Need some new Naval units

[Bergerperson]

You know this has been bugging me ever since I started playing Civilization 5. Civilization V has gone to great lengths to have it’s land units modernized from their World War 2 counterparts (AA gun —> Mobile SAM, Artillery —> Rocket Artillery, Infantry —> Mechanized Infantry). However, they lack this with the navy. I’m one of those people who believe if a map has water, full naval control is necessary. From the upgraded modern land units, what does the navy have? A carrier that looks like it was made in the mid 1930’s (Thankfully the Queen Elizabeth and Porte Avions 2 takes care of these), we have a battleship that’s been in service from the 1940’s to the 1980’s (So no longer used by ANY country (That includes ALL battleships), then we have Destroyers that looks like they’ve made in the mid 1940’s during the War in the Atlantic. The only actual modern Naval unit out there is the missile cruiser, that’s basically an updated destroyer but not an updated desrtoyer. So I’m asking any unit creators if they’ll think about making an actual modern day destroyer, since the battleship at least looks modern(ish), (compared to the default desrtoyer's 2 coal-burning-looking pillars).

Since I’m Canadian, Ill look to my own country for this. Canada operates 2 major ship classes; a Frigate and Destroyer class. one is the Halifax-Class Frigate like the HMCS Regina

Canada also operates the Iroquois-Class Destroyer (FUN FACT: The un-official Flagship of the Royal Canadian Navy is the HMCS Iroquois, head ship of the class)

If there’s any unit creator that feels the same way about this, I’ll be (And everyone else who has this problem) would be much grateful if they could create Civilization 5 unit model to replace the worn out World War 2 ships with some more modern naval cruisers.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Gucumatz]

More naval units are being added in the expansion.

 

[nitevision]

I wish they would replace the U-Boat with something like a modern attack sub. It looks out of place.

 

[Bergerperson]

More naval units are being added in the expansion.

I’m not going to be playing the expansion. The reason I left Civilization IV is mainly because of espionage, spies are annoying, religion is seriously un-important to the game, does’t matter if you’re Jewish, Arab, Catholic, Confucius, or a follower of Zeus, you’ll still end up going to war at one point during the course of the game (Unless you’re a permanent ally to a civilization) I like the current set up of the game as it stands.

 

[gunter]

Civ V lacks at least 8-9 new naval units.

Is there a mod to add few of them and let the AI use them properly ?

Thx

 

[Camikaze]

Moderator Action: Moved to Ideas & Suggestions. (If I understand this correctly)

 

[Louis XXIV]

I’m not going to be playing the expansion. The reason I left Civilization IV is mainly because of espionage, spies are annoying, religion is seriously un-important to the game, does’t matter if you’re Jewish, Arab, Catholic, Confucius, or a follower of Zeus, you’ll still end up going to war at one point during the course of the game (Unless you’re a permanent ally to a civilization) I like the current set up of the game as it stands.

Well, if you're not buying the expansion, I'm not sure what you expect. They're not adding them via patch.

Anyway, I personally think the modern navy is fairly good. They have four or five different types of units. You have Carriers, Subs, Battleships, Destroyers. I'm not sure about Cruisers (which is the only thing that was in the past they haven't added but could).

I think earlier time periods are more pressing. Ass a medieval cog and galleass. The Age of Sail could have Frigate, Sloop, Galleon, etc. I know they're adding a Privateer which is a start, but I could definitely see more diversity. The classical era is far more difficult to divide units unless you divide between the generic (Galley) and specific (Trireme) which is relatively unsatisfying.

I should point out that this has a very European bias. I could also see the Chinese Junk as a unit.

 

[Bergerperson]

Well, if you're not buying the expansion, I'm not sure what you expect. They're not adding them via patch.

I’ve been doing some thinking after the post, and I hope that in the menu, like Civilization IV, there will be a “disable espionage” button. I still don’t like some of the new stuff they’re adding. Melee ships, that’s exactly what a galley was, it had a hammer at the front, the Romans had the battering galley thing that used bronze for ramming. I can still see no modern melee naval units, and I can see that there’s never going to be another war in history that has the naval clashes World War 2 had. It’s almost like the cost of making 1 modern day vessel is the equivalent of maybe 10 World War 2 vessels, they’re just too valuable to be put in the ship-on-ship scenario that was there in the 1940’s. All the modern day ships are fulfilling is the strategic land targeting and troop protection. For one thing in the Falklands the Royal Navy didn’t do much of a major role but protect the 2 carriers.

 

[Bechhold]

I think before they add such units they need to revamp Naval gameplay, and possibly even look at the map size, and unit movement even at allowing promotions and upgrades to be performed in friendly waters(city states).

Cause what would be the point of a longer list of units when they will be obsolete in say 25_50 turns and take 15 turns to get where you want them.

 

[Bergerperson]

Cause what would be the point of a longer list of units when they will be obsolete in say 25_50 turns and take 15 turns to get where you want them.

They don’t become obsolete after going across the ocean, Naval units ca be used to raise a city’s health down to 1 before land forces arrives and you get a multi turn siege.

 

[Bechhold]

They don’t become obsolete after going across the ocean, Naval units ca be used to raise a city’s health down to 1 before land forces arrives and you get a multi turn siege.

Bu they lose their advantage if you are at war with a civ that has high beakers and the city you want to bombard has a decent production output.

 

[Bergerperson]

High beakers? What does a scientific container have to do with city defence?

 

[Bechhold]

I think you misunderstood my message, let's say you are playing on an Earth Map on Huge size. Your on the East side of South America and you ar at war with another civ in Asia... With buffs, Lighthouse; let's say it takes 13 turns to get a group of ships there, say that civ has high science and a ton of hammers(same as you) in certain cities, you just researched Telegraph... They could easily be researching the same(or be a few turns behind) and be done and be building battleships and so on while your fleet is not even Australia yet. All the while they are researching another military heavy tech.

 

[Strategia]

I think you misunderstood my message, let's say you are playing on an Earth Map on Huge size. Your on the East side of South America and you ar at war with another civ in Asia... With buffs, Lighthouse; let's say it takes 13 turns to get a group of ships there, say that civ has high science and a ton of hammers(same as you) in certain cities, you just researched Telegraph... They could easily be researching the same(or be a few turns behind) and be done and be building battleships and so on while your fleet is not even Australia yet. All the while they are researching another military heavy tech.

You have the same situation on land, unless your borders are pushing against theirs. Ships start out being twice as fast as infantry (Trireme), and end up being roughly twice as fast as tanks (Destroyer), possibly more depending on civ/policy/wonder (my England/Commerce/Great Lighthouse Triremes had a speed of 8, and my Destroyers move 13 per turn). They get to where they're needed much more quickly (barring land barriers) than any other unit. If you're attacking an enemy that far away, sure, by the time your dreadnoughts get there the enemy could be fielding AEGIS cruisers; but if you're attacking an enemy that far away over land, by the time your pikemen get there, the enemy will be fielding tanks.

 

[killmontieasap]

I can still see no modern melee naval units, and I can see that there’s never going to be another war in history that has the naval clashes World War 2 had.

Then again, the same case could be made for post-gunpowder land units. None of them are truly melee anymore, but they are not as "long-ranged" as say, rocket artillery. While I too would love to see additional detail / reality to some aspects of the game, such considerations would / should be made upon determining gameplay balance. It is, after all, a game and not a simulator.

One could make the same case for the air combat / vehicles in the game as being over simplified, although I suppose the history of naval warfare would warrant more attention over all the eras in the game.