Never building scouts

[Orian]

I noticed on this forum that most people start with building a scout as soon as they found their first city. Personally, I never build scouts (not at the beginning, nor later ingame) as I find a waste of time and resources. I use my warrior to find a nice place for a new city, while I start building a more useful thing in my capital. Am I the only one in this? And what is the point of a scout if you can also look around with your warrior (of course a scout is faster, but it takes so long before you have a settler that you probably have found a nice place for the 2nd city by than).

 

[Sabrina]

I don't build scouts either, so I can't help you telling what's the point.

 

[Bagi]

The point is to look for ruins, city-states, wonders and other civs.

A scout will quickly pay itself back with all the gold/culture/techs/happiness it accumulates.

 

[IkM]

You missing a lot my friend, scouts are very useful. especially earht-pangea (or similar) maps. sometimes I build 2 scouts. you can easily find ruins, natural wonders, city-states etc.

 

[Walter R]

I do for the reasons above, but the thing that really bugs me with scouts is that if they were built before optics they can't embark until they've been home. I presume it is because embarkation is seen as a promotion/upgrade, but it seriously hampers scouting usefulness. I've often had to kill off experienced scouts as they were "stuck" and I couldn't afford the upkeep. It's a small wish, but I wish this were different.

 

[Suntechnique]

I do for the reasons above, but the thing that really bugs me with scouts is that if they were built before optics they can't embark until they've been home. I presume it is because embarkation is seen as a promotion/upgrade, but it seriously hampers scouting usefulness. I've often had to kill off experienced scouts as they were "stuck" and I couldn't afford the upkeep. It's a small wish, but I wish this were different.

Lately it was changed. In some patch I suppose. Now once you got optics you can enter any open borders civ or allied state to get embarkation.

 

[ptoss1]

I built three scouts once. The archers were worth it.

 

[Orian]

Hmm, I never really thought about the ruins. Might try it in my next game.

 

[apocalypse105]

On pangea and continents they are usefull you find other city states which give you gold and a lot of faith if you are first which helps you to found a pantheon. You can get a lot of ancient ruins which can help you. You find a lot of other civs which will increase you're tech speed and you will be able to trade for gold. only positif things.

I allways built them if i am on a pangea onr continents map. If i know i am on a island or archipelo map i don't built them and go straight for momument.

On islands its pretty much useless because you need ships to explore

 

[Browd]

Lately it was changed. In some patch I suppose. Now once you got optics you can enter any open borders civ or allied state to get embarkation.

City State just needs to be a friend. No need for allied status to enable embarkation.

 

[caiman0815]

as already said, scouts can be a big gain in the early game. the scout reveals map/ruins/CS in addition to your warrior, not instead, so you can go for two directions. If your scout pops an upgrade ruin, you get a real cheap archer which ignores terrain m. cost. Even if you dont have the luck to find an upgrade, you can use your scout as backup fighting force or commit it in a war if you dont need it anymore. Last, you can snatch CS workers (or even AIs, but much more tricky). So in my opinion its best to build at least one scout

 

[Gucumatz]

Its actually not a bad idea to start with a monument first. If you think your warrior can find enough gold to be able to rush buy a scout, it might make sense too to not build a scout first. When you are playing multiplayer if you have the perfect terrain for a wonder, it might make sense to forego those extra 3-4 turns on building a scout (Quick) to focus on the early set-up for a wonder [So a granary/worker + monument]

On higher levels where the AI can find most ruins first, it can be a tradeoff. On island maps it often makes sense to not build a scout too

It depends on the map, but there are games I also don't build a scout first - as strategically it can make sense

 

[Randall_Flagg]

Well I never play with ruins anymore. But I still always build one scout. The reason is simple, they can move very fast. They find barb camps for me and City States. Getting gold for that 1st setteler is very important for me.


I just have to say, the ruins are just to powerful for the player imho.

 

[Jimjemael]

Plus there's always the off chance that a natural wonder like El Dorado will spawn nearby. If you miss something like that because didn't invest in exploration you'll bed kicking yourself for the rest of the game.

 

[Ryoga]

To sum it up, scouts can be used for:

Find ruins (20 culture, 1 population to your capital, free tech, enough faith for an automatic pantheon, fast archer and so on), it can be very useful at start
Find city states: gold, it's not much but it's never bad to have more at the beginning.
Find natural wonders: happiness, and you can never have enough.
Find all other civs: better to make friends early on far away lands. More civs you know better chances to make profitable deals. It is true however that if you just wait they will end up knocking at your door by themselves, however if you can reach them faster it's better. You can sell open borders to them, and with 10 of them it's a free settler. Of course those 50 gold are mostly profitable on early game, but not so much later, so time is of the essence.
Exploration: The more you wait the hardest and/or more costly will be to know everything about the world. Other civs will expand quickly and will claim lands within their borders. If you want to scan the land for free you need to do it as fast as possible. Remember: knowledge is power.
Barbarian camps: This is pretty relative because you will hardly send your troops on faraway lands, and you can use your starting warrior to scan for nearby camps. It doesn't hurt however to know for nearby camps as fast as possible.

Reasons not to build scouts at the very start:
Archipelago and tiny island maps: An early scout will deplete its usefulness pretty fast. For mapping purposes it's better to build a trireme or two. Even with embarkation your scout will be most likely be killed by barbarian ships. Not worth it. It's better to build a strong unit later on to get to still unexplored ruins while fending off the barbarians that protect them.
Small and crowded maps: Not a standard configuration, but in such cases you have a diminished return on ruins found and you might not need a scout to explore the whole map.
Early conquest plans: It's rarely advantageous but if you happen to be Monty or another civ with strong early units you might decide to skip on exploration to conquer a nearby civ or CS as soon as possible. This might end up being a good trade off. Askia might also benefit more from an early army if a lot of camps are nearby.

 

[bcaiko]

I've certainly chosen not to build scouts in a few games; there are times even on Continents where a Scout won't do much better than a couple of Warriors exploring. But they are cheap and can be very useful. A couple of turns to build a scout when you're surrounded by rough terrain is a no brainer - espeically when you get a free technology ruin for your trouble.

 

[Browd]

Find all other civs: better to make friends early on far away lands. More civs you know better chances to make profitable deals. It is true however that if you just wait they will end up knocking at your door by themselves, however if you can reach them faster it's better. You can sell open borders to them, and with 10 of them it's a free settler. Of course those 50 gold are mostly profitable on early game, but not so much later, so time is of the essence.

Another benefit of meeting AI civs earlier rather than later is that the beaker costs of a particular tech will be reduced slightly the more civs you have met that have already researched that tech.

 

[Karmah]

Another benefit of meeting AI civs earlier rather than later is that the beaker costs of a particular tech will be reduced slightly the more civs you have met that have already researched that tech.

This!!! and it is significant ! it s like 2% per civ something like that...so immortal + it gets 10+% easiliy.

 

[Ryoga]

True, that reminds me of that game where I spawned on an isolated island while everyone else was in the same continent. There wasn't even shallow water to connect me with the rest, I had to wait until the renaissance. It was horrible... they were all so more advanced than me...

 

[Orian]

Hmm, the benefits are indeed nice. Never really thought of it in that way. After finishing this game I'll certainly try one with a scout. But let me first try to out-UN the USA's spaceship .