Discussion in 'Civ4 - PitBoss Games' started by 2metraninja, May 16, 2014.
This is the new server IP:
Nevermind, was using wrong address
I had terrible OOS the entire time I played my turn, probably because sub was on at the same time. I do hope that doesn't mess anything up.
Hey I have paused because I think I have been double moved, can I ask for a ruling?
Did we agree that it was caledorn or severnspirits that decided these things?
Please pause the game while I get more details on this. I need to know who the person who is subbing as "Sub" is. Please send me a PM identifying yourself to me.
The game crashed (on my end) when I unpaused to play my turn. I don't think it impacted the game or the civstats page but I wanted to give a heads up just in case.
There's really no point in playing turns at the moment, as the game will probably be reloaded to a step before any double move happened, I'm afraid. I am waiting for Sub to pm me, as I have no idea who he is, and I need that side of the story too before making a final ruling.
Meanwhile it might be a good idea to put in safe place the saves from this turn from sub himself and from the beginning of the turn.
I think it is good idea to announce who is subbing you in this thread or in special one. I was in wonder if this "sub" was playing for several players
Hu? So you're saying sub isn't a real player?
About in which powers is to judge on this I think it is Caledorn of course, as Seven never accepted the proposal to be admin of this game, but rather wished us good luck with it and I think he is not following it at all.
"sub" is supposedly the player substituting HBHR since HBHR said in other game he is having RL troubles and less time for civ. So it might be good to ask HBHR who is his substitute, because it might well be the case that the sub player does not read this thread often. On the other hand, he must knows it and read it from time to time at least, as he knew the new IP of the server, which was changed just couple of days ago.
Normally "sub" is put as name to show it is not the original player, but someone who "sub"stitutes on his account for some time (vacation, busy time at work, technical problems with computer or internet, etc). On the other hand, it is not the same as "replacement" and subbing must be till some time, after this it is replacement and the player must reveal his identity.
Hi, first all, "sub" is my real life brother. He don´t like the forums so, he have not user in this (a little "autist" perhaps?)
Second, He said he don't DoW to anybody... yet so, why double move considerations start?
Three, is true, i'm having problems in my RL to play, too little time available to play, so i can´t invert hours to play, only minutes at maximum
Fouth: He don't change his name because i'm planning take this civ in a week or two, so, no need to change anything....
ReallyEvilMuffins, are we at war?
Edit: Hey, i take a look in the game, and Sumeria is not at war with nobody.... so, what is the problem????
True, there is no active declaration of war yet, but the stack was moved into my sentry units visibility after I had played, and it was obvious he was coming for me, so I reacted to it at the beginning of the next turn. From then on we should be playing a turn split.
As it now stands he has moved to claim the first half of the timer, this effectively getting the bonuses of both halves, the gain of a turn of surprise and production on moving second, AND the ability to move first and control promotions. Thus if he gains the first half now as I couldn't react until the turn later, and then I am forced to allow him to move before I can move troops into my cities. Basically this turn split is because if I could have logged on the turn after I played but before the next then I would have gained a turn of production into units as it were, as I would have seen the stack and edited builds accordingly.
Not to mention the other issue with the warrior on the road in neutral territory, who was obviously gonna raze it and now he has the ability to move troops past him without me being able to see what would have been in his visibility, which basically meant without a turn split whoever was able to log in first gained an advantage of either managing to raze the road or moving your cat over and past the warrior, which shouldn't be the case.
Double moves are not only related to war, but in this specific case it is, since a war declaration would appear to be imminent (also supported by the "...yet" statement you give, HBHR). Any movement of a unit that causes one player to gain an advantage over another player, by not giving the other player time to react to the first move, is a double move - even at peace time
An example of this is if two players are in a settling race for a nice city spot. Consider an example where both players have their settlers placed in such a manner that a city can be built by both of them in the specific spot this current turn. Player 2, however, moved his settler into the spot he's now standing after Player 1 moved in the previous turn (so the turn order was Player 1 -> Player 2). If Player 2 plays before Player 1 in the turn order in the current turn, and thus settles the city, he has effectively double moved Player 1.
When considering whether your move is a double move or not, always consider how the move would affect the other player(s), and whether the move performed would give you an advantage in a game that has simultaneous turns as opposed to a game with non-simultaneous turns. If you see that doing a move does indeed give you an advantage, because of the possibility to move units twice in a row in a simultaneous turn environment, then don't perform the move until after the other player(s) have been given the opportunity to react to the first move before doing the second.
As this is a first time situation, I don't think any penalty is needed. A reload to the start of the turn should be sufficient to resolve this. I am not doing a reload just yet though, as I will give any player who is interested in making comments time to do so first.
Just reload to the start of the turn.
Fine with reload. The turn order must be strictly followed during war and some turns prior to the war, peaceful abusing of double moves are a bit artificial though.
I don't agree. But if a reload, we need you reload before the turn over. All said, we can't finish the unit moves the last turn because travelling issues, so we need a reload since Sinimustra' last logged in in the turn before to 325 bc (330 bc?)
Edit: I'm going to declare the war to REM this turn (330 bc) any problem with that?
My opinion is that there is no such thing as "peace double-moves" simply because there is no such thing as "peace turn order". You cant observe turn order with everyone in a non-sequential turn games. And with more than 5-6 players sequential turns take so much time, it becomes impractical. For me, simple and working rule is "Dont move twice before your opponent have a turn to react on the turn of declaring a war and after this while in war"
I tend to agree with this opinion.
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