New Civic Idea

[KaNeaGE]

I dont post here often...or at all really, but i do love this mod and have played it off and on for well over a year. I love the idea of certain civilizations having specialities or niches that the player can tap into to meet their desire for that particular game. For instance sometimes i just want to sit back and build so i would choose Kuriotate or Khazad, or if i feel like pillaging i would choose Lanun or Hippu. A problem with this method arises when the bonuses of the civ and the starting location do not match. This is not a new issue, in fact it is almost as old as the mod itself.

My idea will hopefully help with this problem. I propose adding a new environment civic. Actually i dont really like calling it a civic because civics are government related while my idea is more for the civ as a whole. I believe this civic option should affect the way a civ uses the terrain. For instance: (This is completly open for ideas and change as i just made it up 2 mins ago)

Seafaring: +20% Naval Production, +1 to fish, clam, crab

Now i know Lanun are the pirates of FFH but can you honestly say that if the Luchuirp were on an island by themselves that they would not look toward the seas? this gives all civs the option of adapting to their surroundings. Clearly Lanun would still be the naval powerhouse because they have the better bonuses and UU's for the theme.

A few others i kicked up were:

Forestland: +20% Att/Def in forested Areas, -20% build time in forests
River Valley: +1 Food along floodplain, 1/2 move along/across rivers
Mountains: +20% Att/Def on hills, -20% build time

Tundra, desert, plains, and grasslands are other terrain types that could use a civic.

Ultimatly i think the civic choices should affect how the people interact with the environment. it should not boost city production (I know i gave a naval production boost to seafaring..but it just make so much sense ) as that is more of a labor thing nor do i think it should add commerce as that is an economic thing

Each of the civs have thier past from which they draw their skills from. once the ice is cleared they will take their skills from the past and merge it with the world they are comming back into. Thoughts?

BTW: Ive played alot of games and alot of mods, and ive gotta say the FFH team is by far the best group in terms of quality and dedication i have ever seen.

 

[thapagan]

Well it is an idea, but it might be a better one if there were negatives to go with the positive, for me it would I am thinking much longer build times and higher cost to off set the good points.

Or maybe not?

 

[loocas]

I think the major problem with this is that it doesn't offer any challenge for the player in deciding. The thing that makes the civics great is what Kael described in his modding guide: The only negative aspect of a civic should be not being able to choose the other ones. If the environmental civics were implemented, the player would choose one of them initially and most likely never change again. Even if negative effects were added, it would still be needless complication. I think it may take away from flavor too.

But I agree that poor starting locations are common. The absence of the Reload option is frustrating, but that's why the settlers have extra movement and sight (or should, I don't remember that happening in Shadow).

 

[Roghar]

I don't think it detracts from the game to make you have to search for good terrain, if not for your first cities but for your latter ones. I love it where chasing resources or strategic locations drives my directon in expansion or war. Just so long as the map itself isn't devoid of useful spots, but that should be down to map type selection mainly.

An environment civic, as has been mentioned, wouldn't really make you think or have to make too many decisions, you'd just pick whichever suited your surroundings best. The itneresting decision is in picking a race that is suited to a particular terrain type - you are taking a risk and creating an opportnuity for adventure if you don't start with what you want. I mean, same goes for reagents, or incense, or copper, or any other particular resource your civ needs to be effective.

 

[velosepappe]

Maybe you could only implement this one. A civic that is entirely meant for the people that want to leave its starting position:
Positive bonuses only apply to capital
+1 hammer from forestland
+50% ship building
possible to build a primitive oceanworthy ship (maybe has a chance to sink) to represent the people being desparate

negative modifiers apply to all cities
-1 hammer for mines
-50% city growth

This ensures that the civic will only be used at the start of the game, and not as a quick starting boost. Is also usefull for a bad tundra start

 

[KaNeaGE]

I dont think negatives are needed. looking at what i posted earlier, i didnt see any of those options as unfair. these bonuses are very specific and not major imo to warrant negatives. Actually the fact that they are very specific is in a sense a negative. Forestland is prevelent in the early game but each time your workers chop a tree they reduce the would-be bonus. rivers and hills similarly have built in negatives due to the fact that they cannot be built/changed. they are either there, or they are not.

I look at these as how your people would manipulate their surroundings. should their suroundings change their civic would also change. for instance if my first three cities are coastal then my civic would obviously be seafaring (as it should). However if my next 5 are inland, then my civic should change. look back over the bonuses and notice that none of them treat large cities better than smaller ones so there is no reason to keep your civic the same just because your original cities favor a certain civic. Empires grow and as a result the scenery changes.

Again remember that these are just my ideas i came up with literally 2 min beore i posted. If you like the idea yet dont like my bonuses then by all means create and share some that you would like

 

[Calavente]

I like the principe.

maybe add a 1 turn anarchy per city when changing this civic. (if possible)
thus, it would become a choice :
having at start a small forest land .. you go for the forest land civic..
then you develop and raze forest and conquere neighbours and find yourself land locked with 10 cities on a mini-continent.. you then want to change to seafaring tech..
but cost is 10 anarchy turns...

if this environnement civic is hard to change, taking one would be a real choice. and not an easy one. (maybe the civic I chose won't be useful for my latter development ?)

 

[KaNeaGE]

Velosepappe: true your idea would help you build a ship faster, but it would still take 50+ turns (depending on speed) to build the settler to relocate. actually it might be more because you had -50% growth during that time. i think it would be easier to just restart the game rather than spend the crutial early part of the game building to "unpack" your things.

On a side note your idea did give me one though . What if there was a civic that added +50% production to settlers. this would be a mid game civic as i really think the game is balanced during the early years for expansion. This civic would be for the period when your core empire is built and you are expanding into the frontier or are looking towards the seas. Think of it as an expansionist government policy. This civic should probably be under labor and add nothing to your empires building or military production. You must choose wether to to help yourself domestically (Serfdom, Guilds), militarily (conquest, military state), or expansion.

Expansion: +50% settler Production, +20% city growth in cities Population 4 or less (dont know if this is possible)

Calavente: i like the idea for increased anarchy but i dont think the THAT much anarchy is needed. The benifits are not good enough to warrant too much anarchy.

 

[Calavente]

exactly..

so the choice you made at first would stay for all the game.
unless you have a dramaticaly different situation, making worth the change of a hillgrubing amurite to a seafaring amurite.

thus a real choice it will be...

 

[westamastaflash]

River Valley is way too powerful. ANOTHER +1 food civic? I'd never go back.