New Civ 4 patch coming up?

[wgauld]

Civ for the X360/PS3 are you insane, fighting, racing and shooting yes, anything that requires more than 4 buttons to control I think not, top spec PC's struggling with Civ IV what will Civ V require.... Deep Thought.

 

[Soneji]

Yes end games on Civ IV are hard, wait until its Civ 5. It is just a platform that the consol industry will not conquer. And I cannot see consols outperforming PC's...... ever.

 

[Severus]

Civ for the X360/PS3 are you insane, fighting, racing and shooting yes, anything that requires more than 4 buttons to control I think not, top spec PC's struggling with Civ IV what will Civ V require.... Deep Thought.

Why is that insane?
I had civ2 for the playstation and played it for hours at a time.
If i remember correctly it only used the X button as well. Plus playstation controllers have a potential 14 buttons, easily enough to play a game of civ with.
Thats the beauty of civ, you can play is using all the keyboard shortcuts or using only the mouse or with a combination of the two.
There would definitely be a market for civ4 or civ5 on the ps3.

 

[Bongo-Bongo]

Danicela: Firstly, you can never patch a game until its perfect, it will never happen. Patches often introduce new bugs themselves.

And to expect companies to act like Blizzard when it comes to patching is illogical. Like I said previously, patching requires resources, when a game is old, why would any company want to spend time developing new patch for it? Resources are better spent producing new products, trying to get these as bug free as possible (something is getting harder for all companies and competition increases and deadlines are tighter).

The final patch for Civ IV fixed the game, and its rare to hear anybody complain about any game breaking problems. Sure there are always going to people who experience problems, but these are in the vast minority now, and it makes no sense to continue patching vanilla Civ, when especially with Warlords out, the number of people interested will be minimal. It might not be fair to those who still have problems, but with there being few now, it makes no sense to continue to patch the game, attentions should rightly be turned to patching Warlords, and creating future exapansions. Its not betrayal.

 

[player1 fanatic]

While that sounds like a good idea, you realize why Auto companies are going out of business here, they promised something X years in the future.

If a game company promises X months of support..... how do you know their money wont run out in X-6 months.... How many people will they have working on those patches, one "Patch specialist" that does all the companies games, and so spends at most 2 hours a week looking at each patch.

First step would be enforcing fines for companies that don't respect their guarantees.

We are talking about guaranteed support, not promise.

Of course, they could just print on the box "no guaraneed patches", if they think it's better for their business.

 

[player1 fanatic]

Patchs shouldn't have any "months", but you have to patch a game until it's perfect, you can't leave a game with bugs and unbalancements.

You can't have perfection enforced by law.
But at least you could enforce some guarantee for post production game support (aka patches), so consumer would be better informed what he is buying.

 

[wgauld]

Why is that insane?
I had civ2 for the playstation and played it for hours at a time.
If i remember correctly it only used the X button as well. Plus playstation controllers have a potential 14 buttons, easily enough to play a game of civ with.
Thats the beauty of civ, you can play is using all the keyboard shortcuts or using only the mouse or with a combination of the two.
There would definitely be a market for civ4 or civ5 on the ps3.

It was a wee joke about the buttons...

not sure I agree with the market I was always under the impression that people including myself use a PC for strategy games and console for shooting etc

 

[jimbob27]

=> Their task is to make the more perfect game as possible.

I don't know what planet you're from... but that certainly isn't their objective.

It's their task to create a game within a certain time limit, and with a limited budget, which will sell well.... and thats exactly what they did. The game sells well, and people have fun playing it... so when they released the expansion, people go out and buy it as well.

You sound like you think Fireaxis owes you something. They're not a charity. They're not going to work endless hours without pay, past the deadline, just so they can give you your perfect game. Sorry if you don't like reality.

 

[mikehunt]

Not a chance.
XP barely ever crahsed, while blue screen of death is common with 98. Also, as someone who has friends who still use 98, I'm pretty sure it's much inferior to XP. You can't even use USB drive easily with 98.

I'm happy with xp, but win98se is just as stable. I very rarely had blue screens, and have had xp lock up on my and blue screen from time to time
I used 98se up until last september when I built my current desktop

 

[mikehunt]

The expansion is $25, that's not an awful lot of money. It's perfectly fine with me if they only patch Warlords from now on.

why should I pay an extra $25 to get a game I already paid $50 for to work properly?

 

[KrikkitTwo]

... And not buying their games is not a solution, the solution for the team is to act BETTER.

OK, not buying their games IS the solution because YOU have the problem. (once you Don't buy Civ V you can send a letter to firaxis saying that while you are a big Civ fan, you are not buying Civ V because of their lousy patch support... you can even go on this forum and tell other people not to buy Civ V because of Firaxis' Lousy Patch support.)

You can even come on the Forum and say I want better patch support. But to Imply Firaxis MUST give you patch support is wrong. They are not your Mommy who Has to feed you, clothe you and bathe you or she gets in trouble.

If YOU have the problem, YOU need to solve it. In a free country You don't get to say "I have a problem here is how YOU are going to solve it".

Firaxis doesn't see a problem, they think that it is a good idea that they Patch the Warlords instead of the Vanilla, it gives them more time to work on better patches for Warlords, or a new game/expansion, or more time to spend with their families, or to spend doing totally worthless things like watch TV... If they thought that unpatched Vanilla was a problem, they would patch Vanilla.

The fact is no game(edit: no THING) will ever be Perfect, and will especially never be perfect by your individual standards unless you make it yourself.
(because then your standards will include, not too much work went into this, possible for me to do it before I die, etc.)

Because they do bugged, incomplete, unbalanced games.
=> Their task is to make the more perfect game as possible.

You are not their boss, you don't get to tell them what their task is. If they, or anyone else, wants to make a game that is bugged, incomplete, and unbalanced it is their right...

Now if they say that it is not bugged , incomplete, and unbalanced, that is something else... but "incomplete" and "unbalanced" are somewhat opinions... and they acknowledge there may be some bugs they will never solve.

In their opinion, it is 'complete enough'/'balanced enough'/'bug free enough' at least for a 50$ game... if you want it More Complete, more balanced, and more bug free, buy the 80$ game.

 

[Danicela]

Yes end games on Civ IV are hard, wait until its Civ 5. It is just a platform that the consol industry will not conquer. And I cannot see consols outperforming PC's...... ever.

Yes consoles are only tiny PC where you can do only games, they are simply to use, made for dummies.

Why is that insane?
I had civ2 for the playstation and played it for hours at a time.
If i remember correctly it only used the X button as well. Plus playstation controllers have a potential 14 buttons, easily enough to play a game of civ with.
Thats the beauty of civ, you can play is using all the keyboard shortcuts or using only the mouse or with a combination of the two.
There would definitely be a market for civ4 or civ5 on the ps3.

Loool...
Imagine Warcraft III on consoles oO
How do you move a mouse ? Do you get something similar of laptop's mouses?
How can you do it ?
How can you say something crazy like this and saying "would definitely be" rofl... now I understand why you dare to say that I don't do any rational debate, because you are just saying something that will never happen and you add "would definitely be", it means that you are good to be wrong.

Firstly, you can never patch a game until its perfect, it will never happen. Patches often introduce new bugs themselves.

It is possible to patch a game until it's perfect...
But the major goal is to erase all big problems.
There are still many things to fix in Civ4.

And to expect companies to act like Blizzard when it comes to patching is illogical.

Why ? Blizzard do good. So all teams should do the same.

when a game is old, why would any company want to spend time developing new patch for it?

So i repeat, why Blizzard made a new patch some days ago for Starcraft?

Resources are better spent producing new products, trying to get these as bug free as possible (something is getting harder for all companies and competition increases and deadlines are tighter).

So you prefer to do tons of incomplete and bugged products instead of make them all good.

The final patch for Civ IV fixed the game,

Nobody said it's final.
And there are things I mentionned that should be added.

and its rare to hear anybody complain about any game breaking problems.

I see many posters that cry for misc problems.

but these are in the vast minority now

75% of posts.
See the bug report forum.
He's full.

and it makes no sense to continue patching vanilla Civ, when especially with Warlords out

Why ?!
It's not complete.
Like Blizzard, a team should never abandon a past product even if it has less than 1 year, and even if he has an expansion.

the number of people interested will be minimal.

I don't think so ...
Knowing that Walords is a little weak, many people will stay on Civ4.

but with there being few now, it makes no sense to continue to patch the game,

They are not few, and it makes sense to continue to patch the game, because people will stay on Civ4, because Civ4 is not old, because Civ4 is a game to be patched in itself.

attentions should rightly be turned to patching Warlords, and creating future exapansions.

Like for Blizzard products, a patch should be done for each Warlords and Civ4 at the same time, and why creating new expansion if they are all incomplete, bugged, and with problems? First fix them all before making other things.
When you build a house, you prefer verifying all the bases, or building something new at the top of crappy bases where all the house will crash?

Its not betrayal.

It's an important betrayal for all owners of Civ4.

Of course, they could just print on the box "no guaraneed patches", if they think it's better for their business.

No patches means "I am a bad team who sells an unfinished product".
Or only not if the game is so perfect that it really doesn't need any patch, but this is rare.

You can't have perfection enforced by law.

It's not a question of law but of ethics.

I don't know what planet you're from... but that certainly isn't their objective.

I'm from Earth and even if it's not their own objective, it's their task as a "good team".

It's their task to create a game within a certain time limit, and with a limited budget, which will sell well.... and thats exactly what they did. The game sells well, and people have fun playing it... so when they released the expansion, people go out and buy it as well.

Don't confuse business objective and ethical task.

You sound like you think Fireaxis owes you something

They owes to finish the incompleted parts of Civ4.

They're not a charity. They're not going to work endless hours without pay, past the deadline, just so they can give you your perfect game. Sorry if you don't like reality.

I know what is reality, I just want to show what differenciate a good team from a bad one, their real task is to do a good product, if they don't want to do it, they are just a bad team, period.

why should I pay an extra $25 to get a game I already paid $50 for to work properly?

Yes, Civ4 should be more complete without having to pay for an expansion...

OK, not buying their games IS the solution because YOU have the problem.

It's not the solution, it's just absurd to think it, It's not my problem but theirs.

once you Don't buy Civ V you can send a letter to firaxis saying that while you are a big Civ fan, you are not buying Civ V because of their lousy patch support

Even if they have a lousy patch support, I will buy their products if I really want it, but the thing to know is that if Firaxis has a losy patch support, they are a bad team.

you can even go on this forum and tell other people not to buy Civ V because of Firaxis' Lousy Patch support.)

There is difference between not buying their products and knowing it's a bad team, one thing doesn't force the other.
horsehockey undo/redo button erased this message once ***** !

I want better patch support. But to Imply Firaxis MUST give you patch support is wrong.

If Firaxis must do a patch, it's because the game is incomplete or bugged, not because I want it, but often I want what it should be done, so when it's justified, it comes to the same thing.

They are not your Mommy who Has to feed you, clothe you and bathe you or she gets in trouble.

But if I give to them money, they should ameliorate their product.

If YOU have the problem, YOU need to solve it.

I don't have the problem, the game and the team have the problem, I'm not the maker of Civ4 so I can't solve it.

In a free country You don't get to say "I have a problem here is how YOU are going to solve it".

You don't undetstand.
It's not my problem, I just show the problem of THE GAME, then his maker have to correct HIS OWN GAME, I just do suggestions, then it's to the team to choose the way to correct the problem.

Firaxis doesn't see a problem

Being Blind doesn't mean that there is not something to see...

they think that it is a good idea that they Patch the Warlords instead of the Vanilla

They think bad, Civ4 stand alone should be patched, to respect the owners of the stand alone like Blizzard does.

it gives them more time to work on better patches for Warlords

As for Blizzard, you can make the exactly same patch for both stand alone and expansion, it won't cost you tons of hours to adapt it.

or a new game/expansion

Doing another thing when the past thing is not finished?

more time to spend with their families

Lol ... Firaxis employee are payed to stay and work at their office, so there is no "more time to spend with their families" or even ", or to spend doing totally worthless things like watch TV" because this is free time and we talk about working time.

If they thought that unpatched Vanilla was a problem, they would patch Vanilla.

This is not the way to think, a team HAVE TO continue to patch the stand alone, until all it's not solved.

The fact is no game(edit: no THING) will ever be Perfect

But you have to approach the "perfect" state the most possible.

and will especially never be perfect by your individual standards

It's not my individual standard... when I ask for something, often it's good for the game in itself for everybody.

unless you make it yourself.

I don't talk about mods.

(because then your standards will include, not too much work went into this, possible for me to do it before I die, etc.)

You are wrong.

You are not their boss, you don't get to tell them what their task is.

I'm not their boss but I know what the task of good team is : finish the games.

If they, or anyone else, wants to make a game that is bugged, incomplete, and unbalanced it is their right...

It's their task too, they are not obliged by law, but by ethics, if they don't do it, then they are a bad team.

but "incomplete" and "unbalanced" are somewhat opinions...

No, they can be absolute things.

Now if they say that it is not bugged , incomplete, and unbalanced, that is something else...

What?

and they acknowledge there may be some bugs they will never solve.

Lol ... unless it's a very big bug that is very hard to solve, ignore bugs is just absurd.

In their opinion, it is 'complete enough'/'balanced enough'/'bug free enough' at least for a 50$ game...

No, for 50$ or for all other ammounts, a game finished is something that is finished, this does not depend on the cost.

if you want it More Complete, more balanced, and more bug free, buy the 80$ game.

No No No, what you say is just immoral and illogical, you say that they do an unfinished product, only to force to buy the expansion, without free patches, this is just intolerable, (it's not 80$ but 30$ because I have already the 50$ that is the not finished), a good team don't do it, they finish to patch a game freely before, you don't realize that what you have just said is just mad.

 

[vilemerchant]

Danicela, I'm yet to meet a more annoying internet forum poster than yourself. Congratulations.

 

[auldian]

Danicela, I'm yet to meet a more annoying internet forum poster than yourself. Congratulations.

(OT)I agree. His/Her name is the one name on my /ignore list.
Regarding the original post; I hope that 2K/Firaxis does continue to patch Civilization IV "vanilla". The game will likely be available as a standalone on www.direct2drive.com for a long time. As the developers of the expansions become aware of any fixes or valuable tweaks for Civ4, it should be easy enough to gather them into patch/es. Cementing brand loyalty is a good thing.

 

[player1 fanatic]

It's not a question of law but of ethics.

As I said, laws are the way to enforce the ethics (unfortunately they are none that could benefit the gamers).

After all, games are developed for the money, not to be on high moral ground.

EDIT:
It's really difficult to respont to quoted posts, if post is compilation of responses to dozen of other posters, without their name in the quote listed.

 

[Lars_Domus]

If anyone is thinking about starting a rational debate with Danicela maybe you'd like to check this world famous thread first:http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=171049
Where he uses the same argument over and over again to prove a nonexistent point...

Oh man, how did I manage to miss that thread?

Anyway... Blizzard... They gave us Diablo II singleplayers the finger, and went on to only support their lucrative fans (WoW is pay per month, and professional SC and WC tournaments are big business in Asia.) At least Firaxis has made an effort this far.

 

[Bongo-Bongo]

Danicela, I'm yet to meet a more annoying internet forum poster than yourself. Congratulations.

Yeah, I'm beggining to think its like talking to a brick wall.

 

[T.A JONES]

90% of people don't experience the problems you experience.

T.A adds some truth to this little read. Your number of 90% is questionable. Stated for this post its less so, do to the specifics in question, but its still majorly blown up and was widened earlier in the thread to make the number 90% include the overall tech trouble expierened by WORLD market out-of-the-box. That high of a satifactory report is a lie and quite fan boy revealing on your part. If im wrong (misread) please inform and I'll apologize, otherwize I'll continue to say its the most false statement and most laughable line from a possible fanboy thats ever been stated. For real.

 

[Commander Bello]

To the guy who claimed that 90% of all buyers didn't encounter problems:

Even, if this would be right (which I doubt), it would mean that from 1.000.000 consumers 100.000 DID experience problems.
Let us assume that 50% of those experienced problems due to wrotten setups of their machines, not updated drivers and so on, it will leave us with 50.000 consumers experiencing problems due to the games programming.

This is a little town with all its inhabitants.

I would say, to rip 50.000 consumers off their money with bad quality stands for itself, doesn't it?

 

[monkspider]

I really doubt that anywhere close to 10% of the buyers had any problems with the initial release.