News: 6otM21 Announcement

[Falabello]

This will probably be my first Civ 6 GOTM (just switched from Civ 4). I'm having fun just learning the game.

Hi! I don't know if you remember me in Civ4 GOTM games...
Anyway, wellcome here in 6otM ! I did the same: from Civ4 right to Civ6, and there's no return! (In fact, I really miss Civ4 games...)
As always, I'm a medium player and have to learn with the best players here! I'm glad to find (or meet - don't know exactly the verb) a Civ4 player here ! Who knows others have the same idea !

BTW, good lucky in your #1 6otM... All players here know that Deity Civ6 is easier than Deity Civ4, but don't underestimate! It's funny that in almost thread here, Deity is easy as you might think... In the end it's the same: every Deity game (of the Month) ends with a half a dozen of victory's players (coincidentally the same top players ...) What about the other hundred?
So, join us and stay here ...

 

[timmyfiction]

Here's what folks mean by "city giving":
- religious victory is about getting each civ to have a majority of their cities follow your religion
- converting AI cities is tough on diety
- So rather than trying to convert the AI, you can plant a bunch of little cities, convert them to your religion, then trade them to the AI
- the AI will end up with a majority of their cities following your religion and then you win

Don't do that.

 

[Lily_Lancer]

Don't do that.

You need a clear definition instead of "Don't do that". For example, giving out cities when making peace treaties is common, so when AI ask you to give out cities to make peace, are you not allowed to make it in this way and have to fight until being eliminated?

 

[antimony]

I think the main issue we're trying to avoid is people using the cities they settled or conquered from one AI to convert another AI by city giving, possibly across continents.

On the other hand, conquering a city, converting it with an inquisitor and returning it in a peace deal seems fair.

This said I empathize with the difficulty of dealing with all exceptions, and the moderators should be free to pick a simple rule even if not all situations covered are clear exploits.

 

[antimony]

Also for anyone playing this game, keep in mind that the apostle proselytizer promotion was nerfed in the last patch, you cannot convert holy cities in one shot anymore.

 

[pontias]

You need a clear definition instead of "Don't do that". For example, giving out cities when making peace treaties is common, so when AI ask you to give out cities to make peace, are you not allowed to make it in this way and have to fight until being eliminated?

is giving a city away to stay alive an exploit? no.
is giving a city away with the sole intent of getting you closer to the victory condition? yes.

you're smart enough to know what is and what isn't an exploit. these games have always been reliant on the players sense of fair play to some extent without having to have hard, fast rules to enforce it.

 

[Lily_Lancer]

is giving a city away to stay alive an exploit? no.
is giving a city away with the sole intent of getting you closer to the victory condition? yes.

you're smart enough to know what is and what isn't an exploit. these games have always been reliant on the players sense of fair play to some extent without having to have hard, fast rules to enforce it.

I don't think "smart" helps. What is needed is a clear definition instead of useless words. If the boundary is not clarified, you can just argue that every other player playing better than you is using exploits since they must be using some strategies different than yours (otherwise they won't achieve better results). Then the discussion callpsed.

I've seen this many times before. There're always people saying "I prefer a peaceful victory, so my 200+ T victory is not bad. Those who take down AI cities are just using exploits. " So what we need is a clarified definition instead of "you're smart enough".

 

[Eyswein]

I'm considering Settler 1SW, but leaning toward 2S for the faster growth (3F1P for settle on cattle vice 2F1P if settle in the open) early while still being able to utilize the 4 seen 2F2P tiles within 2nd ring (after builder mines copper and stone).

Normally I'd start scout, settler, builder, multiple slingers but with the latest patch I haven't seen the AI leave a settler unguarded, so trying to decide if I still want the immediate scout for exploration or if it is better to delay that. Still probably worth it for the exploration, chance at tribal villages, and outside shot at meeting a city state first (or at least get an easy mission to get some early bonuses).

Definitely don't plan to compete for a great prophet, just take the free one. Plan to focus on survival to start and then militarily conquer continent I'm on. After that determine if I can go full religion then or need to conquer more off the continent.

Sad the patch screwed up joint wars - since I want to beeline to Mamluk, would have been nice to use joint wars to keep the other AI more friendly for a bit. Also annoyed with the great works bug - always found starting a war and letting the AI live for all their gold and a relic was a nice way to get some early faith if I didn't get one from a tribal village.

Now I just need to finish and post a game. Keep getting through 100 or so turns and then just starting the next one without finishing the last one.

 

[redrum68]

@Lily_Lancer I would say just keep it as a simple ban against the human player giving cities to the AI in any deal (peace or regular) period. That keeps it simple and avoids all the weird exceptions. Just like joint war is banned. Until the AI can be updated to have some basic logic around these diplomacy options, they should not be used period.

 

[kb27787]

Well, guaranteed great prophet aside, a mamluk rush (no need to fear no iron) looks to be in order. (wipe out all civs not following your religion)
This will be like taking candy from a baby if one does not get wiped out by aggressive AI within the first 20 turns. All one has to do is just get holy sites up.

Of course, the downside of the VC is that if you lose control of your religion, you can no longer win this GotM... all the more reason to avoid DoF so you can kill their religious units with military units.

Although I have to say I am at a loss at where to settle... I'd like to focus on campi for Arabia, and those mountains look good. But then that would leave me behind in culture and I need a culture pantheon... but I only see one cow and one orange... hardly enough to justify picking them. Hmmm... actually I have no idea what pantheon to get.

This will probably be my first Civ 6 GOTM (just switched from Civ 4). I'm having fun just learning the game. Beginner question, is it important to try and rush an early religion via Stonehenge or Holy Site, or is it considered smarter to just sit back and wait for the "free" prophet that Saladin gets?

On deity you will soon find out that 90% of the time there is only one option...

 

[leif erikson]

The exploit is that the AI does not understand that it will lose by your giving them a city with your religion in it. So I have told you that you cannot give cities in peace deals because that would allow you to do just that. You ask for a clear ruling, please cease complaining about it because you do not like it.

edit - better yet, make a suggestion?

 

[^MeSSiaH^]

Lily,
You have my respect as one of the best, if not the best Civ6 player now, but please, ease up a little.
As long as you are not North Korean athlete, your life does not depend on you winning the competition.
And if the rules are not 100% clear here, hey, its just a friendly game where we want to have fun. Not like they pay you a million for winning this thing.
Cheers,

 

[Zeppa]

I second antimony. At Deity there's no chance to get a religion, don't waist the effort. Take the free (last) religion in this game.

 

[^MeSSiaH^]

Most successful strat in RV is total domination plus convert leftovers anyway, so who cares what religion beliefs you get? Care more for military at start. Trying to get earlier prophet is just totally unproductive

 

[x2Madda]

Okay, City Giving is banned as an exploit for this game.

The sheer number of exploits at this point (not faulting you Lief!) has almost reached a point of parody.
I laughed heartily because we will reach a point where even looking at the AI diplomacy screen will be an exploit if Firaxis don't do some clean up work.

 

[Uberfrog]

I should have some time for this over the weekend, looks fun!

This will be my first Deity Civ VI game, but if I play a strong enough start it should be manageable. Difficult, but possible