Chandrasekhar
Determined
Kael said:
Heh, can't argue with that. Still, there's already quite a bit of cake here, and a few more sprinkles couldn't hurt.
Neutral Heroes
- Thread starter Endovior
- Start date
Heh, can't argue with that. Still, there's already quite a bit of cake here, and a few more sprinkles couldn't hurt.
QES
Court Jester
I want my cake and to eat it too.
-Qes
-Qes
Gamestation
Introducing Servo
- Joined
- May 24, 2006
- Messages
- 551
Sureshot said:
Ability is a bit too powerful for a national unit that can come in the very beginning. Even though the unit can't upgrade, the fact is it would not need to be upgraded because a player could use this unit to bolster a super stack of doom. Plus it can be rebuilt unless you mean that the first warrior that the civ starts with will be a Champion. Then it might work. Otherwise it would be seen as "Wow 30(?) hammers and I can conquer just about any city I come across with my SOD? What a deal!"
Why are people not commenting on my idea? Now I feel ignored.
Chandrasekhar
Determined
Now you know what I feel like...
Nikis-Knight
Deity
Haven't played King's field. The sword is just an exponential growth rate, I guess? But a hero who will resurect in a certain city no matter who owns it is interesting, especially if it is marked graphically or otherwise with a pop-up of some sort. Would also make sense on some type of powerful golem. Is the prince human or dragon or something else?Gamestation said:
Sureshot
Goddess
- Joined
- Feb 2, 2006
- Messages
- 3,771
i didnt even say a % lol.. it could be like 5%.. so i think youre paranoidGamestation said:Ability is a bit too powerful for a national unit that can come in the very beginning. Even though the unit can't upgrade, the fact is it would not need to be upgraded because a player could use this unit to bolster a super stack of doom. Plus it can be rebuilt unless you mean that the first warrior that the civ starts with will be a Champion. Then it might work. Otherwise it would be seen as "Wow 30(?) hammers and I can conquer just about any city I come across with my SOD? What a deal!"
Why are people not commenting on my idea? Now I feel ignored.
Gamestation
Introducing Servo
- Joined
- May 24, 2006
- Messages
- 551
Cool someone responded! The sword should make the prince get really strong really quickly when it grows since that's how I generally feel the game had it. In the game you start out with this tiny, weak, little sword that is so pathetic that you might sell it just to buy some better equipment (my brother actually did sell it for better stuff in the beginning and we wondered why it was worth so much). Turns out that when you finally level it up, it gets stronger than just about any weapon you can buy! Then it goes up to its third level and you can give up every other weapon you have at that point until you have to give it to some guy who has to downgrade the thing back to a little sword again so that he could make a key for you.
Anyway I thought it should cap at some point also because it would be ridiculous if the sword just kept growing to the point that the prince is stronger than the mithril golem.
The prince is human, not a dragon but in the world he came from, there is a sentient being that is called the Dragon King Tree. Supposedly the tree is a manifestation of the god that created the realm of land. I'm a little fuzzy on the rest of the details since it is an old game that I have not played for a while.
@Sureshot
Maybe I am a little paranoid but adding an overall boost to an entire stack of units still seems very tempting to me when it is such a cheap unit.
Anyway I thought it should cap at some point also because it would be ridiculous if the sword just kept growing to the point that the prince is stronger than the mithril golem.
The prince is human, not a dragon but in the world he came from, there is a sentient being that is called the Dragon King Tree. Supposedly the tree is a manifestation of the god that created the realm of land. I'm a little fuzzy on the rest of the details since it is an old game that I have not played for a while.
@Sureshot
Maybe I am a little paranoid but adding an overall boost to an entire stack of units still seems very tempting to me when it is such a cheap unit.
Unser Giftzwerg
UgLe Game Promoter
Droolvira
In life she was a spoiled princess who grew up to be left jilted at the wedding altar by the playboy prince she was arranged to marry. Instead of uniting the two kingdoms war broke out. The princess' fury drove her knights to commit outrage upon further outrage against her neighbor. And in doing so thus spelled her doom. The atrocities committed in her name drew allies to the prince's side. The princess was defeated. Her realm dissapeared from the nations of man. As for the princess herself, she was tried and executed. Her head was severed, her body burned, her kharma shattered with powerful psychic majics, all what remained scattered to the Five Winds.
But even so her hatred remains as burning swirling whisps of rage blowing through the spirit world. Those to know her dark secrets can build the special summoning chamber to bring her forth from the ether. She will always accept the bargain. She will do the will of those who summoned her again to world of Man, just so long as she is allowed to extract her vengance. Against whom, it no longer matters.
Droolvira appears as a gorgeous princess dressed out in wedding finery ... unitl she strikes her victims. Her minions see her in her true form, a hideous headless, naked crone, her wrinkled flesh patched with shiney burn scars, fragments of burned cloth, crutsed with dried pus and wound effluvia.
Abilities (Concepts only, nuts and bolts TBD)
Command abiliy
Stealth ability per the Shadow unit
Spirit magic
Body magic
Immortality? (desireable? debateable, submitted for feedback)
or Fear? (desireable? debateable, submitted for feedback)
Droolvira's defining characteristic is the ability to attack a hostile unit, defeat it, convert it into an ally, and imbue it with the Burning Blood and (I forget the name) Spirt II spell that grants 25% of a dying unit's experience to allies in the same tile.
When fighting on the front lines Droolvira captures thralls. Inorporate them into your own army, or enrage them and fling them at powerful foes, and use their deaths to train your troops.
But for more fun send her behind enemy lines after she's learned the Commando promotions. Suddenly Maceen units left guarding resource nodes switch sides and start ransaking the very things they're supposed to be guarding.
(The quantity of Droolvira's thralls could be limited along the lines of the Baron's limitations on werewolves.)
I had to give the create-a-hero deal a try.
FWIW.
In life she was a spoiled princess who grew up to be left jilted at the wedding altar by the playboy prince she was arranged to marry. Instead of uniting the two kingdoms war broke out. The princess' fury drove her knights to commit outrage upon further outrage against her neighbor. And in doing so thus spelled her doom. The atrocities committed in her name drew allies to the prince's side. The princess was defeated. Her realm dissapeared from the nations of man. As for the princess herself, she was tried and executed. Her head was severed, her body burned, her kharma shattered with powerful psychic majics, all what remained scattered to the Five Winds.
But even so her hatred remains as burning swirling whisps of rage blowing through the spirit world. Those to know her dark secrets can build the special summoning chamber to bring her forth from the ether. She will always accept the bargain. She will do the will of those who summoned her again to world of Man, just so long as she is allowed to extract her vengance. Against whom, it no longer matters.
Droolvira appears as a gorgeous princess dressed out in wedding finery ... unitl she strikes her victims. Her minions see her in her true form, a hideous headless, naked crone, her wrinkled flesh patched with shiney burn scars, fragments of burned cloth, crutsed with dried pus and wound effluvia.
Abilities (Concepts only, nuts and bolts TBD)
Command abiliy
Stealth ability per the Shadow unit
Spirit magic
Body magic
Immortality? (desireable? debateable, submitted for feedback)
or Fear? (desireable? debateable, submitted for feedback)
Droolvira's defining characteristic is the ability to attack a hostile unit, defeat it, convert it into an ally, and imbue it with the Burning Blood and (I forget the name) Spirt II spell that grants 25% of a dying unit's experience to allies in the same tile.
When fighting on the front lines Droolvira captures thralls. Inorporate them into your own army, or enrage them and fling them at powerful foes, and use their deaths to train your troops.
But for more fun send her behind enemy lines after she's learned the Commando promotions. Suddenly Maceen units left guarding resource nodes switch sides and start ransaking the very things they're supposed to be guarding.
(The quantity of Droolvira's thralls could be limited along the lines of the Baron's limitations on werewolves.)
I had to give the create-a-hero deal a try.
FWIW.
Chandrasekhar
Determined
How about this, to add to it (and this could be used for other heroes, too). If she dies, then any Civ can rebuild her, complete with all xp, levels, and promotions. Might be rather interesting.
Gamestation
Introducing Servo
- Joined
- May 24, 2006
- Messages
- 551
Heh you could play "kill the carrier" with her then in multiplayer.
Droolvira has been built by Chandrasekhar
Ahh! Dogpile Chandrasekhar!
Everyone declares war on Chandrasekhar
Droolvira has been built by Unser Giftzwerg
Now Unser!?!
Everyone declares war on Unser Giftzwerg
Droolvira has been built by Sureshot
Must not let the women conspire against us!
Everyone declares war on Sureshot
etc etc
Droolvira has been built by Chandrasekhar
Ahh! Dogpile Chandrasekhar!
Everyone declares war on Chandrasekhar
Droolvira has been built by Unser Giftzwerg
Now Unser!?!
Everyone declares war on Unser Giftzwerg
Droolvira has been built by Sureshot
Must not let the women conspire against us!
Everyone declares war on Sureshot
etc etc
Chandrasekhar
Determined
I'm worried that it might just keep on getting rebuilt by the person with the highest production city, but if it was blocked to the person who built it last, maybe it would work out.
Thought up something else interesting...
Armor of Hell (World Unit, Melee)
Requires Malevolent Designs
An oversized suit of black and red armor, the Armor of Hell is insiduous and evil. Anyone wearing it gains great strength... but is horribly tormented, and will eventually die.
By itself, the Armor of Hell does nothing. It is immobile, and (if unguarded) may be captured by any unit that attacks it. However, any unit in the same space as the Armor of Hell may don it (as an ability). The exception is units of the Order, who will carry it instead, gaining no bonuses or penalties.
On donning (or, for that matter, removing) the Armor of Hell...
There is a 10% chance that the attempt fails, and the unit attempting to don (or remove) it is destroyed.
There is a 40% chance that the attempt fails, and the unit attempting to don (or remove) it has it's health reduced by half (or is destroyed, if below half health).
There is a 40% chance that the attempt succeeds, and the unit donning (or removing) it has it's health reduced by half (or is destroyed, if below half health).
There is a 10% chance that the attempt succeeds without incident.
A unit wearing the Armor of Hell...
Becomes a Melee unit for as long as it wears the Armor of Hell
Gains +2 Strength
Gains +50% Strength
Gains +1 Move
Gains Blitz
Every turn, there is a 10% chance of something bad happening to the unit wearing the Armor of Hell.
If this occurs, it is selected from the following list.
-Unit has it's health reduced by half (or is destroyed, if below half health).
-Unit gains the Demon promotion (if the unit is already a Demon, it is sent to Hell, leaving the suit empty)
-Unit gains the Crazed promotion (if already Crazed, it becomes a Barbarian unit... taking the Armor of Hell with it)
-Unit gains the Diseased promotion (if already Diseased, all units within a 1 tile radius are affected as per Contagion)
-Unit gains the Withered promotion (if already withered, it permanently loses 1 Strength)
-Unit is affected as per Burning Blood.
If the unit ever attempts to attack any unit owned by the Infernals, or any unit that follows the Ashen Veil religion, there is a 10% chance that it joins them, instead. If the unit dies in combat, the Armor of Hell is automatically claimed by the victors.
If the Armor of Hell is ever in the same city as the Code of Junil, controlled by a leader that has the Order as his state religion, he may destroy it, immediately gaining the services of a Paladin and 3 Crusaders.
Armor of Hell (World Unit, Melee)
Requires Malevolent Designs
An oversized suit of black and red armor, the Armor of Hell is insiduous and evil. Anyone wearing it gains great strength... but is horribly tormented, and will eventually die.
By itself, the Armor of Hell does nothing. It is immobile, and (if unguarded) may be captured by any unit that attacks it. However, any unit in the same space as the Armor of Hell may don it (as an ability). The exception is units of the Order, who will carry it instead, gaining no bonuses or penalties.
On donning (or, for that matter, removing) the Armor of Hell...
There is a 10% chance that the attempt fails, and the unit attempting to don (or remove) it is destroyed.
There is a 40% chance that the attempt fails, and the unit attempting to don (or remove) it has it's health reduced by half (or is destroyed, if below half health).
There is a 40% chance that the attempt succeeds, and the unit donning (or removing) it has it's health reduced by half (or is destroyed, if below half health).
There is a 10% chance that the attempt succeeds without incident.
A unit wearing the Armor of Hell...
Becomes a Melee unit for as long as it wears the Armor of Hell
Gains +2 Strength
Gains +50% Strength
Gains +1 Move
Gains Blitz
Every turn, there is a 10% chance of something bad happening to the unit wearing the Armor of Hell.
If this occurs, it is selected from the following list.
-Unit has it's health reduced by half (or is destroyed, if below half health).
-Unit gains the Demon promotion (if the unit is already a Demon, it is sent to Hell, leaving the suit empty)
-Unit gains the Crazed promotion (if already Crazed, it becomes a Barbarian unit... taking the Armor of Hell with it)
-Unit gains the Diseased promotion (if already Diseased, all units within a 1 tile radius are affected as per Contagion)
-Unit gains the Withered promotion (if already withered, it permanently loses 1 Strength)
-Unit is affected as per Burning Blood.
If the unit ever attempts to attack any unit owned by the Infernals, or any unit that follows the Ashen Veil religion, there is a 10% chance that it joins them, instead. If the unit dies in combat, the Armor of Hell is automatically claimed by the victors.
If the Armor of Hell is ever in the same city as the Code of Junil, controlled by a leader that has the Order as his state religion, he may destroy it, immediately gaining the services of a Paladin and 3 Crusaders.
Gamestation
Introducing Servo
- Joined
- May 24, 2006
- Messages
- 551
Sounds cool, a bit unpredictable but still cool. Although it does not sound too much like a neutral hero even if technically anyone can build it without a religion. Sounds too much like it should be an Ashen Veil world unit with "Hell" being in the name and then there is the relation it would actually have with the Order and the Ashen Veil.
Unser Giftzwerg
UgLe Game Promoter
Chandrasekhar said:
I'll add my thumbs-up to Gamestation's on this idea. Droolvira ... the unstoppable, rebuildable, hate machine. That's got a certain appeal, but my bias is showing.
Unser Giftzwerg
UgLe Game Promoter
Droowel
The greatest Bard of the Age began life in most unpresuming circumstances, a remote Illian hamlet. The young girl Droowel learned about music at her father's knee. She learned about life's unforgiving nature from the harsh environment and illian culture. As a little girl she watched three older brothers challenge for local chieften status ... and watched three brothers die in single challenge combat. But she also saw these brothers lauded at their funerals as brave men who lived life to the fullest, and lauded so even by the very chieftan by whose hand the brothers fell.
And as young woman, Droowel watched a fourth brother stride forth and issue challenge. And she watched as this time, her sibling emerged triumphant. At the funeral for the fallen chieftan, Droowel's brother's words failed him. Suddenly, Droowel was inspired to sing. She sang the history of the fallen chieftan's life, his bravery in combat, his honor in victory. The fallen man was but a simple chieftan of an unremarkable hamlet. But when Droowel finished singing, those present felt they were sending a legendary king to the afterlife.
Droowel's fame spread rapidly after that. The small hamlet could not contain her, not could all of Illian society. In what seemed like a blink of an eye, Droowel found herself travelling the world, often finding her melodies had outraced her to the next town. Everyone, it seemed, loved her driving martial rythyms. Everyone, it seemed, could and did recite her lyrics. Everywhere she sang, people would still be talking about the performance months afterwards.
Her songs reflected her upbringing and her Illian values. Life is violent and short. Audacidy and bravery are valued more than life itself. Conflicts are not to be avoided, no, they are to be sought out confronted directly and resolved with violence. There is glory in victory, glory in defeat; shame exists only in declining confrontation. Her songs reflected Illlian values, but the message had universal appeal. When married to her singular voice and unique melodies, her music was irresistable.
Such a talent does not long escape the notice of kings. Before long, many emperors found themselves in competition to woo Droowel to their court. Even the dullest emperor saw the immense value to such a bard. Such a bard could steel an entire empire to face the rigors of war. So the emperors competed for Droowel's alliegance. Little did they realize then that decades later the emperors would wish they had competed to see who could strike her dead. A wish that was not limited to only those emperors who had failed to attract Droowel to their court...
Be careful what you wish for, for sometimes wishes come true.
Droowel
Str 6
Move 2
Hero
Sorcery
Channeling II, III
Law II, III (Valor, Unyeilding Obediance)
Mind II, III (Inspiration, Domination)
Spirit II (Hope)
Access to City Defender promotions, at least CD I, maybe CD I, II. (see below)
Training ability for Inspiration and/or Hope? (desireable? debateable? feedback?)
Droowel has a nice set of builder-friendly spells. She can add a happyface, beakers, and culture to a city and she can pacify all the unhappy faces in a city. That's really nice after capturing a massive enemy city. She should have access to at least some of the city defender promotions because citizens love her and will always warn her about suspicious strangers lurking around town asking questions (flavor) and to make her a tough target for assassins while keeping her weak offensively (game balance).
Why can strangers be expected to be lurking around town seeking to learn about Droowel? Because of her defining characteristic:
Every turn Droowel is alive, a "Global Hostility Index" is incremented by 1%. The "GHI" starts at 100%. Every red, i.e. negative, diplomatic relation condition is multiplied by the GHI. No modification is made to green, i.e. positive, diplomatic relations modifiers. Droowel might die, but her music is eternal. If and when Droowel dies, the GHI remains at its final value, but stops growing larger. Thee is no cap to the GHI. So long as she lives, the GHI will grow.
Special ability #2: Droowel cannot be Disbanded. You build her, you're stuck with her.
Example.
Droowel is built on turn 201. The Calabim have the following opinions of the Bannor.
Our open Borders build trust (+1)
You are Good (-6)
You refused to help us (-1)
Our close borders spark tensions (-1)
We are upset you follow a different faith (-3)
The formula is Green - Red*GHI = Final diplomatic status. So we have
1 - 11*100% = -10
Turn 301 One hundred turns pass. Little has occured between Bannor and Calabim so the conditions are almost the same. But Droowel's songs have been inspiring regular peoples worldwide for generations now.
Our open Borders build trust (+2)
You are Good (-6)
You refused to help us (-2)
Our close borders spark tensions (-2)
We are upset you follow a different faith (-4)
So we have 2 - 14*200% = -26
Hmm, doesn't look like Calabim and Bannor will be ignoring each other much longer.
Now picture diplomatic relations crashing everywhere. It will be harder to maintain alliances, to trade, and to avoid wars. And thus emperors might look fondly upon the assassin option.
Special ability #3 (optional): Droowel reduces War Weariness by 25% for the owning civilization, and by 15% for all other civilizations in the game.
Don't know if any of this is programmable, but if you're seeking
you gotta think outta the box.
The greatest Bard of the Age began life in most unpresuming circumstances, a remote Illian hamlet. The young girl Droowel learned about music at her father's knee. She learned about life's unforgiving nature from the harsh environment and illian culture. As a little girl she watched three older brothers challenge for local chieften status ... and watched three brothers die in single challenge combat. But she also saw these brothers lauded at their funerals as brave men who lived life to the fullest, and lauded so even by the very chieftan by whose hand the brothers fell.
And as young woman, Droowel watched a fourth brother stride forth and issue challenge. And she watched as this time, her sibling emerged triumphant. At the funeral for the fallen chieftan, Droowel's brother's words failed him. Suddenly, Droowel was inspired to sing. She sang the history of the fallen chieftan's life, his bravery in combat, his honor in victory. The fallen man was but a simple chieftan of an unremarkable hamlet. But when Droowel finished singing, those present felt they were sending a legendary king to the afterlife.
Droowel's fame spread rapidly after that. The small hamlet could not contain her, not could all of Illian society. In what seemed like a blink of an eye, Droowel found herself travelling the world, often finding her melodies had outraced her to the next town. Everyone, it seemed, loved her driving martial rythyms. Everyone, it seemed, could and did recite her lyrics. Everywhere she sang, people would still be talking about the performance months afterwards.
Her songs reflected her upbringing and her Illian values. Life is violent and short. Audacidy and bravery are valued more than life itself. Conflicts are not to be avoided, no, they are to be sought out confronted directly and resolved with violence. There is glory in victory, glory in defeat; shame exists only in declining confrontation. Her songs reflected Illlian values, but the message had universal appeal. When married to her singular voice and unique melodies, her music was irresistable.
Such a talent does not long escape the notice of kings. Before long, many emperors found themselves in competition to woo Droowel to their court. Even the dullest emperor saw the immense value to such a bard. Such a bard could steel an entire empire to face the rigors of war. So the emperors competed for Droowel's alliegance. Little did they realize then that decades later the emperors would wish they had competed to see who could strike her dead. A wish that was not limited to only those emperors who had failed to attract Droowel to their court...
Be careful what you wish for, for sometimes wishes come true.
Droowel
Str 6
Move 2
Hero
Sorcery
Channeling II, III
Law II, III (Valor, Unyeilding Obediance)
Mind II, III (Inspiration, Domination)
Spirit II (Hope)
Access to City Defender promotions, at least CD I, maybe CD I, II. (see below)
Training ability for Inspiration and/or Hope? (desireable? debateable? feedback?)
Droowel has a nice set of builder-friendly spells. She can add a happyface, beakers, and culture to a city and she can pacify all the unhappy faces in a city. That's really nice after capturing a massive enemy city. She should have access to at least some of the city defender promotions because citizens love her and will always warn her about suspicious strangers lurking around town asking questions (flavor) and to make her a tough target for assassins while keeping her weak offensively (game balance).
Why can strangers be expected to be lurking around town seeking to learn about Droowel? Because of her defining characteristic:
Every turn Droowel is alive, a "Global Hostility Index" is incremented by 1%. The "GHI" starts at 100%. Every red, i.e. negative, diplomatic relation condition is multiplied by the GHI. No modification is made to green, i.e. positive, diplomatic relations modifiers. Droowel might die, but her music is eternal. If and when Droowel dies, the GHI remains at its final value, but stops growing larger. Thee is no cap to the GHI. So long as she lives, the GHI will grow.
Special ability #2: Droowel cannot be Disbanded. You build her, you're stuck with her.
Example.
Droowel is built on turn 201. The Calabim have the following opinions of the Bannor.
Our open Borders build trust (+1)
You are Good (-6)
You refused to help us (-1)
Our close borders spark tensions (-1)
We are upset you follow a different faith (-3)
The formula is Green - Red*GHI = Final diplomatic status. So we have
1 - 11*100% = -10
Turn 301 One hundred turns pass. Little has occured between Bannor and Calabim so the conditions are almost the same. But Droowel's songs have been inspiring regular peoples worldwide for generations now.
Our open Borders build trust (+2)
You are Good (-6)
You refused to help us (-2)
Our close borders spark tensions (-2)
We are upset you follow a different faith (-4)
So we have 2 - 14*200% = -26
Hmm, doesn't look like Calabim and Bannor will be ignoring each other much longer.
Now picture diplomatic relations crashing everywhere. It will be harder to maintain alliances, to trade, and to avoid wars. And thus emperors might look fondly upon the assassin option.
Special ability #3 (optional): Droowel reduces War Weariness by 25% for the owning civilization, and by 15% for all other civilizations in the game.
Don't know if any of this is programmable, but if you're seeking
you gotta think outta the box.
Gamestation
Introducing Servo
- Joined
- May 24, 2006
- Messages
- 551
No offense towards you Unser but that sounds like a newb trap more than anything. I think people would just build an archmage instead with those spells.
Unser Giftzwerg
UgLe Game Promoter
Gamestation said:
There is a spell that continually excalates diplomatic tensions worldwide?
Droowel's spells are incidental, but handy for certain styles of play. The ability to dominate an enemy unit is no small potatoes. Taken together they seem like a reasonable skills set for a bard-type hero as expressed in FfH terms. Sure, you could build a tier-4 unit to mimic Droowel's skills set, but that can be said for any hero.
But the spells are sort of besides the point. The special abilities are what set neutral heroes a parrt.
If a player wants a super-chaotic game with wars commonplace, than that player will want to build this unit. Build her and pop some corn to watch the wars as they break out. But don't let your fingers get too greasy to operate the mouse ... you'll be involved in plenty of those wars too.
If a player does not want such a game, they can build the unit, start a war, and get the unit killed. Droowel would appreceate having a war started just to arrange her death.
Or, let an AI civ build her, and have fun playing the hidden nationality game trying to kill her before her songs become too popular. There's a twist.
Nikis-Knight
Deity
I like the idea of a Bard hero, but don't understand why one would cause suspicion at a world level? Spreading news of a leaders' misdeeds, I guess?
