each**
Second-Use those King Units to explore terrain and land on Goody Huts **passive barbarian tribes that look kinda like mushrooms** to pop technology, gain settlers, or earn quick cash----this will get you to be the richest/largest/most advanced fairly quickly **the AI won't use those unit to explore**
Third-DO NOT let those king units fight anything! if they all die, you lose so retreat if in war!
****ONLY RESEARCH THE CHEAPEST TECHS IF YOU WANT TO POP THE OTHERS!!!****
IF you don't have Mass Regicide:
First-I would choose an Expantionistic or Militaristic Civ **I would suggest Russia**
Second-use your scout, if you chose Expantionist, to pop the Goody Huts told of above
Third-use early cheap military units to explore (i.e.-Warriors) if you chose militaristic to pop those huts
Inside your capital, build settlers!!! don't stop unless you waste turns on them. That means if your settler will be done before the city has a population of 3, build another unit, a cheap one (i.e.-warrior/spearman)
Build those cities approximately 5-6 turns away from your capital, either on a coastal tile, river tile, or tile w/ good resources (i.e.-cattle, wheat, iron, horses, gems, ivory... etc...)
Build settlers in those new cities **the same thing if it takes less turns to build the settler than get to a population of 3**
**Defending cities on cheiftain is not really necessary at this time, UNLESS you fight a war!**
Try to box out other civilizations, and get resources close to they by building cities on them.
Don't go for all the Wonders, or you might grow addictions to them like i do, and it will be hard to move on the the next level (i.e.-Warlord, Regent) but go for useful wonders in the victory you want (i.e.-cultural victory-Temple of Artemis helps alot. Domination-Pyramids help w/ early expantion Diplo-Great Lighthouse helps w/ early contact/bribery, and of course United Nations)
although i don't like going into anarchy and switching governments early on in the game, i would 100% encourage it, because it is very useful!
and don't feel bad.... i had to play about 15 games before i even got out of the Ancient Age
PS-If you didn't understand what i just said, forget it, because im not very good w/ puting my ideas down into words
Secondly, i have a question, what version of Civ III do you have: Vanilla-plain, Play the World, Conquests, Complete?
If you have versions w/ the gameplay mode "Mass Regicide" that can help alot w/ early advance on the Tech Tree **tell you why at the bottom**
well.... i don't mean to confuse him, but i have just about mastered cheiftain, seeing as i have played on that level many-a-times, and my methods get easy victory on cheifton only... sadly they do not work so well on warlord up
but, you have to start somewhere.
IF you have Mass Regicide:
First-if you have mass regicide, turn it on **mass regicide just gives you 7 king units, with 2 movement each**
Second-Use those King Units to explore terrain and land on Goody Huts **passive barbarian tribes that look kinda like mushrooms** to pop technology, gain settlers, or earn quick cash----this will get you to be the richest/largest/most advanced fairly quickly **the AI won't use those unit to explore**
Third-DO NOT let those king units fight anything! if they all die, you lose so retreat if in war!
****ONLY RESEARCH THE CHEAPEST TECHS IF YOU WANT TO POP THE OTHERS!!!****
IF you don't have Mass Regicide:
First-I would choose an Expantionistic or Militaristic Civ **I would suggest Russia**
Second-use your scout, if you chose Expantionist, to pop the Goody Huts told of above
Third-use early cheap military units to explore (i.e.-Warriors) if you chose militaristic to pop those huts
Inside your capital, build settlers!!! don't stop unless you waste turns on them. That means if your settler will be done before the city has a population of 3, build another unit, a cheap one (i.e.-warrior/spearman)
Build those cities approximately 5-6 turns away from your capital, either on a coastal tile, river tile, or tile w/ good resources (i.e.-cattle, wheat, iron, horses, gems, ivory... etc...)
Build settlers in those new cities **the same thing if it takes less turns to build the settler than get to a population of 3**
**Defending cities on cheiftain is not really necessary at this time, UNLESS you fight a war!**
Try to box out other civilizations, and get resources close to they by building cities on them.
Don't go for all the Wonders, or you might grow addictions to them like i do, and it will be hard to move on the the next level (i.e.-Warlord, Regent) but go for useful wonders in the victory you want (i.e.-cultural victory-Temple of Artemis helps alot. Domination-Pyramids help w/ early expantion Diplo-Great Lighthouse helps w/ early contact/bribery, and of course United Nations)
although i don't like going into anarchy and switching governments early on in the game, i would 100% encourage it, because it is very useful!
and don't feel bad.... i had to play about 15 games before i even got out of the Ancient Age
PS-If you didn't understand what i just said, forget it, because im not very good w/ puting my ideas down into words
Roma
Chieftain
I think I know your problem with the tech.... are you playing with the sceince slider?
Son_Of_Dido
Prince
- Joined
- May 31, 2005
- Messages
- 315
It actually took me a long time to get the hang of how to start a game (as in what one's opening moves should be). And to readjust to how Civ 3 worked, as opposed to Civ 2. And yes, even Chieftan was hard for me at this stage.
But once I got the hang of that, mostly how to expand, and how to research horizontally, I turned the corner. You'll do it, too. And you'll be crushing Chieftan AI easily.
But once I got the hang of that, mostly how to expand, and how to research horizontally, I turned the corner. You'll do it, too. And you'll be crushing Chieftan AI easily.
Tasslehoff
Kender
Personally, I never had trouble with Chieftan, so I think the only reason you could be having so much trouble is just missing some things. First of all, on Chieftan, it's often easy to set the science slider extremely high, the entire game. For my first few games, the rule was: put science as high as possible without losing cash. If you build plenty of cities, you should quickly and efficiently get WAY ahead of AI in research. Once you are, it's simple to build very advanced units and destroy them.
Rising Star
Warlord
@ Tasslehoff; Putting the slider as high as possible actually works on Chieftain, although it will kill you on the higher levels.
@ SoD; I hear you about adjusting from Civ II to Civ III. I used to play two using the Europe map as England all the time, and play an isolationist game to win the space race. I tried that a couple of times on Civ III and got murdered. It's a completely different game.
@ TB; In Chieftain, I'd suggest a commercial and expansionist civ, or industrious and expansionist, rather than Russia or a militaristic civ. That means England or America. America's also fantastic at higher levels, as it's early growth is higher than any other nation. Bear in mind I play Gold, I know C3C's agricultural trait would be superior to America's two on it's own.
@ SoD; I hear you about adjusting from Civ II to Civ III. I used to play two using the Europe map as England all the time, and play an isolationist game to win the space race. I tried that a couple of times on Civ III and got murdered. It's a completely different game.
@ TB; In Chieftain, I'd suggest a commercial and expansionist civ, or industrious and expansionist, rather than Russia or a militaristic civ. That means England or America. America's also fantastic at higher levels, as it's early growth is higher than any other nation. Bear in mind I play Gold, I know C3C's agricultural trait would be superior to America's two on it's own.
I wouldn't suggest following the same pattern for every single game. If you start to only play certain civs, always build cities 5-6 tiles (which is way too far) away, always build the same wonders, etc., you won't get better. There is no set plan that you can follow every game. There's no set build queue for every city. It varies, and so must your playing style. Anyway...
If you can, please upload your latest save game so we can take a look at it and give specific comments.
If you can, please upload your latest save game so we can take a look at it and give specific comments.
ecuwins
Emperor
- Joined
- Aug 21, 2006
- Messages
- 1,315
Some tips for your next game:
Woah those cities are faarrr apart. You should build them closer together. You need more tile improvement as well -- build more workers and use them. You have an Iron resource that is not connected -- build a road to it and start making swordsman.
You will get the hang of it eventually. I was there not too long ago.
Woah those cities are faarrr apart. You should build them closer together. You need more tile improvement as well -- build more workers and use them. You have an Iron resource that is not connected -- build a road to it and start making swordsman.
You will get the hang of it eventually. I was there not too long ago.
Tasslehoff
Kender
@Rising Start: I know high science kills you on higher levels; I'm getting thrashed by it right now on Regent... That's why I suggested to do it on Chieftain.
@Yui: I think Warlord is fairly easy after Chieftan, but Regent has been quite difficult for me.
@Yui: I think Warlord is fairly easy after Chieftan, but Regent has been quite difficult for me.
