Never fight a land war in Asia

[wakkoxc]

I was loading a saved game yesterday and under the green bar where it usually tells you keyboard shortcuts and gives little game tips this comes up:

Never fight a land war in Asia

What does that mean aside from the literal translation of never fighting a land war in Asia?

 

[JiggleTheHandle]

It's a quote from "The Princess Bride." Don't take it seriously as far as game strategy.

 

[Gromblmompf]

Its a quote from the very great book and/or movie "The Princess Bride". You should go see/read it NOW, if you havent seen/read it yet.

The full quote goes like this (our hero (although we dont know he is our hero at that time yet, we just kinda suspect it) is involved in a battle of minds with Vizzini, a sizilian criminal mastermind and Vizzini think he won)

"You fell victim to one of the classic blunders. The most famous is: "Never get involved in a land war in Asia." But, only slightly less well known is this: "Never go in against a Sicilian, when death is on the line!"

As for the background of that: can you name someone who ever got successfully involved in a land war in asia? (Besides the asians, of course).

Funny tho. Rise of Nations had "Have fun storming the castle" as a taunt, and that is a quote from The Princess Bride too. Seems as if both Firaxis and BHG appreciate quality.

 

[elderotter]

yes that is all true. It could also hint at having balance in your play tho for instance build armies navies and air farces.

 

[jkp1187]

As for the background of that: can you name someone who ever got successfully involved in a land war in asia? (Besides the asians, of course).

Total fallacy. Without commenting on more current history, the Brits won both Opium Wars, the Sepoy Mutiny, World War I in Turkey (in no small part due to T.E. Lawrence "Lawrence of Arabia",) and the Malay Emergency in the 1950s. French conquered Indochina and ruled it for 100 years. A combination of European powers + Japan and the USA put down the Boxer Rebellion in China at the turn of the (20th) century. And, although Russia is partly European, the Germans did win World War I against them (and only had to give up their winnings because of their collapse in the West.)

 

[arcan]

Total fallacy. Without commenting on more current history, the Brits won both Opium Wars, the Sepoy Mutiny, World War I in Turkey (in no small part due to T.E. Lawrence "Lawrence of Arabia",) and the Malay Emergency in the 1950s. French conquered Indochina and ruled it for 100 years. A combination of European powers + Japan and the USA put down the Boxer Rebellion in China at the turn of the (20th) century. And, although Russia is partly European, the Germans did win World War I against them (and only had to give up their winnings because of their collapse in the West.)

you shouldn't be that affirmative.
The brits didn't exactly won the Opium Wars. First they weren'twars as we usually understand them. They were settled in the "black zone" and not in the field.
In Turkey, (wich isn't exactly Asia), England got more or less kicked out. Russia is not to take into account since the war was in the European part. And concerning Indochina, the french never totally control it (nor the brits in India). There always were armies required. And for indochina, you know the end...

So in fact, I concur : I don't know anybody who won a war in Asia (excepte for asians themselves...)

 

[cobaltgrc]

That quote is pretty much solid gold.

 

[Elhoim]

Because it is not only winning, but also you have to mantain it.

 

[Gromblmompf]

Total fallacy.

Hehe, jkp1187, i think you just got involved in a land war in asia.

 

[zeeter]

I'm not sure where I heard this quote first, but I'm pretty sure it goes back a lot further than The Princess Bride. Maybe I'm wrong, though. Something about Nixon.... I remember hearing that line in Princess Bride and thinking it was clever that they used that old proverb in the movie.

 

[elderotter]

I'm not sure where I heard this quote first, but I'm pretty sure it goes back a lot further than The Princess Bride. Maybe I'm wrong, though. Something about Nixon.... I remember hearing that line in Princess Bride and thinking it was clever that they used that old proverb in the movie.

If you noticed they Quote it in Princess Bride not come up with it. Check the post in this thread that states the line -Vincenzi(or whoever) says something like: you fell into a classic blunder, the first is never get into..etc so V was quoting it not originating it...lol what a thread this is.

 

[jkp1187]

you shouldn't be that affirmative.
The brits didn't exactly won the Opium Wars. First they weren'twars as we usually understand them. They were settled in the "black zone" and not in the field.

Yes, the Brits exactly won the Opium Wars. Ask anyone who lived in Hong Kong before 1997. Ask anyone how the "Unequal Treaties" were imposed on China. And ask the Chinese who were killed in those wars whether they were wars or not.

In Turkey, (wich isn't exactly Asia), England got more or less kicked out.

So now you get to choose what "Asia" is? And your sentence here makes no sense.

Russia is not to take into account since the war was in the European part.

If you can define Turkey out of Asia, I can define Russia in.

And concerning Indochina, the french never totally control it (nor the brits in India). There always were armies required. And for indochina, you know the end...

No one, except perhaps Kim Il Sung "totally controls" any country. The French exercised sovereignty, dominated most of the territory, and especially exercised dominion over Tonkin and Cochin China. Annam was a mixed bag, but let's not quibble here: the French ran the place until the arrival of Japan in 1940. The French probably would have reconquered Indochina but for Mao's victory in the Chinese Civil War.

And you are strangely silent on the Malay Emergency....

 

[Kevinicus]

Yarrr proof:

 

[Turner]

The most famous of the "classic blunders" mentioned by Vizzini - "never get involved in a land war in Asia" - was reputedly advice given by General Douglas MacArthur to President John F. Kennedy, in 1961.

Source. 11th Entry down.

 

[Alphidius]

I think we are getting carried away here....
elderotter said something about mixed armies & since Asia is HUGE, waging a war with a Civ who have just about covered the continent with its' cities is plain suicidal

 

[Totibbs]

Maybe you should also define what "victory" is, but didnt the Americans recently win the warin Afghanistan?
Iraq is still in revolt, but they have something like an american constitution...
What is winning. In Vietnam, the russian won. Maybe the soldiers came partley from the Europe side of the USSR. Then the Europeans won also in Vietnam...
And Israel... that used to be arab for a while, now mostly western-orientated jewish settlers runs the business there.

Also Ive seen the movie the Last Samurai. When Im not wrong the Americans kicked out the japanese emperor and samurai and industrialized that asian country.

The point is "what is succes, what is winning" beside the quesiton "what is asia?".

 

[arcan]

Yes, the Brits exactly won the Opium Wars. Ask anyone who lived in Hong Kong before 1997. Ask anyone how the "Unequal Treaties" were imposed on China. And ask the Chinese who were killed in those wars whether they were wars or not.

I didn't deny the casualties. But let me remind you the first cause of the war were the English temselves allowing (and even pushing) the situation to go that far...

So now you get to choose what "Asia" is? And your sentence here makes no sense.

No I don't choose. Asia is commonly accepted to begin West of the Oural. Turkey is defined as "proche orient" (sorry don't know the exact english name). Not Asia.

If you can define Turkey out of Asia, I can define Russia in.

Cf answer above. Use good definitions.

No one, except perhaps Kim Il Sung "totally controls" any country. The French exercised sovereignty, dominated most of the territory, and especially exercised dominion over Tonkin and Cochin China. Annam was a mixed bag, but let's not quibble here: the French ran the place until the arrival of Japan in 1940. The French probably would have reconquered Indochina but for Mao's victory in the Chinese Civil War.

France would definitely not have conquered the whole of incodhina. Especially with only ground units. They (/we) never even totally controlled Indochina. There were always wars/attacks in the country.

And you are strangely silent on the Malay Emergency....

For that, sorry I oversaw it. But let me remind you that in 1950, airforces were already a part of any army force. That wasn't only land war.

 

[Demaratus]

Germany versus Russia in WWI--Germany owned Russia. Britain in India in the 18th and 19th century--they took it over. Seems to look like it's false.

 

[arcan]

Germany versus Russia in WWI--Germany owned Russia. Britain in India in the 18th and 19th century--they took it over. Seems to look like it's false.

I beg your pardon? Germany never owned Russia!
For Britain and India, yes, Britain owned india. Buttheir were constant fights in the inside parts of india. You couldn't say that the country was peacefull. So can you consider that the Brits really did win? As long as one has to take constant military actions to maintain his presence in a country, I don't consider the war as won.

 

[Anima Croatorum]

Alexander of Macedon did pretty well in Asia.