New to the CBP : need general advice on strategies

[Magean]

Hi everyone !

First, I'd like to thank modders for their dedication in improving the game. Keep up the great work !

So, I've more than 500 hours played on Vanilla, of which I got tired. But, the Community Patch Project really renewed my interest to Civ V.

However, with so many alterations, I'd like to know what are the general strategies that survived, those that worked on Vanilla but not int the Community Balance Patch, and the new ones.

Leaving aside strategies that arise from Civ IV Diplomatic features and the City-States diplomacy mod, and focusing on the CBP, what's your general advice ?

In Vanilla, I play on Immortal. I usually win by sticking to conventional tall strategies : start with tradition, catch up on science, play defensively for the first part of the game, and then overcome the AI later on. I have often tried more experimental builds (Autocratic cultural victory is my favorite), but with less success.

As an example of things I'm asking, I'd like to know if getting your National College up ASAP is still the go-to strategies. Another thing : is a wide start more viable now ?

I'm open to any additional advice

Thanks in advance

 

[Moi Magnus]

Hi and welcome !

The main change is that there is less no-brainer than in vanilla, and that culture is far more important than in vanilla.
Wide strategy is viable if you take progress or autority (but not really with tradition).

There is a strategy subforum : http://forums.civfanatics.com/forumdisplay.php?f=537

And also another post we already discussed of that kind of things :
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=567556

 

[tu_79]

Yes, a little deja-vu.

Only to add a little thing. Current stable version is a little old, it works well but the last betas have changed a big deal.
Maybe this also helps: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=566503

 

[Magean]

Thanks for your answers. The links you posted helped.

A little question : is tourism useful if you're not going for a culture victory ? And even if you're aiming at a culture victory, is it useful to build up tourism from the mid-game ? In Vanilla, you can just capture great works in the late-game and rely on the enormous late bonuses that completely overcome what you can get earlier.

Now, an unrelated issue. I started a game on the Communitas map and got a CTD on turn 3 while AI player 2 was playing. I had all the mods from the automatic installer (EUI version) enabled, + RED Units. Yet, the later is supposed to be compatible. Also, when browsing the interface, I saw some unique buildings had no description. Is it just a lack of text description, or are the buildings (and my installation) corrupted ?

 

[Moi Magnus]

Thanks for your answers. The links you posted helped.

A little question : is tourism useful if you're not going for a culture victory ? And even if you're aiming at a culture victory, is it useful to build up tourism from the mid-game ? In Vanilla, you can just capture great works in the late-game and rely on the enormous late bonuses that completely overcome what you can get earlier.

Now, an unrelated issue. I started a game on the Communitas map and got a CTD on turn 3 while AI player 2 was playing. I had all the mods from the automatic installer (EUI version) enabled, + RED Units. Yet, the later is supposed to be compatible. Also, when browsing the interface, I saw some unique buildings had no description. Is it just a lack of text description, or are the buildings (and my installation) corrupted ?

Communitas map sometimes have CTD, and nobody understand why. (And some peoples manage to play on communitas without having any problems)

If you're playing in English, Unique buildings should alwas have the list of its effects as a descriptions.

 

[vyyt]

Communitas map sometimes have CTD, and nobody understand why. (And some peoples manage to play on communitas without having any problems)

If you're playing in English, Unique buildings should alwas have the list of its effects as a descriptions.

Yep, also do not play with the Communitas from the Steam workshop, use the one bundled with Vox Populi. If you do play in English and some texts are still missing, it would appear to me that you are missing some DLCs or your install is somehow broken. You did not have such problems with the previous versions??

 

[tu_79]

Or just try other maps. I'm currently liking Perfect Planet (or was it Planet Simulator?), good mountain chains. There's a post here somewhere with links.

 

[Magean]

It's very nice to get replies that quickly ! OK, so the Communitas script is unstable (I have the Communitas from Steam installed, but it's not the one I use). That's too bad, these maps are quite good-looking. I'll be checking the map you referenced, tu_79.

Regarding the description issues, I've created a separate thread, it seems more appropriate.

 

[Funak]

It's very nice to get replies that quickly ! OK, so the Communitas script is unstable (I have the Communitas from Steam installed, but it's not the one I use). That's too bad, these maps are quite good-looking. I'll be checking the map you referenced, tu_79.

The one that's bunlded with vox populi works fine. I would however not recommend using it as communitas map script tend to create way too big maps with way too many resources. This tend to lead to more boring games with less action, it also tends to lead to some AI getting isolated and basically screwing themselves over with mass expansion and mass unit-spam.
If you necessarily want to play it, try adding a few more AI to soak up more space.

 

[Magean]

The one that's bunlded with vox populi works fine. I would however not recommend using it as communitas map script tend to create way too big maps with way too many resources. This tend to lead to more boring games with less action, it also tends to lead to some AI getting isolated and basically screwing themselves over with mass expansion and mass unit-spam.
If you necessarily want to play it, try adding a few more AI to soak up more space.

Even on Vanilla map, I usually add a couple AIs, otherwise it's boring. I'll go with 12 Civs and 24 CS on a standard map, that should be enough.

I will give Communitas another chance. As I said in my other topic on the missing text, something was corrupted in my installation not of the mod, but of Civ V. So, maybe the crash is the consequence of that rather than a flaw in the map itself.

EDIT : on a Terra-like setting, that is to say, all civs starting on the same continent, with an empty New World awaiting colonization after Astronomy is discovered, will the AI colonize the New World ? On Vanilla, they don't. AIs take the crappiest piece of tundra on their home continent, but utterly neglect long-distance colonization.

 

[wobuffet]

If you necessarily want to play it, try adding a few more AI to soak up more space.

Turning the Sea Level to High might help too.

In case you don't know, Communitas (by default) makes sure there are two rifts of deep Ocean tiles partitioning the world into two distinct regions until Astronomy. I think it makes for a fun dynamic (there are obvious implications for Religion spreading, Tourism, the World Congress, etc.).

 

[Funak]

Even on Vanilla map, I usually add a couple AIs, otherwise it's boring. I'll go with 12 Civs and 24 CS on a standard map, that should be enough.

I will give Communitas another chance. As I said in my other topic on the missing text, something was corrupted in my installation not of the mod, but of Civ V. So, maybe the crash is the consequence of that rather than a flaw in the map itself.

EDIT : on a Terra-like setting, that is to say, all civs starting on the same continent, with an empty New World awaiting colonization after Astronomy is discovered, will the AI colonize the New World ? On Vanilla, they don't. AIs take the crappiest piece of tundra on their home continent, but utterly neglect long-distance colonization.

Again, make sure you delete the old communitas map (or just unsubscribe from it) so you don't accidentally pick that one.

I usually run smaller maps instead of adding more civs (like Oval), adding more civs makes getting a religion slightly harder than it should be (as the maximum number of religions doesn't increase when the number of players does)

 

[Kenpari]

I got a CTD the first time I ever tried generating a Communitas map. I launched the game back up and tried again, and it worked fine. It also worked fine the 2-3 times after that I used it, as well. I'd say just try again a few times if you really want to use it... because imo it's probably the best map generator.

 

[Magean]

So, I've been able to play 100 turns on a Communitas map, no crash, no trouble. But, CPB feels like learning a new game

 

[Funak]

But, CPB feels like learning a new game

Absolutely.

 

[Magean]

After generating a sample of Planet Simulator and Communitas with various parameters in the World Builder, I must say I prefer Communitas. Planet Simulator has a tendency to create ugly monolithic landmasses à la Vanilla Continents, even when islands are set on "large and varied". It doesn't happen always, but it happens.

Communitas, on the other hand, always generated intricate features, more realistic and more interesting at the same time.

 

[Magean]

Now, back to strategic advice. Before delving into more in-depth strategies, I'd like to know if there's a general approach to snowballing that everyone follows. From what I've seen of the early game, most bonuses are fixed per building, making it harder to snowball through population.

 

[tu_79]

Focus on culture, heavy and early, or forget about wonders. Get a religion (for most civs, this is a must), or ensure a good faith production and steal someone else's religion. It's easier to settle more cities, but watch out, expansive behaviour leads to war sooner than later (if you want to play peacefully, keep yourself within 4-5 cities), and try to settle the farest spots first (so AI doesn't think you're expanding towards it).
Don't disregard any aspect of the game, you need strong armies, strong culture, strong science, strong faith, some presence in the World Congress, some friends...
Armies need to be diversed (no more cavalry + artillery conquering everything), and promotions chosen wisely (higher promotions have counterbalancing effects).

For me, the most stunning feature coming from BNW was diplomat units (with civilian slots, diplomats upgrades, embassies and Great Diplomats), followed by Corporations and Monopolies (you get monopoly on a resource, you get bonus for those resources and you might be able to build gold drowning corporations and foreign offices) and new happiness system (based on pop needs per city), but there are tons of surprises, like the mentioned promotions, the fact that untouched big forests may be yielding more than anything else, that adjacent farms improve themselves, that villages and town yield more if there's a trade route using the tile, that rushing a building with money only halves it's hammer demand, that the requirement for National Wonders is pop size, the requirement for Wonders is usually a number of Social Policies, Religion causes unrest, AI is much more aggressive and handles well in battle, garrisoned units aren't safe, cities are weaker, there are skirmishers (fast short ranged mounted units) and upgradable units every Age.

Oh man! Guess I need to make a guide with all changes.

 

[Magean]

Thanks ! About religion, if I get it correctly, it is necessary to get one in order to avoid unrest ? I still have the BNW mentality that it's better not to invest in faith rather than getting a crappy late religion.

Regarding science, what's the course to stay ahead ?

 

[tu_79]

Thanks ! About religion, if I get it correctly, it is necessary to get one in order to avoid unrest ? I still have the BNW mentality that it's better not to invest in faith rather than getting a crappy late religion.

Regarding science, what's the course to stay ahead ?

No, you will get unrest once your cities become religious, be it your religion or others. To avoid this unrest, build religious buildings and/or spend missionaries to convert every citizen to the same religion. They just don't like being unfaithful people living in the city.

As for science, evangelism (religious tenet) is quite good if you want to focus in science. Early on you will research thanks to your social policies, later on you will need to fill science slots with specialists, and in time, pop size will come into account. Academies are good, they improve over the ages. Great Scientists born with fixed science, so you better spend them (bulb or academy) as soon as they born. Whales monopoly is good too. Forests are as good as jungles once you get universities. Late game you could be faith purchasing Great Scientists.

But it's not so bad to be 3rd or 4th in science. You get some free beakers thanks to trading, and techs are cheaper, you can even buy some techs (CIV4 diplomacy enabled). Being ahead in science doesn't ensure any wonder, so no need to be too far ahead if you're not pushing for science victory.