New Horizons: A total conversion for BE

[Machiavelli24]

Here is a screenshot of what it is likely to look like for the first release. Sadly without being able to see the buildings tooltips just looking at the icons won't be extremely informative, as some buildings have had their role changed greatly. For example, the pharmalab requires oil and the Cytronusery and Vivarium each require basic food resources nearby.


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[the strategic resources]...leads to is a huge gamble that can make that one tech extremely powerful or very weak based on something that the player can't know beforehand.

This is something I've had concerns about and will be keeping an eye on after "the early years" update is released. I'm hoping the strategic resource reveal techs won't be as big of a gamble as iron for swordsman was in civ5 because the really good early game uses of them will be on the leaf techs under them. So if you research Chemistry, see you have no oil, you'll know not to go get Biochemistry since the Pharmalab and Miasma Repulser both require oil.

Since each strategic resource gates access to a certain aspect (Titanium for Armor/Artillery, Oil for orbital, Geothermal for Spy Agency and Wonders) everyone will need each strategic by the mid game. So I expect everyone will grab all the reveal techs by the time the early game is coming to a close.

The big risk with this approach is that since everyone needs at least a minimal supply of each strategic resource a bad start without access to a specific strategic could be crippling.
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To the degree that they are the efficient ones, they will make terrain dictate technology. What's your thinking here, Machiavelli?

I think tying certain buildings to certain resources can be good for gameplay though - it just means that you have to improvise every single game and think about a way to make the best out of the resources that are available.

Together you've captured the risk and the allure of the idea. The recycler -- which has its tooltip in the screenshot above -- is an example of one of the "efficient resource" buildings. The Quests are designed to have a per-building and a per-player option. So even getting only 1 Recycler can be worth it.
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cboxall, good to hear that everything worked out for you, even if it didn't end in your glorious victory! I have been concerned that Artillery doesn't scale enough to overcome the raw strength of city defense buildings. One of the things the early years update will change is generally reducing the number and effectiveness of city defense buildings in the first tech ring.

 

[Doviello]

Hey yo, im in the process of finishing my second game with your mod, and i'm having a ton of fun! This, + sea cities mod + glacial biome + improved UI + late affinity victory mod. Feels like a new game already. Some things need work, though

Spoiler :

The AI doesn't build artillery, ever. They try hard to take cities, really hard actually, but fail. In this game (screenshot above), i started in the center of the map, so i waged several wars, everyone declared on me at some point (souyz level), and i survived by means of abusing aircraft and the AI lack of artillery. I did lost a few sea cities a couple times, but only because they are weaker than land cities in this other mod. I was surprised that the Ai actually brought a marine around with the navy so there's that Thought about quitting a few times, but im glad that i managed to survive the onslaught.

When i finally went on the offense, i couldn't take cities, because even my affinity 3 artillery were getting one-shotted by cities. They deal ok damage but die too fast. Melee units could survived bombardment, but rangers and artillery could not. Even 3 planes can't damage cities fast enough for them to fall. The only cities i took were the sea cities i lost and that one from ARC, by a trade deal, when they surrendered after failing to invade me. The game isn't finished yet, but right now (turn 320) i'm able to field lvl 4 ships and artillery, so im FINALLY able to actually invade.

I like the slower research and changes to energy, but i struggled the entire game with health, always floating between 0 and -10.

Half of the AI are not using spies. Maybe they had trouble connecting geothermal?

Culture is harder to come by, so Artists feel overpowered. Have you considered adding colonists rebalances to your list of changes? I almost went with pioneers, but i always regret not taking Artists. Otoh there are plenty of colonist-choice mods out there though, so, meh

AI turns take longer than usual with new horizons, MAINLY station turns. Each AI takes about a second, but stations (and sometimes aliens) take like, 4 to 20 seconds. What is there for stations to do that they freeze the turn timer so much? I tried disabling only your mod and the slowdown was gone.

Units sometimes don't follow automated orders. auto-exploring explorers sometimes just stay in place, somehow consuming all their move points doing that. I saw aliens and AI explorers doing the same, just sleeping in one tile forever. For me, moving the unit one tile and giving another auto-explore order is enough to fix it, but AI and aliens can't do that.

Sometimes embarked units can't share tile with ships, i have to disembark the unit and then embark it again so it can share tiles with warships, but this may have something to do with the seacity mod.

Overall, this is a great mod, really really good, and i'm glad it's a work in progress. I never liked city ranged attacks, and would suggest to weaken them (their ranged attack, not the cities themselves), not only my personal dislike for cities auto-attack, but because they are a damn tough nut to crack in my short experience.

 

[Machiavelli24]

Thanks for the feedback Doviello! There is a good chance I will work on a Colonist and Cargo update first.

Have you considered adding colonists rebalances to your list of changes?

The next big update I was planning was for the 2nd ring of techs and building. I'm targeting July 14, for coolness reasons (the video got me excited). But it does sound like implementing the colonist and cargo changes first would provide a big benefit in play style and opening strategy.

auto-exploring explorers sometimes just stay in place...I saw aliens and AI explorers doing the same, just sleeping in one tile forever.

This is caused by expeditions requiring 2 modules. The AI seems to be designed with the assumption that 1 module is enough. So it will sit on a site and try (but fail) to salvage it. I like the design of slowing down the early rush for salvage but the fact that it trips up the AI is its largest drawback.

Half of the AI are not using spies. Maybe they had trouble connecting geothermal?

That is correct. Given that spies are needed to effectively defend against spies I've been concerned that I need to provide alternative sources of geo, remove the geothermal requirement, or move things like the all-seer and holomatrix's reduced intrigue effect to be accessible in the early/mid game.

The AI doesn't build artillery, ever. They try hard to take cities, really hard actually, but fail.

When i finally went on the offense, i couldn't take cities, because even my affinity 3 artillery were getting one-shotted by cities. They deal ok damage but die too fast. Melee units could survived bombardment, but rangers and artillery could not.

I'm looking to change the way city strength scale. It will probably include reducing the strength provided by Defensive buildings, the raw damage that city ranged attacks can do and making artillery more resilient to ranged attacks.

AI turns take longer than usual with new horizons, MAINLY station turns. Each AI takes about a second, but stations (and sometimes aliens) take like, 4 to 20 seconds.

That is weird and concerning. I don't have any code that should be running every turn and there isn't anything special for stations (yet -- long term I plan for them to be integral in Purity's alternative victory condition).

 

[Doviello]

Y'know, some of the mods i like to use put extra things on a few techs (like the seasteading mod, which adds about 4 new improvements, all over the tech tree), but those mods seem to work perfectly with NH, because you kinda of kept all original techs, just changed them around. If you do change the second ring (this will be great!) keep the techs, just switch their content around, for compatibility reasons.

I think city strenght is fine, but less damage with ranged attacks would be good. Like a -50% dmg against everything except aliens.

As for the spy agency, i don't know. If it's something everyone will need to have, then i don't see why make it resource dependent.

Another thing i remembered, some buildings have the quest tooltip under their description, other doesn't. Did you make it so some types of buildings will not spawn any quest?

Another thing, rising tide is not that far away, so don't get burned out with this mod! RT, like every ciV xpac, will add a lot of cool things, that could have been a little cooler if implemented "right", so i fully expect a RT version of NH :crossarmsdefiantly:

 

[Machiavelli24]

Having other mods work with NH is possible but tricky. Many mods will need to load after NH (which can be done by making the other mod dependent on NH in the other mod's modInfo file) otherwise there is a good chance NH will delete some building/virtue/perk/unit/tile improvement/military element of the other mod.

The building quest issue you noticed, there are a couple possible causes but all of them should be pretty simple to fix. Do you have a screenshot of the issue?

As for Rising Tide, I'm looking forward to it. I want to get as much done with NH before Rising Tides comes out. Once it is out I'll have to evaluate the best way forward. It may be a process of porting NH to Rising Tides or it may be a more fundamental redesign to incorporate the new mechanics of Rising Tides.

 

[Doviello]

I do try to not pick any mod that changes something yours does, like improvements, units, or quests.

The building quest tooltip issue was me being dumb. The buildings on the first ring have tooltips, the ones outside doesn't. derp.

The load times for stations, was getting really bad. Around turn 350, station turns lasted over a minute, i had to retire, and im a proud no-quitter I belive it was a problem with another mod, though, so i started another game to test.

 

[cboxall]

It would seem I spoke a little too soon. Most of WHoward's Pick'N'Mix work great with New Horizons, but there are a few to avoid. Specifically, do not use any of the Quests mods or the Tabulated Building Quests mod. I haven't tested any of the following with New Horizons -

FireTuner mods
Victories - Automated Exodus Gate
Icon Viewer
Texture Viewer
Alien XP mods
Fortify Almost Healed
Change Planetfall
Random City Names

Don't have any reason to think the untested mods wouldn't work, but I didn't want to infer that I had tested them when I hadn't.

 

[cboxall]

The early years update appears to have fixed the strangeness I was seeing with Missle Rovers and their upgraded versions. They are again useful in taking cities.

 

[Dahebbie]

Hi Machiavelli

Another great effort from you this looks to be!

I bought BE three days ago and have played 2-3 games 100-120 turns, the last one on the second highest level.

I'am thinking about playing New Horizons, in the hope that it will add the same kind of fun that RaR, RfR, SGPC all did to Civ V BNW. NH looks to make even more changes than those did, am I right in that analisys?

In your own oppinion, is NH ready to play and will it give me a better game than without?

It seems to work with "User Interface Tweeks" from IphStich and infoaddict, do you know of any conflicts?

Where did the energy from rivers go? Did you write about this in the OP? I have read it over and over time and again, can't find anything about that, is it a bug?

Thx again :-D

 

[Dahebbie]

Hi again

The +50 culture quest from old earth relic (I guess you meant 50%) doesn't work, see the screenshots.

Also, in one of the early buildings that require a resource, Geothermic I think, it says in the text that at source of petroleum will be deducted from .... etc. Think I found this on two occasions. Will get back on this, when I play and see it again tomorrow.

Are the aliens more aggressive with your mod? They are ALL OVER THE PLACE Need 5 marines to guard my trade routes... Damn. Heh, but fun. And the fence doesn't keep the routes safe in the N-and-a-little-scary-H...

Thx again

 

[Ryika]

It's 50 flat culture if you pick that option (as in "Your current total culture is increased by 50") and as far as I can tell it works just fine.

 

[Dahebbie]

It's 50 flat culture if you pick that option (as in "Your current total culture is increased by 50") and as far as I can tell it works just fine.

LOL. Of cause. Thx

 

[Machiavelli24]

In your own oppinion, is NH ready to play and will it give me a better game than without?

A good way to think about New Horizons as of 7/14/2015 is that it is like playing with all of my Civ 5 modular mods at once.

It seems to work with "User Interface Tweeks" from IphStich and infoaddict, do you know of any conflicts?

New Horizons changes one user interface file (InfoTooltipInclude.lua). If another mod also changes that file then which ever mod loads second will overwrite the changes of the first mod. It shouldn't produce any game-play issues but it could mean effects aren't displayed correctly.

To fix it the two files would need to be merged. Merging could be easy or tricky but it would require a bit of programming knowledge and I would be willing to do it for anyone who uses those mods with New Horizons.

Where did the energy from rivers go?

It was intentionally removed but not explicitly called out anywhere. Which is why it is confusing.

Are the aliens more aggressive with your mod? They are ALL OVER THE PLACE

A bit. Aliens greater strength also makes it less trivial to wipe out their initial population.

 

[Machiavelli24]

If you've been watching the news this week you have probably heard about NASA's mission to Pluto "New Horizons". In celebration of this mod's namesake successfully flying past Pluto I want to share some info on the next update, which I'm targeting for 7/19.

The main new feature will be all new colonists/cargo/spacecraft. It will break the common opener of Artist/Worker/See Strategics.

The second feature will be revamped role for Titanium. It is no longer needed for Armor and Artillery (but is still needed for some Affinity units) but it is needed for Repair Facilities. It is also needed for a new building -- the "drydock" which is required to produce naval military units. Titanium is also required for Carriers.

Longer term, I'm working on replacing all the ring 2 techs. That however is still at least a month out that update will be larger than the "early years" update.

 

[Dahebbie]

A good way to think about New Horizons as of 7/14/2015 is that it is like playing with all of my Civ 5 modular mods at once.

Perfect!

New Horizons changes one user interface file (InfoTooltipInclude.lua). If another mod also changes that file then which ever mod loads second will overwrite the changes of the first mod. It shouldn't produce any game-play issues but it could mean effects aren't displayed correctly.

This could be the reason for the second error I wrote about in post #50?

Also, in one of the early buildings that require a resource, Geothermic I think, it says in the text that at source of petroleum will be deducted from .... etc. Think I found this on two occasions. Will get back on this, when I play and see it again tomorrow.

To fix it the two files would need to be merged. Merging could be easy or tricky but it would require a bit of programming knowledge and I would be willing to do it for anyone who uses those mods with New Horizons.

That would be awesome and much appriciated! The User Interface Tweeks is making a lot of this in the game a much easier to interface with imo.

It was intentionally removed but not explicitly called out anywhere. Which is why it is confusing.

IC. Maybe write it in the OP?

A bit. Aliens greater strength also makes it less trivial to wipe out their initial population.

OK, this is a god idea imo. The starting turns actually feel like being on a dangerous planet now, which is nice

The main new feature will be all new colonists/cargo/spacecraft. It will break the common opener of Artist/Worker/See Strategics.

The second feature will be revamped role for Titanium. It is no longer needed for Armor and Artillery (but is still needed for some Affinity units) but it is needed for Repair Facilities. It is also needed for a new building -- the "drydock" which is required to produce naval military units. Titanium is also required for Carriers.

Longer term, I'm working on replacing all the ring 2 techs. That however is still at least a month out that update will be larger than the "early years" update.

Will this 15/07/19 update be backwards compatible with current saves?

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Thx again for all your work, this is great!

 

[Machiavelli24]

in one of the early buildings that require a resource, Geothermic I think, it says in the text that at source of petroleum will be deducted from .... etc.

Do you have a screen shot? The building is presumably the field reactor (costs Geothermal) or the PharmaLab (costs Oil). Or it could be the Borehole (requires nearby tile with Geothermal) or the Petrol Plant (requires nearby tile with Oil).
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As for the next update, it will break saves. But at least now -- unlike the old days -- you can have multiple versions of a mod on your computer at the same time without Civ getting confused and failing to configure them when starting up.

 

[cboxall]

Can not wait for the next update! My current game is most likely drawing to a close (with me winning for once), and I'm super excited at the idea of being able to start a new one with updated starting options. You rock Machiavelli24!

 

[Dahebbie]

A small error in the helping text for the repair facility

 

[Machiavelli24]

Good catch Dahebbie. Some of that requirement text is generated automatically, some of it is not. I'll sync up that text in the next update.

Can not wait for the next update! My current game is most likely drawing to a close (with me winning for once), and I'm super excited at the idea of being able to start a new one with updated starting options.

Speaking of the next update. It isn't going to be done today. A couple of starting option sets combined with certain sponsors too effectively. I'm going to need to adjust the design. As for when it will be done, I'll have limited time during the week so earliest is middle of the week with next weekend being more likely.

 

[Dahebbie]

And the cruiser to