Newbie Questions - Ask here and get Answers!

[jbmagic]

hi

i research the great library, and got it.....but later in game i research education and it says my great library is cancel? how did that happen? i dont understand.



also when i am playing the game with three AI enemies that i am at peace with i would start getting some research techs that i didnt pick to research...how did that happen..i am not talking about the research tech u get with the civilitazion u pick?


thanks

 

[MadScot]

JBMagic

The Great Library is made obsolete by Education by design. That's the very last tech it will give you free - after that it just gives culture, but no special effects.

I'm not sure if the second question is related to the first. When the GL is 'active' you get any tech that two of your contacts know, without doing anything else.

The only other case for unplanned free techs is when a scientific civ enters a new era - you get one of the starting techs in the new era.

(late in the game, Theory of Evolution gives 2 free techs, but those are picked by you, so not like you describe)

 

[ivory]

JB, what you describe is *exactly* the working of the Great Library. Check the Civilopedia, which sais:

The civilization that builds the Great Library gets any Civilization Advance already discovered by two other known civilizations for free.
Made obsolete by: Education.

(From this I understand you don't even need to be at peace with them to get their techs.) So owning the Great Library, you want to make sure you get to know as many civ's as possible before you get to Education.
All ancient Wonders become obsolete at some point by the discovery of a tech. The only exception is the Pyramids. So when you own a Wonder which is made obsolete by tech X, you may want to postpone researching tech X and research Y first.
When you built it (it is something you build, not something you research), what else did you expect to happen?

 

[WillJ]

I have two questions:

1. How is the cost of a unit upgrade determined? Is it # of gold required=# of shields in the difference between the unit's shield cost and it "upgradee"'s shield cost (0 when the unit costs more than the upgradee) (divided by two when you have Leo's workshop)?

2. How is the number of resistors quenched (or whatever the word is) on any given turn determined? For example, is it one combat unit takes three turns to quench one resistor (with a grouping effect, like worker tasks)?

 

[pdescobar]

@willJ: Close on question #1. It is ( (NewUnitCost-OldUnitCost)*2 ) without Leo's and (NewUnitCost-OldUnitCost) with it. (You were off by a factor of 2) You are also correct that an upgrade is free if the new unit is the same or cheaper than the old. I'll pass on question #2

 

[WillJ]

Originally posted by pdescobar
@willJ: Close on question #1. It is ( (NewUnitCost-OldUnitCost)*2 ) without Leo's and (NewUnitCost-OldUnitCost) with it. (You were off by a factor of 2) You are also correct that an upgrade is free if the new unit is the same or cheaper than the old. I'll pass on question #2

Okay, thanks.

If no one seems to know #2, I'll probably do some testing.

 

[ivory]

Resistance is very culture dependent, so I *assume* that quelling resistance (that 's the word they use, but I like quenching too) is as well. If your enemy has more culture than you, there will be more resistors. If he is culturally poor, there won't be as many. One might think that the resistors will be more likely to calm down under a military with lots of culture, so you don't need as many soldiers for the job. But I 'm just quessing here.. There might be other factors, like distance to capital, founding date of the city, progress of the war, who knows..
I am sure that the strength of the military is not a factor, a conscript warrior is as good as an elite tank.
I generally try to park two units in the town for every resistor, and generally find things are back to normal within two or three turns. But I usually have more culture than the opponent.
In short, some testing would be greatly appreciated.
BTW like your new sig

 

[WillJ]

Originally posted by ivory
Resistance is very culture dependent, so I *assume* that quelling resistance (that 's the word they use, but I like quenching too) is as well. If your enemy has more culture than you, there will be more resistors. If he is culturally poor, there won't be as many. One might think that the resistors will be more likely to calm down under a military with lots of culture, so you don't need as many soldiers for the job. But I 'm just quessing here.. There might be other factors, like distance to capital, founding date of the city, progress of the war, who knows..
I am sure that the strength of the military is not a factor, a conscript warrior is as good as an elite tank.
I generally try to park two units in the town for every resistor, and generally find things are back to normal within two or three turns. But I usually have more culture than the opponent.
In short, some testing would be greatly appreciated.
BTW like your new sig

Yeah, I was also thinking it might have to do with culture. I'll probably do some testing later today.

 

[anarres]

I would not discount the troops strength without testing, I see no reason for it not to be a pssible factor.

Also, local culture could have an effect, as well as distance ratio, overall culture ratio, number of troops, age of city, number of current pop/resistors.

A lot of possible factors, but you must be aware of them all if you intend to effetively test this.

 

[WillJ]

Originally posted by anarres
A lot of possible factors, but you must be aware of them all if you intend to effetively test this.

I think I'll try testing these factors:

# of troops
strength of troops (by noting them)
# of resistors
basic comparison between the two civs' culture
founding date of city
appoximate distance to capital of original civ
approximate distance to capital of conqueror

I don't know how I could test the culture of the city that's captured (since some buildings are destroyed). Or do buildings w/ culture always survive? Even if they do, all the culture already accumulated is lost, so... Would the debug mode help me with this?

I guess I'll try seeing if it's a simple troop-to-resistor ratio. If not, I'll start looking at the other factors.

 

[mabellino]

Funny situation..?
I made a deal with the Celts recently for a tech and I paid them a lux, gold and gpt. Next turn they were destroyed by the English and suddenly all the AI were annoyed with me and will no longer accept gpt from me... (unless it is a gift!) Same applies to lux. They have no problems trading if I give them gold up front.
My question is why would I take a rep hit when it wasn't me that broke the deal? If this is a common occurence then I'm going to stop trading with really weak civs!

 

[WillJ]

Originally posted by mabellino
Funny situation..?
I made a deal with the Celts recently for a tech and I paid them a lux, gold and gpt. Next turn they were destroyed by the English and suddenly all the AI were annoyed with me and will no longer accept gpt from me... (unless it is a gift!) Same applies to lux. They have no problems trading if I give them gold up front.
My question is why would I take a rep hit when it wasn't me that broke the deal? If this is a common occurence then I'm going to stop trading with really weak civs!

You've just described one of the major annoyances of Civ3: You get a rep hit when a deal is broken, even if it's not your fault. Along with your scenario, it also might happen if, say, you're trading gpt for wines, and the road on the wines, or the road connecting you two civs, is pillaged (even if by someone else). You'll just have to live with it.

 

[mabellino]

Thanks WillJ... I thought I'd be able to get a tech for free by trading with an "about to be destroyed" civ for gpt... looks like I just messed up any chance of a diplo win on GOTM20!
oh well c'est la vie!

 

[xxaaaxx]

Just got PTW, used copy, w/ no instructions.
What does the 'sentry' command do? Is it different from fortify? How does a unit behave if you click 'explore'?
What does 'set rally point' mean?

 

[pdescobar]

'Sentry' will wake up automatically when a unit draws near. One version (Y) will wake for any unit; another (Shift-Y) will wake only for enemies.

A unit on 'Explore' will go around uncovering black areas of the map and popping goody huts.

If you choose 'Set Rally Point' for a city, and click on a tile, then any units built by that city will be set on an immediate GOTO to that tile. It will clear itself if you build a non-unit and you can clear it manually by choosing "Clear Rally Point"

 

[WillJ]

Okay, resistance testing has begun. It'll probably take a pretty long time (and I'm quiting for the night). Hopefully I'll be done by this time tomorrow, and have figured out how it works. Of course, if anyone already knows how it works, now's a good time to tell me.

 

[tomart109]

Originally posted by anarres
tomart109,

The Mobilisation exploit is a really bad bug. What possible reason could you have for wanting to know it?

I guess the word "boredom" creeps in here (sacrelige!!!)....
Some of the PTW victory conditions (like Mass Regicide, where my use of all 8 kings as scouts and resource-denial units is obviously unfair, but fun to do sometimes as a diversion) are unfit for competitive play, but interesting to explore...

Especially when i take stabs at Deity sometimes!! (Yeah, that's the ticket!) Finding an interesting new edge can make even a Deity game fun...

Besides, i bought the game, i could mod my Scouts as 9-6-3 superunits if i want (i did once, and was delighted with the results!)

But just good ol' insatiable human curiosity, that's all the excuse i need, n'est-ce pas?

Thanks for enlightening me (once again,) Gracious Anarres... so, do tell, what's yon exploit consist of?

Merci beaucoup, mon ami.

 

[tomart109]

Originally posted by WillJ
Okay, resistance testing has begun. It'll probably take a pretty long time Of course, if anyone already knows how it works, now's a good time to tell me.

Just to let you know, i recently read a very detailed explanation by someone who has tested and worked out (almost) all the details of this, and even provides a formula where you plug in all the details, and it will tell you how many units to guarantee that it won't culture-flip.

I wish i could remember who did it, or the thread location, but it's in here somewhere Good luck!

Just wanted to save you starting from scratch.

 

[Shabbaman]

Try this one Tomart: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=53157

 

[tomart109]

Thanks, Shabbaman....

ok, WillJ, try the thread link Shabba made just above!