New Governments??

[RX2000]

Sorry if this has been posted here before..... I looked but couldnt really find anything about it.

Does anyone know anything about the new governments that are being added. To me, that is one of the main things I am looking for in the expansion. I always felt that the govt's it Civ3 just werent enough. Basically you were limited to being a Democracy in peace, Republic for a short war, and Monarchy/Communism for a long war.

Now I know that CTP wasnt a very good game, but at least it had several different forms of government. I would like to see like 5+ new balanced govt's for Conquests.

 

[Sarevok]

It saYS on the site its gonna add some, including an Islamic Sultanate.

 

[RX2000]

Yea but it doesnt say if they'll be any good or not.

 

[WillJ]

Well, let's see... They might include fascism, but that might not be politically correct. Then there's theocracy/fundamentalism, oligarchy, aristrocracy, with possible specific examples (such as Islamic Sultanate for theocracy). And maybe some more.

I'm pretty sure that we're not supposed to know for sure yet (besides Islamic Sultanate).

 

[Sarevok]

they might even add a constitutional monarchy.

 

[slothman]

OK so why is fascism not PC but communism is? We haven't fought a fascist country in a while while communism was just 15 years ago. I just hope new governments while have new attributes than the current ones. Ones we can't create in thre editor.

 

[WillJ]

Originally posted by slothman
OK so why is fascism not PC but communism is?

Here's my take on it:

If you just look at history, there's really not much of a reason; evil has come out of both of them. However, communism was orignially meant to be a good thing, and fundamentally it is not in any way a non-PC type thing. However, fascism directly involves terror, censorship, and extreme nationalism and racism.

 

[RX2000]

Hmm I think it would be unfortunate if they decided not to include Fascism because its not "PC."

 

[Sarevok]

yeah, i think this whole 'politically correct' crap in just irritating, its a game where you should be able to do whatever you want involving history. Where is fascism? where is poison gas? you dont put them in because someone might get pissed off? Hell, the world hates the USA anyway...

 

[joespaniel]

Fascism is outlawed in several countries that Civ3 is sold in, while communism is not.

As for the original question, I believe that the Fundamentalist government is making a comeback in Conquests.

 

[Lynx]

under the cover up of 'islamic sultanate'.

 

[RX2000]

So if "Fascism" is outlawed in a country, a computer game cant even be sold in that country that depicts Fascism in it? Thats harsh. Glad America isnt like that.

Anyways, Sarevok, do you have any ideas on how a Constitutional Monarchy could be implemented in the game? What sorts of drawbacks and advantages should it have, in your opinion?

 

[Matrix]

A heritage of WW2; we were annexed and our (Jewish) population was slaughtered, so we didn't want anyone to come to such an idea again. Mein Kampf is only accessible for historians.

By the way, I believe more than enough things were banned in the US because of it's anti-war attitude. (A videoclip of System of a Down e.g.)

Anyway, I doubt that this game will be banned here because of the possible government of Fascism. And I think Islamic Sultanate is a very bad name! Why Islamic in it? That's just a religion. If there's one thing the makers of Civ3 have accomplished it's staying politically neutral, but whatever Islamic Sultanate will be as government; they clearly put a stamp on the religion Islam.

By the way, is it me, or aren't there almost no sultans anymore in the Middle East? I think they're almost all kings now. But whatever the name is, I also can't imagine what would be different about an Islamic Sultanate and a simply Monarchy.

Civ2's fundamentalism almost doesn't exist in the real world IMO.

 

[Pembroke]

Oh, come on now!

I can accept that a dictatorship can (try to) ban any stuff it wants but I'm pretty sure no Western country has banned things *about* Fascism. At most Fascism itself as a political movement with perhaps promoting it added in for good measure.

I mean if things *about* Fascism/Nazism were banned then no WW2 movies could be shown even with the Nazis as the "bad guys", no book could be sold where the criminal was a neo-nazi, and so on. Which would be simply too darned unbelievable and contrary to our observations. I'm sure you can find "Saving Private Ryan" and "Schindler's List" even in the European video stores.

However, even though I very much think that Firaxis could add Fascism without any concern about legalities or even bows to the dreaded PC god, whether it would be good for the game is something I'm not so sure of.

Yes, you could have dozens of governments in the game, but as their only game differences would be in the production penalties/bonuses, unit support and propaganda modifieres what would really be the point? Would government A with "free 8 units per metropolis" be different enough from government B with "free 7 units per metropolis" to make the choice between them meaningful?

This is also the reason why I fear the "Islamic Sultanate" will only be some sugar coating without too much thought about whether it's really *needed* in the game.

Well, they *could* add new things and variables for the governments. That would be a different story. Here's to hope.

 

[RX2000]

I'm hoping they will put in a better wartime government. I dont want it to be too unbalancing, like Fundamentalism was in Civ2, but I get tired of having to either choose Communism or Monarchy. (Yes Republic is good for shorter wars, I'm talking about huge wars.)

Maybe if Fascism was included, it could be a good wartime government. Maybe it would severely limit commerce, but would let you have a bunch of free units per city. (Errr wait a minute, that sounds like Fundamentalism! )

I agree with Pembroke though, Fascism is pretty much a given in any movies about Nazis, and I dont think most of them are outlawed in Europe. I dont see how putting Fascism in a little computer game could hurt anyone.

 

[WillJ]

The reason Firaxis/Atari probably wouldn't include fascism is not because it is in any way outlawed, but instead that some people might be upset. Probably not too many (I know I wouldn't be; it's just a game after all), but probably more than the number of people upset with fascism not in Civ3. You have to think about it in marketing purposes.

Plus the fact that fascism is a type of despotism, which is already in the game. The only thing making fascism "special" is racism, extreme nationalism, and a sense of superiority to someone. Would that make much of a difference in Civ terms? In fact, like Pembroke said, unless more possible differences between govs are introduced, I doubt any new ones should be included.