New to Civ and TBS

[sanjay_111]

Hi guys and gals,

I am an old hand at strategy games - last one finished was Rise of Nations.

Just downloaded CivIV demo thinking it is like RON but it turned out to be something quite different.

I can figure out it is a great game but having difficulty developing a taste for TBS game.

Would like to know if anyone went through the same process of playing TBS after RTS and how he / she developed a liking for Civ.

 

[King Flevance]

Welcome to the boards, sanjay.

I play both. I actually just logged off Rise of Nations. I never really developed a great taste for RTS myself. I liked warcraft, AOE (loved their campaigns on 2), and the like but RTS always seems to become very repetative very fast. The great thing about TBS is usually, the game pans out differently everytime.

Civ is really great at offering the player diverse planning strategies from the get-go compared to RTS and it has been that way since 1. Most TBS, although not all, usually offer this. I would also recommend Galactic Civilizations 2 if you get into TBS.

The main difference is the deeper focus on economical things. Research is usually set aside in a different area all to itself. Diplomatic Agreements can be made with the AI even outside of peace, war, and alliance options. Although not many games (including civ) have really tapped into this yet. But civ is heading down that road, I think. It already has defensive pacts and open border agreements involved.
TBS isn't as in-your-face as RTS strategy is but it is because the strategy is at a deeper level. Civ still hasn't (and may never) found a way to make the battles much more intense than they are already - which isn't very intense IMO. The war aspect is at a basic level at this point. It seemed they were trying to spice it up in 3, but then decided against it in 4 and blanded it back down.

I first got turned onto TBS from an old Sega game called Nobunaga's Ambition and some other game I don't remember the name of. All I remember was I spent a buttload of time training my troops on whatever that game was. Another one was Bandit Kings on NES that I only recently learned what the name of it was.
I then went into simulation with Sim City 1, and my 'video game guy' at my usual video game store recommended civ 1 for me. been playing it ever since and it actually got me into strategy titles again.

What you will really notice in TBS is the time invested. By being turn based you have however long you need to make your moves. Like an untimed chess game - although a bit more complex than chess. Not to mention most TBS like to make the game draw out more to give you a good amount of turns to work with.

If you are having a hard time getting involved in it, I would try using the fastest settings on the game to speed up the tempo. I play them online as that is the most common settings on there it seems and to me, it feels 1 notch off from a RTS at that point.

 

[sanjay_111]

Thanks for your reply King !

I am currently deciding which game to buy next - Warcraft III or Civ IV. Warcraft III will be a lot like Starcraft and we (my son and myself) have been Starcraft fanatics.

I wish I could play more than 100 turns on the demo of Civ IV I downloaded. What is the maximum number of turns in the game btw.

 

[jeremiahrounds]

If you buy it I recommend attempting the GOTM (game of the month) and HOF (hall of fame) challenges at the bottom of the forum. Game of the month seems to get more action nowadays. That way it is more of a club experience.

 

[King Flevance]

I haven't played warcraft 3 yet, and only seen it played a couple of times. From the sounds of it though 3 brought in a some new ideas. I don't know the specifics. But I would check out a warcraft forum if you already haven't. They would know.

The most amount of turns you can get out of a game is 1200 on marathon speed. (Longest speed) I forget the actual numbers, another current thread is why I know of marathons. It is what I usually play when I play civ as the wars are alot more fun then. The least amount I believe is around 800 I think on fastest. But I could be wrong on that number.

 

[kristopherb]

civ4 its good game .im playing RTw but im crap and detiminded to finish the game.

 

[sanjay_111]

I am veering round to Civ IV. WCIII is too much like Starcraft. Be back here for advice on getting more fun out of it.

 

[Stumpy123]

First off, welcome to the forums . Glad to see you're interested in Civ 4.

I won't lie to you; TBS and RTS are very different creatures. RTS are very quick, brutal, and tactical, while TBS is much more deliberate and strategic. Going from RTS and TBS will require some adjustment and some patience. You have to let yourself learn the ropes of the game first, and let it suck you in with its incredible addictiveness . Believe me, you won't be disappointed.

Games will take longer, and they require a great deal more planning. In RTS, you often can get away with special build orders and following a plan for the given map. In TBS, every map and situation is different, and will require a different strategy. There are guidelines and help, but you must adapt to each situation, and plan long term for victory.

Anyhow, if you're up for something different, Civ 4 won't disappoint you. It's as varied and endlessly replayable as Starcraft's multiplayer.

 

[sanjay_111]

One thing I want to ask u guys (and I am a COMPLETE NEWBIE so don't laugh at the question !):

When I am building two cities, sometimes the city requires much less number of turns to build everything. I have also noticed that one city would require more number of turns and another less.

How does it happen ? Since I am playing a demo, I do not have a manual. Is there someplace I can download a manual ?

Thanks in advance.

 

[King Flevance]

In the following screenshot, is a city's city screen. (Get familiar with this as much as you can.) Feel free to ask about anything in the screens. I don't think there is an online manual. But I will give you a run through of the idea behind city managing. I got time.

Screenshot 1:

Spoiler :

OK, we are going to look at Fort Hillbrook here. If you hover the cursor over the city bar on the main map, you will get a overview of it on the bottom left of the screen. You can see that it says Fort Hillbrook is making 7 food, 7 hammers, 1 gold, and 4 beakers. It makes this amount every turn until something changes.

Notice that the city already has 45/84 food. It will grow in population when you have gained 84 food. Since it makes 7 per turn, it will take 6 turns to get to 86 which breaks the 84 cap, and the population will go up at that point.

The same for a swordsman that it is making. The swordsman costs 80 hammers to make. The city currently produces 7 hammers per turn. It has ran for a couple turns now and currently has 33 hammers. SO in 7 turns it will have made 82 hammers total, which is enough to make the 80 hammers needed for the swordsman.

Now if you double click the city bar, it will take you into the city screen. TO see how all of this is going on.

Screenshot 2:

Spoiler :

OK first things first. You automatically 'work' your city tile itself and cannot stop working it. Then with each population, you can work 1 additional tile. This is a size 4 city currently. So it can work 4 tiles.

Up at the top, you will see that the city is actually making 15 food per turn. Not just 7. That is because each population point you have in your city eats 2 food per turn. 4 population eats 8 food total. 15 - 8 = 7 food per turn.

Each tile will produce:
Food :: Bread loaf = 5 bread pieces. (Applies to population)
Hammers :: Anvil = 5 hammers. (Applies to production)
Coins :: Moneybag = 5 coins. (Applies to commerce)

It is up to you what tiles to work. Or you can automate them. Say for instance I wanted to speed up this swordsman. I could click on one of the bread loaves to have them stop working it and instead have them work a forested plains tile for another 1 food and 2 hammers instead.
My hammer production per turn would raise to 9 per turn. food would change to 11 - 8 = 3 per turn.
So the population growth would happen in 13 turns but my swordsman would be complete in 6 turns. So, that would only speed up the swordsman by 1 turn. So now I move the forested grassland tile to another forested plains for another hammer per turn. That aditional hammer makes it only take 5 turns to complete the sword but my population growth has slowed down to 20 turns.

Hope that helps out some. I got alot of spare time today.

 

[vorlon_mi]

One thing I want to ask u guys (and I am a COMPLETE NEWBIE so don't laugh at the question !):

When I am building two cities, sometimes the city requires much less number of turns to build everything. I have also noticed that one city would require more number of turns and another less.

How does it happen ? Since I am playing a demo, I do not have a manual. Is there someplace I can download a manual ?

Thanks in advance.

Each city is different. It will have different terrain in the tiles surrounding it,
and the differences in the terrain will make the city more or less productive
compared with its neighboring cities. A military unit (say, an axeman)
will always require the same number of hammers to build -- hammers are
the "currency" or "measurement" of production. But city A might produce
10 hammers / turn, while city B produces 20 hammers per turn, so the
number of turns required to produce a thing will be different.

 

[sanjay_111]

Thanks a ton guys ! I intend taking a print of these messages and use them to play my heart out at the demo and develop a taste for this game.

I did try to search for online manuals but did not find any and now I know why.

If you have (more) time, give me more tips. Can use any number !

 

[Arvedui]

Yes, standard Marathon games take 1200 turns. I think Normal speed games take 400, considering that Marathon is +50% of Epic (800 turns) which is double than normal... A quick game must run around 340, I guess.

As King Flevance said, it is probably better for you to play at quick speed, to make the transition from RTS. Not only will there be less turns overall, but everything will happen faster (population and culture growth, build times). I like to play Marathon, it is very fun once you get used to the scale and if you have the time or patience to invest in it; but these Marathon games can take literally dozens of hours, depending on how fast or slow it takes you to achieve victory (or lose).

By the way, I don't know if the demo has the Marathon speed, since this was added in a patch. If not, epic will be the longest.

 

[sanjay_111]

You still there guys ?

Just wanted to tell you that I bought CivIV yesterday. Very enjoyable game.

Hope to play deity level sometime soon.

Leave tips if you can.

Thanks

 

[King Flevance]

Still here. Congrats on the game btw. The recent expansion announcement has alot of good oppurtunities of adding alot more to the game. I am awaiting (and not alone) a new announcement that further explains some of the new features being brought in.

One additional tip I can think of is happiness/health. Never let your unhappy faces in the city menu (next to your production bar) exceed your happy faces. Each time your city grows in population, you gain +1 face. SO in Screenshot 2 above, I don't want the city to grow past 7 faces.

It works the same way with sick faces and but early on health is usually not a problem if you connect up the right resources. Early on resources are hard to come by. (Tech Calender usually unlocks these by the ability to make plantations.)

The penalties are 1 extra mad face = 1 citizen that will refuse to work. (i.e. 8 population city that can only work 7 tiles max)
1 extra sick face = -1 production. (Not so bad.)

There are some good links people usually post to beginners but I don't know them off hand. One is a tutorial or something... or a walkthrough of some kind.

 

[Lars_Domus]

There are some good links people usually post to beginners but I don't know them off hand. One is a tutorial or something... or a walkthrough of some kind.

I'm on it
There's Sulla's walkthrough, of course, and then there's my personal favorite Sisiutil's guide for beginners. That last one comes as a handy PDF-format download.

Besides those, there's tons of good reading over in the strategy forum. If you can't find what your looking for, people are mostly more than happy to answer your questions.

 

[Benvolio]

I would second reading through Sulla's Walkthrough and Sisutil's Guide, which were very helpful to me.

I had the same experience you did when I went from RTS (AoE) to TBS (Civ II). CivII seemed complicated and graphically unimpressive. However, once I realized the depth and strategy potential (and endless replayability) of Civ II, I never looked back. I've played Civ III and Civ IV and enjoyed all of them.

Deity Level?!!!

Benvolio

 

[Good Omens]

Though I appreciate your enthusiasm, Sanjay, I gotta tell you...don't even think about Deity level for a long time. Civ4 kills newbies dead. I'm a fairly experienced TBS player and I can only hang at Prince level, maybe Monarch. Any higher than that and I might as well not even be at the computer.

A few things to keep in mind:
1. Never trust Montezuma, Catherine or Khan. Never.
2. The most important single aspect of the game (at least, in my opinion) is economy. If you are making enough money, anything's possible. If the gold isn't coming in, you're sunk.
3. If you ask 5 players for advice, you'll get 5 different answers. There is no best anything in this game.
4. Welcome to the addiction.

 

[Julian Delphiki]

Just wanted to tell you that I bought CivIV yesterday. Very enjoyable game.

Hope to play deity level sometime soon.

Congrats for a good choice. It's also good to have goals in life .

 

[Ammar]

Just, another point : WC 3 ist much different too Starcraft. You have far lesser units and the heroes play a very large role. In fact, that's why I don't like WC3 and still play Starcraft. Just saying that they play out differently.