new unit: armored shock infantry

Originally posted by Vdog
With all these modern infantry soldiers that balou is making it would be nice to make the game more like real warfare and not be so dependent on tanks. Meaning that there would be more infantry on infantry combat. I tryed raising the shield cost for the tanks in my last game in hope that the AI would build the cheaper infantry units but that was not the case, is there a way that we can make this possible????

In my mod the infantry moves 2, armor 3 to 4. The armor costs are increased (modern armor 20). Marines. Paratroopers and Moderm Infantry have decent attack. The AI will build and use large numbers of attack flagged infantry units.

Oh yeah. I did some reading and the rifle component of the M-29 OICW is a modified version of the G-36 as both are made by H&K.
 
There are so many units we could do. I don´t think a land warrior unit would be too useful because there is just too little difference. The five units we set out to do can be used as civ or terrain specific units so there is more use to them. The german soldier will have a G36 which looks quite futuristic, so you could use that one as a land warrior.

I don´t think there will be new unit abilites in ptw because they would also need to adjust the AI then, and they said the AI remains pretty much the same.

That said, there is not much sense in doing specialised units because they could only differ in the attack or defense value :(
The combat in civ3 is really dissapointing.
I only do these units for the art´s sake. The last time I played civ3 was the gotm (and gotm uses standard rules anyway).
That´s why I may retire after I finished those five units (if there are no relevant changes in ptw), or only make (future) infantry units on request once in a while.
 
Awww, don't go! I love your units, maybe you can make early infantry as opposed to future ones or maybe you could start making mounted units. And don't worry PTW will probably have a couple of tricks up it's sleave
 
The chat log for PTW from a couple of weeks ago mentioned a few more new unit abilities, such as the ability to make specific types of units require no maintenance, and the ability for units to pay only one movement point when moving through certain types of terrains (i.e. pay only 1 MP to move through mountains, instead of 3 MP). These are just two examples I can remember, but there may be other new unit abilities in PTW as well.
 
Originally posted by Balou

I don´t think there will be new unit abilites in ptw because they would also need to adjust the AI then, and they said the AI remains pretty much the same.

That said, there is not much sense in doing specialised units because they could only differ in the attack or defense value :(
The combat in civ3 is really dissapointing.
I only do these units for the art´s sake. The last time I played civ3 was the gotm (and gotm uses standard rules anyway).
That´s why I may retire after I finished those five units (if there are no relevant changes in ptw), or only make (future) infantry units on request once in a while.

Just remember also that with MP, human players will thinking up all kinds of tactics for using units.

I do have a request, and I think you're one of a handful who could pull it off. It would be kind of difficult but I know you could do it. The unit request is...sniper in a ghillie suit.

Here are some pics from the US Marine Corps site. They're from an article about scout/snipers.
 

Attachments

  • sniper1_low.jpg
    sniper1_low.jpg
    28.1 KB · Views: 397
So what does a sniper do in civ3?
Should we give him the bombard ability? I don´t think so.
We could give him a good attack value and poor defense but then why not build another unit that is good in both defense and offense? (I assume that the AI can´t handle land units with stealth and no nationality) And a sniper with a good attack value could also destroy tanks... :rolleyes:
I don´t think a sniper is a good idea. (maybe in ptw, though)
 
One could make a sniper and make him invisible (only to special defense units of course)

Snipers shoul have a bombard value and a moderate attack/defense- they act in small numbers and shoul only be able to damage enemy units without being easily detected...
 
Originally posted by Balou
So what does a sniper do in civ3?
Should we give him the bombard ability? I don´t think so.
We could give him a good attack value and poor defense but then why not build another unit that is good in both defense and offense? (I assume that the AI can´t handle land units with stealth and no nationality) And a sniper with a good attack value could also destroy tanks... :rolleyes:
I don´t think a sniper is a good idea. (maybe in ptw, though)

Actually, this is one of the few mods that the AI handles quite well. They stack them with a regular unit so that you can't attack them and use them to pillage, steal workers and attack weaker units. I've not had success with the AI using hidden nationality artillery units yet but I haven't tried it with the 1.29 patch (where the AI supposedly uses artillery more effectively for offensive purposes). The sniper would be a hidden nationality artillery unit. Used to weaken and damage enemy units. I already have these kind of units in my game, just thought that matching animation would be cool.

Also, when we see how regicide option works in PTW then maybe there's another good use there.

W.i.n.t.e.r, if it were a bush with feet even I could make it! :lol:

The reason I think it would be difficult to make is because the attack animation would have the guy laying on his belly. So, fortify would be him crouching from standing to prone then attack would be him firing.
 
Originally posted by dog


Actually, this is one of the few mods that the AI handles quite well. They stack them with a regular unit so that you can't attack them and use them to pillage, steal workers and attack weaker units.

dog,

Which mod are you referring; hidden nationality, invisible, or both? :confused: I want to add partisan/guerilla units, but I'm unsure if the AI will be able to use them.
 
Originally posted by Nemesis Rex


dog,

Which mod are you referring; hidden nationality, invisible, or both? :confused: I want to add partisan/guerilla units, but I'm unsure if the AI will be able to use them.

I do both. But...I will tell you that if you check both, the AI will see your partisan unit just fine, it's as if the hidden nationality cancels out the invisible. Whether they see each other's partisans or only the human player's I'm not sure.

I'm also not sure if the human can see AI units with both flags checked. I have so many units that can see invisible (I'm such a cheater :o ) that I really can't say. I'll have to pay more attention to that.

Also regarding the sniper unit. If you make a hidden nat artillery unit, the human players in PTW MP will be able to use it just fine.
 
I think a sniper would be effectively the same as a spec-ops or guerilla unit, for game purposes.

Only the art would be fundamentaly different.
 
One effective way to reduce the ability of the tank is to make it suseptable to counter attack. Reduce its defense rating, increase its cost and place infantry on the map that have a fairly balanced attack and defense with both offense and defense AI flags checked. Also, to decrease the AI's reliance on tanks make infantry invisable and able to detect invisable units. This has effects on infantry able to detect subs near land masses, but subs are made for deep seas anyways arn't they? This way infantry units can substitute an effective surprise strike force on mechanized units, and can only be seen by other infantry units. The AI will build them because for some reason they love invisable units (don't ask me why). This is a good temporary fix until PTW comes out, but somewhat unrealistic as large infantry formations are pretty easy to detect. However if it was a scenario with a more complex combat system (i.e. a veriety of infantry units representing smaller formations) then it would be fairly realistic. Of course this makes special forces units obsolete since every infantry unit is invisable. Of course as a balancer infantry can only move one square at a time and if you want to get them quickly to the battlefield you'll have to load them into ground transports which arn't invisable and suseptable to attack.

Another counter to armor is artillery. Increasing the range of artillery and lethality can turn the course of war if they are strategically placed. A bombard rating as effective as the modern armor attack would, I beleive, influence the AI to build more artillery and further reduce the numbers of armor in game. The same could be said of rockets, missiles, and cruise missiles.

Its actually pretty simple controlling the AI. All you have to do is make it so that no one unit seems to tower over the rest, and providing unique abilities in a specific unit that can't be substituted in another. The hard part is making all the units unique or equal without compromising gameplay. However if a unit can't defend itself then the AI won't send it out alone, and stressing combined arms tactics is very realistic. The one major disappointment however is the lack of multi class AI strategies. If I want to make a land mobile anti aircraft vehicle, I can't check the air defense flag in the AI area because its a land vehicle. But thats a different chapter.
 
Balou,

Giving Spetsnaz M-16 like weapons is quite acceptible since they would have employed a variety of weapons from Western Europe. Spetsnaz had two roles:
1. Location and destruction of tactical nuclear weapons behind enemy lines
2. Infiltration communications and command facilties.

The Soviets had safe houses and caches of weapons and supplies setup by "friendly civilians" in all European countries, and they would have used whatever weapons would have been available to the civilian agents.

Now, the spetsnaz are used more like western swat teams to take out terrorists/guerilla fighters in Chechnya or Moscva... these days I think they prefer to use German weapons like H&K MP5's, etc...

And given how much detail we can see from inside the game, they will look dead cool as they gun down another unit.


D.
 
gen.dragolen:
You may be right there but I will keep the unit the way it is now (with An-94). I think the AN-94 fits very well with the spetznaz unit and I don´t think they won´t make use of such an advanced rifle when they have it available. (I saw some reports of the special ops team after the incident in the russian theater [or was it an opera, I don´t know] and they were carrying the AN-94 there)

I won´t make a sniper unit. Maybe some of the modern infantry types can be used for this purpose.

The terrain movement thing added in ptw make the units a bit more interesting but the new features are overall dissapointing (to me).

The animations for the spetznaz unit are almost complete. I´ll just need to finish the victory and drop animation. We will need new sounds and descriptions for that one too. I will post a preview soon (in a week or so). I had some problem with the muzzle flash in the different directions (in FLICster it looks great but not so good in the game).
(Does anyone know how to do white and transparent smoke? I use the second last row for the muzzle flash but in the game it turns out more grey than white)
 
Balou, I have a request for an infantry unit.

Would you be interested in animating a 19th Century German Rifleman?

Please let me know, I have some pics I can post.
Thanks :)
joespaniel
 
Back
Top Bottom