New Civilizations

[Shyrramar]

Originally posted by EddyG17
I've never heard of Serbia, but if heard about a country named Slovenia or something like that and that's it. But then again I'm only a 9th grade student.

Serbia is the country USA bombed a few years back. Milosevic ring any bells? Serbia might not be one of the most influental civs or countries, but should be known. It is located in Balcany (if I spell it correctly in English) and is a part of the country formerly known as Yugoslavia. As Corey so vividly put, it does make you either not listening in the classes or your schools being bad. From what I have heard, the schools are bad. I should think that if my country has waged war (Even though USA wages those all the time), the people should remember the countries they have bombed more than five years!

Originally posted by deo
I dont think that the serbs are a importiant civlilization because they have not a large culture and a great history.Russia has a very great history (remember the Cold war)and he is the bigest nation today

I wonder, what do you know of Serbian history? Serbians did actually have some meaning in Balcany during the Ottoman reign. But mostly because they got their butt kicked by Turks Russia's historical significance goes way beyond the Cold War.

I also do think that Civ's civilizations are well picked. The only thing that comes in to mind is the lack of African cultures, such as Ethiopia/Abyssinia. That was a big name back then . More European civs are definately not needed. It is understandable that they have a big part, but the part should not be increased anymore. You can have all the Austrias, Polands and Hungaries in European mods. Hey, I am content even though they haven't added the Great And Glorious And Historically Most Significant Finland! We have many great rally-drivers, and of course Matti Nykänen. Matti, anyone? The one with the skis? Great jumper? Later a bit alcoholic, but Very Important Character anyway? Anyone?

And without Finland, some other country would be the one that nobody cares about and nobody can locate on the map (due to the fact they are looking for it in SE-Asia) and some other country would go on ranting because everybody thought Nokia was Japanese

 

[Shyrramar]

In fact, there are a few civs in Civ 3 I think are much less deserving of being in the game than the ones I'd like to see (such as Sumeria and Hatti).

Hey, ease up on the Sumerians already! They are one of the most important civs of the history. The cradle of civilization the Mesopotamia is called - and Sumeria is the one that started it all. They are in essence the same people that we like to call Babylonians, although Babylonian reign was there a bit later. With the same logic you should just ditch India...

I think there shouldn't be much more civs in the game. More is not always the better. Some might just as well be added, such as Sioux, Ethiopia, Khmer. A civ from Indonesia would be interesting, but what civ would that be?

Hey, let's ditch Rome and replace it by Finland! Rome didn't have Matti Nykänen and the Italians are terrible drivers...

 

[toh6wy]

Originally posted by Shyrramar
Hey, ease up on the Sumerians already! They are one of the most important civs of the history. The cradle of civilization the Mesopotamia is called - and Sumeria is the one that started it all. They are in essence the same people that we like to call Babylonians, although Babylonian reign was there a bit later. With the same logic you should just ditch India...

I think there shouldn't be much more civs in the game. More is not always the better. Some might just as well be added, such as Sioux, Ethiopia, Khmer. A civ from Indonesia would be interesting, but what civ would that be?

Hey, let's ditch Rome and replace it by Finland! Rome didn't have Matti Nykänen and the Italians are terrible drivers...

Still, as important as Sumerians might be, I'd rather see one of the civs on my list. IMO, there're just too many civs in the Middle East right now! Their UU is stupid too - there was never any such thing as an "Enkidu Warrior." And besides, if they were really that important, wouldn't it be *them* in Civ 3 vanilla and the *Babylonians* introduced in Conquests? Eh?
I don't get your "India" argument. What civ in Civ 3 is basically the same as India?
Have you ever seen TETurkhan's Test of Time mod? It comes with at least Play the World, and I think Conquests too. It has a complete Indonesian civ (as in, the people who lived in what is now Indonesia in ancient times, it seems), and actually a fair number of cities on its city list. If a third-party modder can find enough info for an Indonesian civ, then Firaxis/Atari/whoever certainly can too.
First of all, Italy does not equal Rome. Second of all, Finland is already represented by Scandinavia.

[edit]Yee-haaawww! Custom avatar time![/edit]

 

[Corey]

Originally posted by Shyrramar
Serbia is the country USA bombed a few years back. Milosevic ring any bells? Serbia might not be one of the most influental civs or countries, but should be known. It is located in Balcany (if I spell it correctly in English) and is a part of the country formerly known as Yugoslavia. As Corey so vividly put, it does make you either not listening in the classes or your schools being bad. From what I have heard, the schools are bad. I should think that if my country has waged war (Even though USA wages those all the time), the people should remember the countries they have bombed more than five years!




I wonder, what do you know of Serbian history? Serbians did actually have some meaning in Balcany during the Ottoman reign. But mostly because they got their butt kicked by Turks Russia's historical significance goes way beyond the Cold War.

I also do think that Civ's civilizations are well picked. The only thing that comes in to mind is the lack of African cultures, such as Ethiopia/Abyssinia. That was a big name back then . More European civs are definately not needed. It is understandable that they have a big part, but the part should not be increased anymore. You can have all the Austrias, Polands and Hungaries in European mods. Hey, I am content even though they haven't added the Great And Glorious And Historically Most Significant Finland! We have many great rally-drivers, and of course Matti Nykänen. Matti, anyone? The one with the skis? Great jumper? Later a bit alcoholic, but Very Important Character anyway? Anyone?

And without Finland, some other country would be the one that nobody cares about and nobody can locate on the map (due to the fact they are looking for it in SE-Asia) and some other country would go on ranting because everybody thought Nokia was Japanese

Everything is here.And can someone explain me why Venice should be putted as a new Civ??

 

[EddyG17]

I never took a geography class. It is offerd in six grade and i came to the states in late 7th grade.
And yes, schools here in the states are ... err... lets say... not the best ones.

Didn't Yugoslavia beak up into two countries? or was Yugolslavia that break up from another country?

 

[Shyrramar]

Originally posted by toh6wy
And besides, if they were really that important, wouldn't it be *them* in Civ 3 vanilla and the *Babylonians* introduced in Conquests? Eh?

Well, this is hardly an argument!

I don't get your "India" argument. What civ in Civ 3 is basically the same as India?

It was supposed to be a humorous comment about ditching Sumeria because it was unimportant being comparable to ditching India for the same reasons. I don't think that it should be done, and indeed, there is no civ to replace Indians (and shouldn't be). I am simply arguing that Sumeria should be preserved.

There are a lot of Mid-Eastern cultures, I agree, but that has a solid basis: there simply have been so many important cultures there. They have affected Europe, Asia and Africa.

Have you ever seen TETurkhan's Test of Time mod? It comes with at least Play the World, and I think Conquests too. It has a complete Indonesian civ (as in, the people who lived in what is now Indonesia in ancient times, it seems), and actually a fair number of cities on its city list. If a third-party modder can find enough info for an Indonesian civ, then Firaxis/Atari/whoever certainly can too.

I haven't played it but I have seen it. Yes, I believe there could be an Indonesian civ to be created and it would be fine by me. If I have understood correctly, Indonesia has indeed been a relevant civilization is times long gone..

First of all, Italy does not equal Rome. Second of all, Finland is already represented by Scandinavia.

I was being sarcastic...

 

[Shyrramar]

Originally posted by EddyG17
I never took a geography class. It is offerd in six grade and i came to the states in late 7th grade.
And yes, schools here in the states are ... err... lets say... not the best ones.

Didn't Yugoslavia beak up into two countries? or was Yugolslavia that break up from another country?

You have optional geography? My, my, things are even worse than I ever imagined . Atleast here in Finland we have geography about two, three hours a week from grade three or something to grade nine. Well, it can hardly be your fault that the schools suck there . Once I saw this geographic contest, where students from different countries drew the map of the world as they remembered it. There were some countries that could do it very well (Israel and Finland being two of them, Israel won actually). The American versions were, well, I couldn't decide if they were funny or sad. America took about half the globe, South America being the size of Florida. Australia was the size of Hawaii. Only thing that was big other than USA was Europe. It was bigger than other continents (it is in fact the smallest - or is Australia a bit smaller?). Then there was Iraq, almost in the right spot, Big and Mean as hell

Yugoslavia was a whole country before the nineties. It first broke down into Serbia, Bosnia-Hertzegovina (or however it spelled in English) and Croatia. What you are remembering is Kosovo (It is spelled differently in English, but I do not remember how) that war trying to gain its independence of Serbia when Serbia attacked and started a genocide (or perhaps it should be said, that allegedly started a genocide, as the convictions are not yet clear). Now Kosovo is being controlled by UN troops. Serbia is now officially Serbia-Montenegro. Corey can fill up the rest, if he so desires - I am no expert on Serbia, just telling what I remember of the events.

 

[Furius]

Sumeria and Babylon are rather large problems at current. But what if each Civ had more than one name? Every time you had a revolution you could change the name to something else. They would be on a cycle so that you'd come back to the original one when you got to the end of the list.
That way when Sumeria had a revolution and became a monarchy or republic its name would change to Babylon it might even become Iraq when it became a fascism. This could also make it appear that the same civs hadn't existed for 4000 years.
France could have been Gaul to start with and so on.
Ghana, Mali and Songhai could all be the same Civ.

 

[EddyG17]

you know it is funny because it is true. In the first test I had in my World History class there was a question the teacher didn't went over, it was:
What continet is Egypt in?
No body knew the answer except by me. It is so sad... That's why now that I've learned English, i'm getting into the IB(international Bacclerau?) program.

Australia it is not a continent, it is a country. But Australia and along the many Islands in the Area are part of Oceania(Hope it is spelled rigth) or at least that is what they taugth me back in Peru.

 

[Shyrramar]

Originally posted by EddyG17
you know it is funny because it is true. In the first test I had in my World History class there was a question the teacher didn't went over, it was:
What continet is Egypt in?
No body knew the answer except by me. It is so sad... That's why now that I've learned English, i'm getting into the IB(international Bacclerau?) program.

Oh boy! Well, playing civ does become handy then, doesn't it? We had to learn every European country and its capital by heart at fourth class (over 40 back then, BTW). And in addition we learned every mountain-range, all the big lakes, all the rivers and seas. But it is not the knowing-by-heart that counts. In Finland atleast we pay much attention to what each country is like. What kind of agriculture is in Brazil, how much does it rain in Zimbabwe. What neighbours do they have, what customs and wars and such. We actually made an "Africa File" in fifth grade, a folder with details of 40 African nation, and of course the list of them all.

I think it is very important to know other cultures, to try to understand them. USA is putting its nose into everybodys business without even understanding the situations. The politicians have experts consulting them, luckily, but the people who support their leaders seem to know next to nothing about the countries they are waging war against. It has been a custom in USA to be so proud of their own history, that they don't learn others'. That makes many Americans think that everyone would like to be like America. Almost all the foreign students we have had have been shocked when they realised how Americans were actually seen by the world. Then they are asking in astonishment: why wouldn't any Iraqi citizen want to be "liberated" by America? Why indeed...

But this is of course not the place to discuss these things.. Just kind of slipped

 

[EddyG17]

I think there no need for more civs i the game. Maybe for a mod like the test of time new civs are always wellcome.

PS. I knew well long before playing civ that Egypt is in Africa.

 

[Ribannah]

Historically, Indonesia could be considered part of the Polynesian civilization, with Jakarta as a logical choice for the capital of Polynesia. There was a thriving civilization in those parts before the Europeans arrived.

 

[Shyrramar]

The more I think of it the more I would like to see Polynesian civ. This and Ethiopia, perhaps Khmer, and most certainly Israelities a. k. a. Jews!

 

[steviejay]

Originally posted by deo
Other civs wuld be:
.....Scotland

you've made a friend today COME ON SCOTLAND!!!!

I'd really like to see the Scotish as a Civ, would be awesome, Highlander, replaces warrior and is 2/1/1 or maybe Black watch soldiers, replaces Infantry or something.

Not so much a new civ but a change. I'd like to see Germany be renamed Prussia, especially with Bismarck as a leader, either that or change the leader to Stressman or someone like that.

Polish is a must in my opinion, as well as the Israli's (bad spelling)

I was gonna say the Boers, but thats not really a civilization.

The Fins maybe (or is it Finnish? no offence intended) their UU could be like a unit similar to Alpine Troops from Civ2.

 

[Manverulin]

The civs that I'd like to see most are the African civs (like Songhai, Nubia, Abyssinia), Tibet, Polynesia, and Siam. And Canada! So basically any non-European civ.

Originally posted by EddyG17
It is so sad... That's why now that I've learned English, i'm getting into the IB(international Bacclerau?) program.

Hey, I'm in the Interrnational Baccalaureate program too!

 

[CivArmy s. 1994]

If they included USA, they could put in Civ 04 these civis:
- Brazil
- Canada
- Australia
- Argentina
- Cuba

Some old civis could be included too, like hebrews, phoenician, caldeus, acadines and other semite civis (sorry if the noun of these civis are not correctly, perdon my bad English).
More civis:
- Bantu (Africa)
- Lybians (Africa)
- Mandingas (the root ofmali, Ghana, Songhai...)
- Birmania
- Indonesia
- Polynesia
- Tupi or Jês (Native Indians from present Brazil)

 

[Shyrramar]

Originally posted by steviejay

Not so much a new civ but a change. I'd like to see Germany be renamed Prussia, especially with Bismarck as a leader, either that or change the leader to Stressman or someone like that.

This is a good idea. It would probably just result in endless questions about "Why is there no Germany in Civ4?! I want GERMANY! I WANT I WANT I WANT!"

The Fins maybe (or is it Finnish? no offence intended) their UU could be like a unit similar to Alpine Troops from Civ2.

Oh come on, let's face it. What did we Finns (this is the correct form - how could anyone take offence? ) do? Other than worked as an efficient buffer-zone between Russia and Sweden? It's nice to be a buffer-zone... I am a Finn, but I also happen to have some touch on reality still: Finns are not needed. We can happily be one of the pesky barbarian groups!

The only thing we are needed in is WWII, where Alpine Troops would indeed become handy (although Finland is quite flat. You can ski of flat land too, nonetheless!). And in driving formulas and rally. (And remember Matti Nykänen ) Kimi Räikkönen could be our UU: it would bore its enemies to death with monotonic, robot like mumbling about "stupid McLaren technicians"

 

[deo]

Originally posted by Shyrramar
Serbia is the country USA bombed a few years back. Milosevic ring any bells? Serbia might not be one of the most influental civs or countries, but should be known.

I wonder, what do you know of Serbian history? Serbians did actually have some meaning in Balcany during the Ottoman reign. But mostly because they got their butt kicked by Turks Russia's historical significance goes way beyond the Cold War.

I know a part of the serbs history because i live in Kosovo(look my location)and I know all the history of balkan.The serbs were barbarians that came here at the VII century and estabilished Serbia.Than after dusans death(The greatest leader of the serbs) the turks came in balkan and conquerd Serbia.

Originally posted by Corey<PHT>
Everything is here.And can someone explain me why Venice should be putted as a new Civ??.

Sorry venice was my mistake but in fact they where more importiant than Serbia

Originally posted by steviejay
you've made a friend today COME ON SCOTLAND!!!!

I'd really like to see the Scotish as a Civ, would be awesome, Highlander, replaces warrior and is 2/1/1 or maybe Black watch soldiers, replaces Infantry or something.

Yes that will be nice and i think the Highlander will replace the swordsman and be powerfuller.William Wallec ( I hope i spelled it correctly) will be the leader.

 

[King Aldous XI]

I think the Celts should be divided into 3 groups,
-Welsh
-Irish
-Scotch

It annoying to be the Celts because all of their cities are Latin translated!

 

[h4ppy]

Originally posted by CivArmy s. 1994
If they included USA, they could put in Civ 04 these civis:
- Brazil
- Canada
- Australia
- Argentina
- Cuba

why is that, canada didn't get full independance until the 1980's and Australia is still technically ruled by a forgien power. (the queen) I do agree with Argentina and Brasil though.