New Money?

[Gargantutron]

yep. try it if you dont believe it Babbler & Colonel.
goto a bank of your choice and tell them you dont trust the dollar anymore and thus wish to get its value in gold...

if you want gold goto a goldsmith. a bank... nope. sorry.

 

[Colonel]

ahh but this negates the purpose of this discussion because up until recently it has been the other way. Anyways Even if the US isnt backed by gold anymore they still have the gold from when they did or at least alot of it

 

[sir_schwick]

But what is wrong with an option to see the moeny as the currency of choice? You could even name it some-thing that wuuld represent the standard. Why does this one thing have to follow history? Its something that won't affect gameplay and should be easy to implement.

I'm not argueing whether gold was the currency standard, I'm argueing why should we care.

 

[ManOfMiracles]

I'm all for letting the player rename the currency just for fun. I'm going for Yapese rai! Introducing currency exchanges would be a bit much and would take away from the fun of the game.

 

[Trade-peror]

Yes. This appears to be a label issue where everyone is arguing the technicalities. Although I could essentially care less whether the money is gold or dollars or euro or lira or denarii, it would be simplest just to allow players to change the name to whatever suits them.

 

[Lieni]

I mean every Civ should have its own currency. This makes the game much more interesting and it allows us to consider the inflation. I often wonder why i see the word "Inflation" that rarely in the Civ4 forums. Maybe the idea of an inflation cannot be realized by the creators...

 

[Trade-peror]

I rather doubt that inflation is of interest to most players, largely because most do not know what it is or does. In any case, I am curious as to how inflation would make the game more interesting. Could you elaborate or perhaps cite a few examples, Lieni? I would like to know!

 

[Captain]

Well there should at least be levels of currency around the world (lets say the value of the English dollar is 1/2 that of the US dollar wherein 1 US dollar, gold whatever = 2 of the English. If the stock markets actually get this compex in the game, I'd celebrate.

 

[Trade-peror]

Besides adding more realism to the game (which I consider a virtue, but many others do not), how do different levels of currency affect gameplay or increase strategic depth?

As for the stock market, I think Civ currently has no trace of it (other than a generic tax/luxury-boosting structure called "Stock Exchange"), but I am not sure if casual players would be able to handle a complex stock trading feature well.

 

[sir_schwick]

Just for starters, I really don't think inflation could be integrated in its actual form. The idea I am suggested just popped into my head, but I probably would not support it.

Here is how to integrate a very superficial idea of inflation into civ. Remember, it doesn't really reflect what inflation is, just what most people think it is. A couple tenets first:
1) All civs have their own currency, which will have a relative value vs. Gold, the standard.
2) Unlike reality, positive actions will make your currency more valuable, negative actions will make your currency less valuable.
3) It is assumed nations can print or coin excess money whenever they need once Currency is discovered.

Imagine the world currency market(just for example points) at 4000 BC is Zululand, Rome, English, Novogorod.
Gold
Shaka = 100 for 1g
Drachme = 100 for 1g
Pound = 100 for 1g
Potato = 100 for 1g

Now here is where players could bend money, to an extent.
King George does not have enough moeny to pay for all the improvements he built, so he prints money. It works easily on the local level, but decreases the value of the Pound vs. Gold, which in turn makes his money less valuable to other nations.
Gold
Shaka = 100 for 1g
Drachme = 100 for 1g
Pound = 110 for 1g
Potato = 100 for 1g
Remember, King George still generates the same amount of gold as before, so he still only makes the 5gpt revenue he did before printing the money. Now he wants to buy some tech from the Zulu. Shaka wants 300 shaka, or 3g, for the tech. Before printing the excess money, George would have to pay 300 Pounds, which equalled 3g at the time. Now he has to pay 330 Pounds.

Now you are saying, why would a player purposely cause inflation. They probably would not unless forced too. Here is another example"
Shaka's citizens are not very happy, but her purse is tight. If she reduces tax rates she cannot afford to keep her empire running, or can she. SHe decides to print money to keep up with the reduced tax rate.
Gold
Shaka = 110 for 1g
Drachme = 100 for 1g
Pound = 110 for 1g
Potato = 100 for 1g
Now Shaka and George will trade on even terms, but if they deal with the others, they will be at a disadvantage.

Here is the final place where this really matters in terms of penalties.
Novgorod loses a war, badly. As part of the peace settlement, Novgorod has to pay a huge fine. Of course no one can do it at once, so its a yearly fee. Now they cannot support themselves and pay the fines. They are forced to print money to make minimum payments.
Gold
Shaka = 110 for 1g
Drachme = 100 for 1g
Pound = 110 for 1g
Potato = 160 for 1g

These exchange rates would also effect trade and trade deficits.

I'm not sure how to make your currency more valuable, suggestions are welcome.

 

[croxis]

There should be no difference between any of the currencies between civs, except for the option to make up a name for it. Doing an exchange rate system would be valueless (pun intended). How would it make the game more fun? I don't want to spend my time in multiplayer doing calculations instead of building my nation. And if the game does such calculations automaticly... then what is the point?

 

[sir_schwick]

There should be no difference between any of the currencies between civs, except for the option to make up a name for it. Doing an exchange rate system would be valueless (pun intended). How would it make the game more fun? I don't want to spend my time in multiplayer doing calculations instead of building my nation. And if the game does such calculations automaticly... then what is the point?

1) The calculations would be done automatically.
2) The value of money can only be changed by your direct actions.
3) Under this trade system(for resources) http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=2071042&postcount=4, your cities will probably need to generate extra money.
4) It would allow you to get out of bad money situations, or pay the price for resources. It adds monetary flexibility.
5) YOu could see the current exchange rates and all transactions would be displayed in your currency.

 

[RageThere]

the use of gold could be viewed as simply an abstraction--put the fiscal activities of many nations and the world into one unit 'gold'

I would like to see some currency comparisons and fluctuations as technology developments, as a more detailed 'banking' and 'economimcs' development. As a world commerce leader your 'dollars' could buy more, have more of an influence with less wealthy civs, your economy becomes linked to and influences other civs

 

[Lieni]

That's the point croxis! You can build your empire too fast now, which is absolutely unrealistic. Inflation wouldn't allow too fast growings.

For me it sounds like some players are afraid of the inflation because it is difficult to handle. We should make a compromise and consider the inflation as a game option. Is it too much for the creators?

 

[sir_schwick]

the use of gold could be viewed as simply an abstraction--put the fiscal activities of many nations and the world into one unit 'gold'

I would like to see some currency comparisons and fluctuations as technology developments, as a more detailed 'banking' and 'economimcs' development. As a world commerce leader your 'dollars' could buy more, have more of an influence with less wealthy civs, your economy becomes linked to and influences other civs

Exactly, gold is just the common unit everyone compares their currency against. If trade was automatic and there was a lot, it is unlikely that Civ 3 cities coudl afford to trade at all. Inflation would allow cities to generate that money, and this means that major exporting civs will have a lot more valuable currency.

 

[ThinRedLine]

Either way the argument still stands; "gold" or "pounds and dollars" arnt the same thing.

In civ3 gold is used as an abstract term to describe the general wealth of the nation, it might just be me but I always thought that even the term "gold" was abstract in itself. Prehistoric man often didnt use gold as currency, some tropical islands used shells, or huge circular tablets of stone to represent the wealth a person had.

Even in medieval Europe when gold was used as the primary coinage material (some kings tried to add copper here and there to "water it down") the coins themselves were still given names (ie Florins).

And to say that it should be more than 500 gold per turn is just silly; when you build your first few cities you're usually juggling a few gold (increasing to 90% research only takes away three gold kinda thing). Somehow I think even the "poorest" early civilisations had to manage with more then 10 gold coins in the entire empire.

 

[The_Architect]

The amount in currency becomes astronimically high as the age advances - true, but so does the price of gold; so representing money by gold should be alright.

 

[stormbind]

I think inflation would be too strong an aspect for such a wide-reaching game. Maybe it bellongs in a game dedicated to building economic commercial empires.

 

[Trade-peror]

I think inflation would be too strong an aspect for such a wide-reaching game.

Yes, not to mention far too complicated if it will not be random or useless.

Maybe it bellongs in a game dedicated to building economic commercial empires.

Whoa, where can I buy one of those?!

 

[GenMarshall]

I perfer having the money system as gold. It makes it much easyer since you dont have to go through the hassle of converting from US Dollars to British Pounds, etc. Much like what SimCity did when they called their money simoleans starting at SimCity 3000.