BOTM 09 Final Spoiler
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News: BOTM 09 Final Spoiler
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For now I'll just give the casualties for this game ;p I'll add more later. I won domination.
I killed 656, lost 126
Tanks
66 current
107 built
41 killed
41 lost
Cossack
28 current
65 built
37 lost
Infantry
53 current
44 built (+ about 56 drafted)
35 killed
33 lost
Bomber
11 current
24 built
1 killed
13 lost
Marine
11 current
22 built
13 killed
11 lost
Catapult
14 current
19 built
19 killed
0
Cannon
1 current
18 built
26 killed
22 lost
Riflemen
3 current
15 built (+ around 15 drafted)
50 killed
6 lost
Axeman
6 current
12 built
7 killed
6 lost
Great General
9
Great Scientist
8
Great Engineer
5
Great Artist
2
Great Merchant
1
Great Spy
1
Battleship
1 current
5 built
1 killed
Trebuchet
4 current
4 built
13 killed
0
Archer
3 current
3 built
6 killed
0 lost
Machine Gun
1 current
1 built
7 killed
Ironclad
built 1
lost 1
Also killed...
1 praetorian
18 macemen
1 spearmen
35 pikemen
22 musketmen
14 crossbowmen
2 grenadiers
10 anti-tanks
20 SAM infantry
20 mobile SAM
3 paratroopers
48 longbowmen
1 immortal
3 knight
5 camel archer
73 curaissers
124 cavalry
5 artillery
17 mobile artillery
3 galley
1 caravel
2 galleons
1 transport
1 destroyer
6 airship
9 fighter
2 guided missles
10 war elephant
I killed 656, lost 126
Tanks
66 current
107 built
41 killed
41 lost
Cossack
28 current
65 built
37 lost
Infantry
53 current
44 built (+ about 56 drafted)
35 killed
33 lost
Bomber
11 current
24 built
1 killed
13 lost
Marine
11 current
22 built
13 killed
11 lost
Catapult
14 current
19 built
19 killed
0
Cannon
1 current
18 built
26 killed
22 lost
Riflemen
3 current
15 built (+ around 15 drafted)
50 killed
6 lost
Axeman
6 current
12 built
7 killed
6 lost
Great General
9
Great Scientist
8
Great Engineer
5
Great Artist
2
Great Merchant
1
Great Spy
1
Battleship
1 current
5 built
1 killed
Trebuchet
4 current
4 built
13 killed
0
Archer
3 current
3 built
6 killed
0 lost
Machine Gun
1 current
1 built
7 killed
Ironclad
built 1
lost 1
Also killed...
1 praetorian
18 macemen
1 spearmen
35 pikemen
22 musketmen
14 crossbowmen
2 grenadiers
10 anti-tanks
20 SAM infantry
20 mobile SAM
3 paratroopers
48 longbowmen
1 immortal
3 knight
5 camel archer
73 curaissers
124 cavalry
5 artillery
17 mobile artillery
3 galley
1 caravel
2 galleons
1 transport
1 destroyer
6 airship
9 fighter
2 guided missles
10 war elephant
Levgre, you are crazy 
. I killed less than 100 units, and this game took me 36 hours nonetheless.
Anyway, this was my first Immortal win ever
Contender, spaceship victory in 1850some.
I took out Cyrus before 1000AD with the help of virtually everone else; later blitzed Bismarck alone, cossacks + 2 infantry commandos vs. maces, pikes, bows and just a handful of rifles.
Guess I played both diplo and espionage well...all were friendly or pleased through most of the game, and I managed to steal some great techs: philo, steel, astro, divine right, railroad, combustion, assembly line, flight, rocketry, advanced flight.
Espionage seems to be a very nice tool to keep up the tech pace without trading too much away. Early communism and democracy are vital for this.
Btw I won the liberalism race, taking Steam Power - couldn't have done that without knowing everyone's tech path.
In the end I had a *very* comfortable tech lead; however Saladin was only some dozend turns away from culture victory, and JC had built up an impressive army of tanks, artillery and gunships. Fortunately, he allied with Wang Kong to attack Gilgamesh some turns before my launch, so I was relatively safe (and I got a def pact with Saladin).
I'm off now to get some sleep - 20 hours of botm09 in one session...
. I killed less than 100 units, and this game took me 36 hours nonetheless.Anyway, this was my first Immortal win ever
Contender, spaceship victory in 1850some.
I took out Cyrus before 1000AD with the help of virtually everone else; later blitzed Bismarck alone, cossacks + 2 infantry commandos vs. maces, pikes, bows and just a handful of rifles.
Guess I played both diplo and espionage well...all were friendly or pleased through most of the game, and I managed to steal some great techs: philo, steel, astro, divine right, railroad, combustion, assembly line, flight, rocketry, advanced flight.
Espionage seems to be a very nice tool to keep up the tech pace without trading too much away. Early communism and democracy are vital for this.
Btw I won the liberalism race, taking Steam Power - couldn't have done that without knowing everyone's tech path.
In the end I had a *very* comfortable tech lead; however Saladin was only some dozend turns away from culture victory, and JC had built up an impressive army of tanks, artillery and gunships. Fortunately, he allied with Wang Kong to attack Gilgamesh some turns before my launch, so I was relatively safe (and I got a def pact with Saladin).
I'm off now to get some sleep - 20 hours of botm09 in one session...
mabraham
Deity
Continuing on from here...
I'd done well out of the fact that the lone-religion hold-outs were generating the wars around them, and Frederick hadn't gone for me because I'd been keeping him good and happy and Julius had been keeping him busy with some pointless long-distance wars. However in the run up to Riflemen I saw that I could bribe Fred to attack Saladin... this would soften Fred nicely, so I did that. The -2 bribe penalty on Saladin was irrelevant because we had so many religious relationship modifiers. Shortly afterwards I DOWed on Fred and mopped him up quickly with riflemen. Cossacks weren't an issue, because I didn't have horses until I took my first city from Fred. Saladin helped nicely by taking down the Western front while I got the rest (and best) of Fred's land. Wang Kon joined the war against me, but just as he arrived with a stack I was able to bribe him back to peace for some tech, so that was no big deal for me, and it meant that my religious friends were more keen to hack at Wang Kon later.
The rest of the game was pretty vanilla... my religious bestest buddies kept down the hordes while I switched to State Property and won the Space Race in 1901.
I think the feature of the leader that best helped my game was the ability to use the industrious trait to start wonders I didn't care about, get the hammers doubled, and then convert them to gold later. This allowed me to run at 100% science (plus Representation specialists) for essentially the whole game. I was also very active in trading away resources for cash flow in.
I'd done well out of the fact that the lone-religion hold-outs were generating the wars around them, and Frederick hadn't gone for me because I'd been keeping him good and happy and Julius had been keeping him busy with some pointless long-distance wars. However in the run up to Riflemen I saw that I could bribe Fred to attack Saladin... this would soften Fred nicely, so I did that. The -2 bribe penalty on Saladin was irrelevant because we had so many religious relationship modifiers. Shortly afterwards I DOWed on Fred and mopped him up quickly with riflemen. Cossacks weren't an issue, because I didn't have horses until I took my first city from Fred. Saladin helped nicely by taking down the Western front while I got the rest (and best) of Fred's land. Wang Kon joined the war against me, but just as he arrived with a stack I was able to bribe him back to peace for some tech, so that was no big deal for me, and it meant that my religious friends were more keen to hack at Wang Kon later.
The rest of the game was pretty vanilla... my religious bestest buddies kept down the hordes while I switched to State Property and won the Space Race in 1901.
I think the feature of the leader that best helped my game was the ability to use the industrious trait to start wonders I didn't care about, get the hammers doubled, and then convert them to gold later. This allowed me to run at 100% science (plus Representation specialists) for essentially the whole game. I was also very active in trading away resources for cash flow in.
Okay...
Year 950 AD, 3 other nations declare war on the infidel buddhist Caesar. They eventually end up completely wiping him out at 1275 AD, leaving Gilgamesh with quite a high score (about 20% more than mine), and the whole left perimeter of the map.
1150 AD, I take Rifling with Liberalism, and prepare to invade. This is the time when I go into a 36(maybe it's 45 or so?) turn golden age, 3 straight ones at 1.5 length because of the mausoleum. This gave fuel for the production of my horde of Cossacks out of my meager 6 cities. I built around 50, who had about 15 riflemen for support and the catapults of before for bringing down especially strong cities (which were later upgraded into my cannons).
I declare war on Bismarck in 1310, kill him about 1410. He was still at medieval units such as longbowmen, macemen, knights and Pikemen. Unfortunately it took much longer that it should have, because I was forced into peace once by the palace, and during the interim Bismark sneakily signed a defensive pact with Persia, so I had to redirect some units there. He also built up a stack of about 25 curiassers, although my cossacks beat them pretty easily.
After conquering some cities I am forced into peace with Cyrus in 1540 AD. Right at this time is when I obtain assembly line also, ushering in the age of infantry (with Cossack and cannon support, of course).
1635 I finish off Cyrus. Next is Wang Kong. With great fortune Gilgamesh declares war at him at this moment. I hold off here for a bit and let Gilg take care of some of Wang's units, although Gilg does end up taking 4-5 cities. He had cuirassers and riflemen, and some cavalry. Wang Kong puts up the least resistance by far.
1712 Wang Kong is gone.
1690 comes State Property, which is quite useful with my now about 30 cities.
1758 I declare war on Saladin, and wipe him out at 1800. Now just me and Gilg. At this point he has a tech lead on me, in addition to getting mining inc. However, I am still a good at least a bit superior in production.
Industrialism comes at 1770 A.D., so I can start building a huge tank force (at it's peak around 80) with lots of drafted infantry to back them up. At this point I am creating combat 4 infantry out of moscow, and drafting combat 3 infantry out of Hamburg nearly every turn with Globe Theatre.
1840, I declare war on Gilgamesh, I built an about 80 troop army on the north and on the south, with my plan being that one may be outnumbered and take a decent beating, but Gilgamesh will completely not adequately prepare for the other one, which will then romp through his cities, reducing his production and getting me closer to the population and land area needed for domination. What happened is the south front stalled to a much slower pace after taking 3-4 cities. (he had tanks, mobile artillery, mobile SAMS, and my southern force was largely composed of infantry, with some tank and bomber support).
The northern force, with about 20 infantry, 10 marines, 30 tanks, and the surviving 25 cossacks to complement my fast striking force, wiped out about 5 large outmatched stacks of Gilgamesh (probably about 120 units over 8 turns or so), leaving him quite hurting, although still putting up a defense.
The highest fatality rate at this point was among my bombers, who got shot down quite frequently from SAM infantry and mobile SAMs, in their heroic efforts to bring down the city defenses for my tanks.
In 1855, 16 turns later, after taking about 9 of Gilgamesh's cities, I have the required population and am about 1% away from the needed land area. I settler a couple cities to fill holes in the back, and take one more of Gilg's cities, and win on turn 1856.
At this point my score was 6371, and Gilg's was 3801. I had just finished superconductors, and had 43 cities (plus the 3 i just built to fill space). I got industrialism, radio, and flight for my advanced techs, although i never ended up getting and using artillery.
Adjusted score was about 117,000. Could have done better in some regards, but this is one of my first immortal games I actually played to completion. Learned some things I'll keep in mind for next time, to make things go faster.
Year 950 AD, 3 other nations declare war on the infidel buddhist Caesar. They eventually end up completely wiping him out at 1275 AD, leaving Gilgamesh with quite a high score (about 20% more than mine), and the whole left perimeter of the map.
1150 AD, I take Rifling with Liberalism, and prepare to invade. This is the time when I go into a 36(maybe it's 45 or so?) turn golden age, 3 straight ones at 1.5 length because of the mausoleum. This gave fuel for the production of my horde of Cossacks out of my meager 6 cities. I built around 50, who had about 15 riflemen for support and the catapults of before for bringing down especially strong cities (which were later upgraded into my cannons).
I declare war on Bismarck in 1310, kill him about 1410. He was still at medieval units such as longbowmen, macemen, knights and Pikemen. Unfortunately it took much longer that it should have, because I was forced into peace once by the palace, and during the interim Bismark sneakily signed a defensive pact with Persia, so I had to redirect some units there. He also built up a stack of about 25 curiassers, although my cossacks beat them pretty easily.
After conquering some cities I am forced into peace with Cyrus in 1540 AD. Right at this time is when I obtain assembly line also, ushering in the age of infantry (with Cossack and cannon support, of course).
1635 I finish off Cyrus. Next is Wang Kong. With great fortune Gilgamesh declares war at him at this moment. I hold off here for a bit and let Gilg take care of some of Wang's units, although Gilg does end up taking 4-5 cities. He had cuirassers and riflemen, and some cavalry. Wang Kong puts up the least resistance by far.
1712 Wang Kong is gone.
1690 comes State Property, which is quite useful with my now about 30 cities.
1758 I declare war on Saladin, and wipe him out at 1800. Now just me and Gilg. At this point he has a tech lead on me, in addition to getting mining inc. However, I am still a good at least a bit superior in production.
Industrialism comes at 1770 A.D., so I can start building a huge tank force (at it's peak around 80) with lots of drafted infantry to back them up. At this point I am creating combat 4 infantry out of moscow, and drafting combat 3 infantry out of Hamburg nearly every turn with Globe Theatre.
1840, I declare war on Gilgamesh, I built an about 80 troop army on the north and on the south, with my plan being that one may be outnumbered and take a decent beating, but Gilgamesh will completely not adequately prepare for the other one, which will then romp through his cities, reducing his production and getting me closer to the population and land area needed for domination. What happened is the south front stalled to a much slower pace after taking 3-4 cities. (he had tanks, mobile artillery, mobile SAMS, and my southern force was largely composed of infantry, with some tank and bomber support).
The northern force, with about 20 infantry, 10 marines, 30 tanks, and the surviving 25 cossacks to complement my fast striking force, wiped out about 5 large outmatched stacks of Gilgamesh (probably about 120 units over 8 turns or so), leaving him quite hurting, although still putting up a defense.
The highest fatality rate at this point was among my bombers, who got shot down quite frequently from SAM infantry and mobile SAMs, in their heroic efforts to bring down the city defenses for my tanks.
In 1855, 16 turns later, after taking about 9 of Gilgamesh's cities, I have the required population and am about 1% away from the needed land area. I settler a couple cities to fill holes in the back, and take one more of Gilg's cities, and win on turn 1856.
At this point my score was 6371, and Gilg's was 3801. I had just finished superconductors, and had 43 cities (plus the 3 i just built to fill space). I got industrialism, radio, and flight for my advanced techs, although i never ended up getting and using artillery.
Adjusted score was about 117,000. Could have done better in some regards, but this is one of my first immortal games I actually played to completion. Learned some things I'll keep in mind for next time, to make things go faster.
The-Hawk
Old Original Geezer
The starting location and surrounding region did not favor a culture win, there was no great GP location, and no great spot for the 3rd legendary city. So, I decided to try for culture. Took me a long time partly because of the poor map, partly because of bad luck (only had 2 religions spread to me, popped 2 great spies at 10% probability because of Great Wall).
I did have one bizarre "bad luck, good luck" sequence. Well into the game Gilgamesh was Friendly with me. All of a sudden, he DOWs and sends a massive stack into my land. My one-warrior-per-city defense was going to get rolled up, but I decided to play on with the hope I could sue for peace before he hit my legendary cities. However, the whole time I'm thinking "what is the RNG probability a friendly civ DOWs, what terrible luck"
. However, the very next turn, before Gilgamesh even pillages a tile, I get some massive good luck. The Apostolic Palace owner calls for a "stop the war on pathetic Stalin" vote. Needless to say, I vote "save Stalin's bacon" 
... so do my other friends. Other than wasting a few pop (I immediately started whipping LBs), no impact on me.
I ended with culture win in 1780 AD. A pretty slow game, but maybe not too bad given I only had two religions and 7 GAs.
I did have one bizarre "bad luck, good luck" sequence. Well into the game Gilgamesh was Friendly with me. All of a sudden, he DOWs and sends a massive stack into my land. My one-warrior-per-city defense was going to get rolled up, but I decided to play on with the hope I could sue for peace before he hit my legendary cities. However, the whole time I'm thinking "what is the RNG probability a friendly civ DOWs, what terrible luck"
. However, the very next turn, before Gilgamesh even pillages a tile, I get some massive good luck. The Apostolic Palace owner calls for a "stop the war on pathetic Stalin" vote. Needless to say, I vote "save Stalin's bacon" ... so do my other friends. Other than wasting a few pop (I immediately started whipping LBs), no impact on me.I ended with culture win in 1780 AD. A pretty slow game, but maybe not too bad given I only had two religions and 7 GAs.
Cromwell
Chieftain
Adventurer, Religious, January 1946
So I was playing this game to survive, with no real plan. The dawn of the 20th century, Sumer was well ahead, having captured some of Arabia and most of Rome. Sumer, Arabia, Germany and Russia are all Buddhist, and Buddhism has been spread to every city. Sumer went to free religion early, so elections came down to me and Bismarck. Persia is leading the spaceship charge. I've got 2 captured Persian cities. I've got Creative Construction spanning the world, I am starting to catch up in tech, with 100% research and cities either working on research or spaceships and am a respectable 2nd in the spaceship race, until spies destroy part of it. I have defensive pacts with Germany and Arabia, and virtually no defenses, mostly machine guns and leftover cannons and cossacks from the Korean invasion some years earlier. Sumer builds the UN, enacts free speech, free religion, destroys Ceasar, rolls into Korea. Persia, who I've been bickering with throughout history, suddenly invades with tanks and gunships, capturing the 3 cities north of Moscow in two turns. I switch to nationalism and start drafting infantry and upgrading them to SAMs, and cut back to 2 cities working on the spaceship, have the rest making defensive units. Fortunately Arabia and Germany keep sending armies up and fighting over th, distracting the Persian forces; Gordium keeps switching owners; but I really have no hope; I can no longer switch back to theocracy and vote myself peace, which is how I survived this long.
When suddenly... I win. UN mandated Free religion means I'm unopposed for the religious election, and Sumer recent capture of the main Korean cities put my total over the top.
Looking back on it, I think the reason I won is that I finished the Castle quest earlier in the game, and took the +3 bonus.
First Immortal win, first immortal game, first completed game of BtS.
So I was playing this game to survive, with no real plan. The dawn of the 20th century, Sumer was well ahead, having captured some of Arabia and most of Rome. Sumer, Arabia, Germany and Russia are all Buddhist, and Buddhism has been spread to every city. Sumer went to free religion early, so elections came down to me and Bismarck. Persia is leading the spaceship charge. I've got 2 captured Persian cities. I've got Creative Construction spanning the world, I am starting to catch up in tech, with 100% research and cities either working on research or spaceships and am a respectable 2nd in the spaceship race, until spies destroy part of it. I have defensive pacts with Germany and Arabia, and virtually no defenses, mostly machine guns and leftover cannons and cossacks from the Korean invasion some years earlier. Sumer builds the UN, enacts free speech, free religion, destroys Ceasar, rolls into Korea. Persia, who I've been bickering with throughout history, suddenly invades with tanks and gunships, capturing the 3 cities north of Moscow in two turns. I switch to nationalism and start drafting infantry and upgrading them to SAMs, and cut back to 2 cities working on the spaceship, have the rest making defensive units. Fortunately Arabia and Germany keep sending armies up and fighting over th, distracting the Persian forces; Gordium keeps switching owners; but I really have no hope; I can no longer switch back to theocracy and vote myself peace, which is how I survived this long.
When suddenly... I win. UN mandated Free religion means I'm unopposed for the religious election, and Sumer recent capture of the main Korean cities put my total over the top.
Looking back on it, I think the reason I won is that I finished the Castle quest earlier in the game, and took the +3 bonus.
First Immortal win, first immortal game, first completed game of BtS.
Yamps
Deity
I did have one bizarre "bad luck, good luck" sequence. Well into the game Gilgamesh was Friendly with me. All of a sudden, he DOWs and sends a massive stack into my land. My one-warrior-per-city defense was going to get rolled up, but I decided to play on with the hope I could sue for peace before he hit my legendary cities. However, the whole time I'm thinking "what is the RNG probability a friendly civ DOWs, what terrible luck"
AFAIK, DoW from Friendly Gilga is only possible if he decided to attack while Pleased.
I had a lot of fun with this game, war was used to keep the peace.
I bribed Bismarck to attack Saladin and Wang to attack JC very early in the game. Cyrus was Pleased at me and Gilga occupied with wars as well so there was practically no chances for a DoW. I had a low military until rifling when I started massive drafting. However, Domination plans were going to slow so after ~30h of play I settled for the late Religious victory. Looking forward to the next game! 
blastoidstalker
The Geographer
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2006
- Messages
- 529
Domination victory in 1520AD around 240,000 pts
The basic gist of the game was to beeline to rifleman and Cossacks then take over what was left of the world as fast as possible. I think the key to this game was balancing how much early conquest with focus towards research. I took out Bismark in the BC but left the barbarian Antarctic cities below him alone for fear of maintenance costs, letting Saladin take them. My wars with Cyrus straddled the 500 AD time and was thought with mace and catapult, and were the most challenging on the game. His land was better and I kept all of his cities. I came within 20 votes of a religious victory around 1000 AD by chance. Saladin had built the Hindu AP and Gilgamesh liked me so much that he voted for me as supreme leader. The problem was my plan was to leave Saladin as he was such a close friend and strong tech trading partner and all my troops were on the north side of the map, so this moment passed.
The next to civs. to fall were victim to sneak attacks. Near the end of the war with Cyrus, Wan Kon sent about 10 of his special unit catapults through my lands to some unknown site; they were split into groups of 2-4 apiece. As they started to move back towards the Korean homeland once Cyrus was gone I DOW and took them all out in the first turn. 5 turns later I got Rifling and easily captured his knight and longbow guarded cities. Gilgamesh had taken care of all but 3 of Rome's cities and declared on Wan Kon in the late stages of my war. I let him take Wan Kon's next to last city with a huge stack of about 15 knights, 10 mace and 15 trebuchets and an assortment of other units. I then hit him the next turn in the occupied city and his units were easy prey to my Trebs, Cossacks and riflemen. After this the rest of the game was mop up. I achieved domination with Saladin the only other remaining civ.
The biggest thing I picked up in this game was the power of beelining rifling and the advantage of being able to hit the AI's siege weapons in the first turn of a war. It completely stopped his ability to counter my offensives with better units.
The basic gist of the game was to beeline to rifleman and Cossacks then take over what was left of the world as fast as possible. I think the key to this game was balancing how much early conquest with focus towards research. I took out Bismark in the BC but left the barbarian Antarctic cities below him alone for fear of maintenance costs, letting Saladin take them. My wars with Cyrus straddled the 500 AD time and was thought with mace and catapult, and were the most challenging on the game. His land was better and I kept all of his cities. I came within 20 votes of a religious victory around 1000 AD by chance. Saladin had built the Hindu AP and Gilgamesh liked me so much that he voted for me as supreme leader. The problem was my plan was to leave Saladin as he was such a close friend and strong tech trading partner and all my troops were on the north side of the map, so this moment passed.
The next to civs. to fall were victim to sneak attacks. Near the end of the war with Cyrus, Wan Kon sent about 10 of his special unit catapults through my lands to some unknown site; they were split into groups of 2-4 apiece. As they started to move back towards the Korean homeland once Cyrus was gone I DOW and took them all out in the first turn. 5 turns later I got Rifling and easily captured his knight and longbow guarded cities. Gilgamesh had taken care of all but 3 of Rome's cities and declared on Wan Kon in the late stages of my war. I let him take Wan Kon's next to last city with a huge stack of about 15 knights, 10 mace and 15 trebuchets and an assortment of other units. I then hit him the next turn in the occupied city and his units were easy prey to my Trebs, Cossacks and riflemen. After this the rest of the game was mop up. I achieved domination with Saladin the only other remaining civ.
The biggest thing I picked up in this game was the power of beelining rifling and the advantage of being able to hit the AI's siege weapons in the first turn of a war. It completely stopped his ability to counter my offensives with better units.
The-Hawk
Old Original Geezer
I was wondering the same thing. From my autolog:
Turn 246/750 (1010 AD) [22-Aug-2008 18:53:40]
Attitude Change: Gilgamesh(Sumeria) towards Stalin(Russia), from 'Pleased' to 'Friendly'
Turn 257/750 (1120 AD) [22-Aug-2008 19:05:58]
Gilgamesh(Sumeria) declares war on Stalin(Russia)
Attitude Change: Gilgamesh(Sumeria) towards Stalin(Russia), from 'Friendly' to 'Pleased'
So I guess he decided on war on turn 245 or earlier, at least 12 turns before the attack.
As stated here I decided to try out a few BTS things.
Got the AP built 160AD, spread confu around to everyone, completely covering Rome, Germany and Korea, while the Persians managed on their own. Also slipped in a confu missionary into arabia before they went into theocracy, and snuck one in on Gilgamesh as well to cover everyone.
For some reason I just couldn't get Caesar friendly enough to convert to confu (and get even friendlier) and he stayed jewish for most of the game. For ages I would've won a religious victory if only Caesar would turn (he was more + with me than Sal, but still more friendly towards the arabians). I also could not get the vote spread out differently, so eventually I had to abandon this plan and use a GE stored up to build the UN in 1730 and try to leverage my early diplo relations.
At some point here a regular worldwar broke out vs Gilgamesh (which scored me more diplo points at no effort) and Cyrus decided to whipe out the Germans.
Finally when the dust settled it looked like I'd be short some votes for diplo as well, and I had to pursue a somewhat late Space Victory. As I got that started, all of a sudden a second world war got started with the poor Wang Kon a target. Didn't work out too well for him, but did wonders for how the population spread out. And all of a sudden I got my diplo win, somehow, when I had really given up on it.. 520 votes required, 522 votes aquired
End result : Diplo Win at 1843
Got the AP built 160AD, spread confu around to everyone, completely covering Rome, Germany and Korea, while the Persians managed on their own. Also slipped in a confu missionary into arabia before they went into theocracy, and snuck one in on Gilgamesh as well to cover everyone.
For some reason I just couldn't get Caesar friendly enough to convert to confu (and get even friendlier) and he stayed jewish for most of the game. For ages I would've won a religious victory if only Caesar would turn (he was more + with me than Sal, but still more friendly towards the arabians). I also could not get the vote spread out differently, so eventually I had to abandon this plan and use a GE stored up to build the UN in 1730 and try to leverage my early diplo relations.
At some point here a regular worldwar broke out vs Gilgamesh (which scored me more diplo points at no effort) and Cyrus decided to whipe out the Germans.
Finally when the dust settled it looked like I'd be short some votes for diplo as well, and I had to pursue a somewhat late Space Victory. As I got that started, all of a sudden a second world war got started with the poor Wang Kon a target. Didn't work out too well for him, but did wonders for how the population spread out. And all of a sudden I got my diplo win, somehow, when I had really given up on it.. 520 votes required, 522 votes aquired
End result : Diplo Win at 1843
Harbourboy
Deity
Religious Loss for me in 1400 AD. My game was all over after my first stack of axes was obliterated in an attack on one barbarian city. Oh well, on to the next one.
Seems to be a lot of this going around. See spoiler "What are the reasons for my success?" to read my opinion about why.
Adventurer save (+1 worker + Agri)
Goal: survive and expand and try to stay close enough in tech to pull out a space victory and avoid being a target for invasion.
As pointed out in the previous spoiler, at 500AD I was down to 10% research, running a mostly specialist economy, mopping up Bismark, and fretting about Cyrus, and watching my tech lead slowly erode away.
At least barbs dont bother me still. I have a couple barb cities tucked away in the tundra regions. I dont want them, but they stay on their side of the GW. I feel a little guilty about harboring terrorists,
but really, its not my problem. On to the report
I send a spy into Persia hoping to get advance warning if he moves his troops aggressively. I see in his nearest cities only a few garrison units (where did all those horsies go???). The spy starts looking deeper into the territory. Suddenly a HUGE stack of 4WE, 6 HA, 12 Immortals, 7-8 Cats, and 1 axe + 1 sword DOW me and jump across the border 4N and 1 W of St Pete.
As it turns out, it was not even 2 turns after Bismark is nothing but a memory! My units are moving north but cannot get there in time to save anything, only re-capture. Holy sh*t. Desperation time.
Three AI have Engineering, but only one (Gilga the tech leader) is willing to trade for it. I had to give up my monopoly on newly-acquired Nationalism plus Education plus Liberalism to get it, though. Oh well when survival is at stake, you do what you need to do. Engineering cuts 2-3 turns off the time required to get my own army back to St. Pete. AND it allows me to convert the spear in Moscow and Rostov to Pikes. Cyrus timed his attack well, since a recent civics change prevented me from going into the Nationhood civic for drafting. Stupidly, one stack was on auto-move and moved before the trade for engineering, only 2 spaces on roads. Then I look at the map and see that my army arrives in the city 1 turn after the SOD arrives at the walls of St Pete. Oh well it was fun while it lasted. Anyhow, if the stack is headed to Rostov instead of St Pete, I could survive the loss (and conversely, wouldnt even come close to getting units into action in time). But if it was after Rostov, why the stupid move into my territory? It could DOW and attack Rostov with all those mounted units in the same turn and Rostovs 1 axe + 1spear would not do much to stop it.
Anyhow, next turn Cyrus moves the stack 1E. Huh? Is he going after Rostov after all??? Doe she think he needs to avoid flat terrain for fear my one or two obsolete units might pre-empt attack???
Should I leave that new Pike in Rostov now? Yes, it stays put the pike can move faster than this SOD which is encumbered by those 1-move units. So he stays until Im sure where the stack is headed. But actually I am emphatic with joy!!!! Now my army arrives in time to save St Pete! Rostov is expendable (and when my army gets there, Cyrus is going to PAY FOR THIS!!!) As it turns out, Cyrus was just feinting to the right, and proceeded to head for St Pete. Stupid AI.
View attachment 188052
The only smart thing it did was DOW me after a civics change so I couldnt switch to Nationhood and/or slavery and start drafting/popping new units. But by the time his stack arrives at my walls, now I will be in Nationhood and be getting 3 mace units per turn from the local populations. I giveem a little cat-damage as soon as they are in range, but hold back on the counter attack since maces dont fare so well against those elephants. But in my city, besides a dozen highly promoted mace (inlc medic), I have 3 fresh (Combat 2 + Melee promoted) Pikes, and 1 LBs with city defense x 2. To make a long story short, Cyrus army smashes itslef on the walls of St Pete, and my mace pick up some more promotions and make some more great generals.
And wheres your army now, Cyrus?
Takes a while to heal damaged units and move them to position, but Bactra and Susa both fall easily. I move towards Persiopolis, but unfortunately that left Susa under-protected, and a trio of HAs re-take it. I re-take it the next turn, but start to realize that my army is too depleted. I also see that Cyrus is building a new SOD in Persiopolis. So I let him pay me 260 gold and WM for peace. Im teching beeline to rifling and should be there in 100 years or so anyhow. Then say goodnight Cyrus.
(Oh, well Cyrus breaks the peace and attacks me with Knights 4 turns before rifling anyhow I guess he knows whats coming). I put that wandering spy to use by putting Persiopolis into revolt before the attack.
About 1300AD I am first to Rifling. But the leading AI have Chemistry, Corp, Dem, and Mil Trad which I lack. And Saladin (the one who hates me most after Cyrus) is only about 10 turns from rifling himself. So to speed up the war, I bribe Wang with a tech to war against Cyrus from the other side. My rifles (promoted from veteran maces, mostly) make quick work of Cyrus. By about 1500AD Cyrus is gone and my empire has 9 formerly Persian cities. I am now the score leader, and wish that Dynamic Spirit chose this game to end at 1910AD, too. But alas, Ill have to keep chugging along.
I will be first to Assembly Line, due about 1600AD.
In the 1700s, Saladin inexplicably attacks Wang. Saldin hates me more, and Im not much more powerful than Wang, and he doesnt need to cross the sea to get to me. And Im more of a threat to win the game. I guess my +17 diplo with Gilga is what gets me the respect it sure isnt my army which he could easily match. (But to be honest, those Cav and cannon used to invade Wang would have trouble against my much fewer Rifle/Infantry). At periods, I had DP with Gilga, but not just at that moment, which was good. I didnt want Saladin to get too powerful by beating Wang easily. I had been planning to attack Wang myself for some time, so had a fair stack of infantry ready. I was planning to wait 4 turns to Industrialism, and figured it could be done much more effectively with tanks. But when Saldin asks me to join him wiping out the Koreans the time had come. As it turns out, I had missed combustion, and even though I thought I had oil from forts somehwere, I couldnt build tanks for an additional 8 turns (to research combustion) despite having industrialism. When the war was over about 1810AD, Saldin had taken 6 cities and I had taken 5, and Wang was left with zero. Poor Wang.
But I bet Saldins maintenence on those cities was enormous, and some of them were crap. I got 3 good cities, 1 mediocre city, and one crap. Saladin is falling behind farther anyhow. Im even pulling away from Gilga (in score). But Gilga is leading in techs (and Saldin is ahead of me in tech too). I just have the military tech edge for the moment. Gilga gained his position by taking over most of Rome, btw. I was his ally in spirit, at least, so he still loves me. Plus I fed him tons of techs along the way by trade, and even one gift when he was at war with Saladin. Back to the game
.
Next steps everything aimed at space race: I start building factories like crazy. All the tech and commerce buildings I can (within city specialization in mind). Prioritized and got 3 Gorges Dam (beeline plastics). Prioritized Computers (for Internet, to get all those techs that Sala and Gilga wont give me). Beeline Fusion for a GE, then directly a space elevator (not to mention Research Inst). Oh crap, you need superconductors for those RI. Eventually yes, but not until space elev is being built. And Sala builds the UN! But guess what, I am now big enough to be in the election, and we all hate Saladin. Im the UN Sec Gen!
Gilga gets Appollo finished first. He gets one SS part completed, even, but Im not worried because he is far from fusion, and my Internet is ready in a few turns, when I catch up all the cheaper techs. But Gilga just got a GE, and is begging for Computers. I have to say no, afraid I could lose that race. He drops me to +15 in love. That very turn, I get to ask for diplo victory. Crap bad timing. But what the heck, I can block anybody else from winning, and Gilga might still vote for me anyhow, so WTH, lets try to sneak a diplo win (even though I think a space win is still looking quite good 19 turns to build appollo, though). One of the reasons I feel good about space race is that I have Standard Ethanol, Inc. In almost every city. The HQ is in my Wall Street city. And I have 9 of the resources, at +2 beaker bonus per resource. This bonus gives +18 beakers in every city having Std Ethanol, Inc. And these go through all the Academy, Observatory, Univeristy, Library modifiers to be even more than that in practise. Think how many specialists you need to get +18 beakers!!! All for a one-time fee of 89 gold and a Corp Exec. Ok, I had a lot of courthouses to cut the fee per turn per city, so that the amount of gold made at the HQ (roughly +1 base commerce per city having the corp, then multipliers like Wall St) makes up for the amount lost at the city (about -6 commerce per city) and even turns a profit!!!. Do this right and you will kick azz in research, and get rich doing it. At end-game, I make 2488 beakers per turn and thus can research something like Fusion (19500 beakers) in 8 turns. Thats pretty good, and way ahead of the AI rates. And thats without setting any of my production powerhouses to building research, and running at 60% research. Thats nice because like specialists, the bonus isn't so sensitive to the slider, so you can do whatever you want with the slider and still beat everyone in research. This, btw, is the first time Ive ever made any intentional practical use out of a corporation. So I learned an awful lot! They fit my space race goal excellently, and Std Eth is a great tech corp depending of course on what kinds of resources are out there.
View attachment 188055View attachment 188059View attachment 188056
But as it turns out, the way I actually won didnt need them
1865AD, Gilga votes for me to win Diplo victory. Wow. It wasnt what I was aiming for, but Ill take a win at (nerfed) Immortal level whenever I can get it. This is my first win above Emperor level. EVER! Highest XOTM score ever, too. And now I wont ever play adventurer saves anymore (OK, maybe if we get up to Deity again but probably not).
View attachment 188053View attachment 188054View attachment 188057View attachment 188058
Comments: I never built a single Cossack (tanks and infantry are better), nor a single Research Inst (never got to Superconductors). Totally useless UU and UB, from my view (though I had been hoping the UB would boost me in my goal of a space win). Cheap forges and free Combat I promotions, OTOH, are very useful indeed, so Stalins traits mesh nicely with my play style.
Self-evaluation: What are the reasons behind this success? (No particular order)
What could I do better?
Results & score
See spoiler "What are the reasons for my success?" to read my opinion about why.Adventurer save (+1 worker + Agri)
Goal: survive and expand and try to stay close enough in tech to pull out a space victory and avoid being a target for invasion.
As pointed out in the previous spoiler, at 500AD I was down to 10% research, running a mostly specialist economy, mopping up Bismark, and fretting about Cyrus, and watching my tech lead slowly erode away.
At least barbs dont bother me still. I have a couple barb cities tucked away in the tundra regions. I dont want them, but they stay on their side of the GW. I feel a little guilty about harboring terrorists,
but really, its not my problem. On to the report
I send a spy into Persia hoping to get advance warning if he moves his troops aggressively. I see in his nearest cities only a few garrison units (where did all those horsies go???). The spy starts looking deeper into the territory. Suddenly a HUGE stack of 4WE, 6 HA, 12 Immortals, 7-8 Cats, and 1 axe + 1 sword DOW me and jump across the border 4N and 1 W of St Pete.
As it turns out, it was not even 2 turns after Bismark is nothing but a memory! My units are moving north but cannot get there in time to save anything, only re-capture. Holy sh*t. Desperation time.
Three AI have Engineering, but only one (Gilga the tech leader) is willing to trade for it. I had to give up my monopoly on newly-acquired Nationalism plus Education plus Liberalism to get it, though. Oh well when survival is at stake, you do what you need to do. Engineering cuts 2-3 turns off the time required to get my own army back to St. Pete. AND it allows me to convert the spear in Moscow and Rostov to Pikes. Cyrus timed his attack well, since a recent civics change prevented me from going into the Nationhood civic for drafting. Stupidly, one stack was on auto-move and moved before the trade for engineering, only 2 spaces on roads. Then I look at the map and see that my army arrives in the city 1 turn after the SOD arrives at the walls of St Pete. Oh well it was fun while it lasted. Anyhow, if the stack is headed to Rostov instead of St Pete, I could survive the loss (and conversely, wouldnt even come close to getting units into action in time). But if it was after Rostov, why the stupid move into my territory? It could DOW and attack Rostov with all those mounted units in the same turn and Rostovs 1 axe + 1spear would not do much to stop it.
Anyhow, next turn Cyrus moves the stack 1E. Huh? Is he going after Rostov after all??? Doe she think he needs to avoid flat terrain for fear my one or two obsolete units might pre-empt attack???
Should I leave that new Pike in Rostov now? Yes, it stays put the pike can move faster than this SOD which is encumbered by those 1-move units. So he stays until Im sure where the stack is headed. But actually I am emphatic with joy!!!! Now my army arrives in time to save St Pete! Rostov is expendable (and when my army gets there, Cyrus is going to PAY FOR THIS!!!) As it turns out, Cyrus was just feinting to the right, and proceeded to head for St Pete. Stupid AI.
View attachment 188052
The only smart thing it did was DOW me after a civics change so I couldnt switch to Nationhood and/or slavery and start drafting/popping new units. But by the time his stack arrives at my walls, now I will be in Nationhood and be getting 3 mace units per turn from the local populations. I giveem a little cat-damage as soon as they are in range, but hold back on the counter attack since maces dont fare so well against those elephants. But in my city, besides a dozen highly promoted mace (inlc medic), I have 3 fresh (Combat 2 + Melee promoted) Pikes, and 1 LBs with city defense x 2. To make a long story short, Cyrus army smashes itslef on the walls of St Pete, and my mace pick up some more promotions and make some more great generals.
And wheres your army now, Cyrus?
Takes a while to heal damaged units and move them to position, but Bactra and Susa both fall easily. I move towards Persiopolis, but unfortunately that left Susa under-protected, and a trio of HAs re-take it. I re-take it the next turn, but start to realize that my army is too depleted. I also see that Cyrus is building a new SOD in Persiopolis. So I let him pay me 260 gold and WM for peace. Im teching beeline to rifling and should be there in 100 years or so anyhow. Then say goodnight Cyrus.
(Oh, well Cyrus breaks the peace and attacks me with Knights 4 turns before rifling anyhow I guess he knows whats coming). I put that wandering spy to use by putting Persiopolis into revolt before the attack.
About 1300AD I am first to Rifling. But the leading AI have Chemistry, Corp, Dem, and Mil Trad which I lack. And Saladin (the one who hates me most after Cyrus) is only about 10 turns from rifling himself. So to speed up the war, I bribe Wang with a tech to war against Cyrus from the other side. My rifles (promoted from veteran maces, mostly) make quick work of Cyrus. By about 1500AD Cyrus is gone and my empire has 9 formerly Persian cities. I am now the score leader, and wish that Dynamic Spirit chose this game to end at 1910AD, too. But alas, Ill have to keep chugging along.
I will be first to Assembly Line, due about 1600AD.
In the 1700s, Saladin inexplicably attacks Wang. Saldin hates me more, and Im not much more powerful than Wang, and he doesnt need to cross the sea to get to me. And Im more of a threat to win the game. I guess my +17 diplo with Gilga is what gets me the respect it sure isnt my army which he could easily match. (But to be honest, those Cav and cannon used to invade Wang would have trouble against my much fewer Rifle/Infantry). At periods, I had DP with Gilga, but not just at that moment, which was good. I didnt want Saladin to get too powerful by beating Wang easily. I had been planning to attack Wang myself for some time, so had a fair stack of infantry ready. I was planning to wait 4 turns to Industrialism, and figured it could be done much more effectively with tanks. But when Saldin asks me to join him wiping out the Koreans the time had come. As it turns out, I had missed combustion, and even though I thought I had oil from forts somehwere, I couldnt build tanks for an additional 8 turns (to research combustion) despite having industrialism. When the war was over about 1810AD, Saldin had taken 6 cities and I had taken 5, and Wang was left with zero. Poor Wang.
But I bet Saldins maintenence on those cities was enormous, and some of them were crap. I got 3 good cities, 1 mediocre city, and one crap. Saladin is falling behind farther anyhow. Im even pulling away from Gilga (in score). But Gilga is leading in techs (and Saldin is ahead of me in tech too). I just have the military tech edge for the moment. Gilga gained his position by taking over most of Rome, btw. I was his ally in spirit, at least, so he still loves me. Plus I fed him tons of techs along the way by trade, and even one gift when he was at war with Saladin. Back to the game
.Next steps everything aimed at space race: I start building factories like crazy. All the tech and commerce buildings I can (within city specialization in mind). Prioritized and got 3 Gorges Dam (beeline plastics). Prioritized Computers (for Internet, to get all those techs that Sala and Gilga wont give me). Beeline Fusion for a GE, then directly a space elevator (not to mention Research Inst). Oh crap, you need superconductors for those RI. Eventually yes, but not until space elev is being built. And Sala builds the UN! But guess what, I am now big enough to be in the election, and we all hate Saladin. Im the UN Sec Gen!
Gilga gets Appollo finished first. He gets one SS part completed, even, but Im not worried because he is far from fusion, and my Internet is ready in a few turns, when I catch up all the cheaper techs. But Gilga just got a GE, and is begging for Computers. I have to say no, afraid I could lose that race. He drops me to +15 in love. That very turn, I get to ask for diplo victory. Crap bad timing. But what the heck, I can block anybody else from winning, and Gilga might still vote for me anyhow, so WTH, lets try to sneak a diplo win (even though I think a space win is still looking quite good 19 turns to build appollo, though). One of the reasons I feel good about space race is that I have Standard Ethanol, Inc. In almost every city. The HQ is in my Wall Street city. And I have 9 of the resources, at +2 beaker bonus per resource. This bonus gives +18 beakers in every city having Std Ethanol, Inc. And these go through all the Academy, Observatory, Univeristy, Library modifiers to be even more than that in practise. Think how many specialists you need to get +18 beakers!!! All for a one-time fee of 89 gold and a Corp Exec. Ok, I had a lot of courthouses to cut the fee per turn per city, so that the amount of gold made at the HQ (roughly +1 base commerce per city having the corp, then multipliers like Wall St) makes up for the amount lost at the city (about -6 commerce per city) and even turns a profit!!!. Do this right and you will kick azz in research, and get rich doing it. At end-game, I make 2488 beakers per turn and thus can research something like Fusion (19500 beakers) in 8 turns. Thats pretty good, and way ahead of the AI rates. And thats without setting any of my production powerhouses to building research, and running at 60% research. Thats nice because like specialists, the bonus isn't so sensitive to the slider, so you can do whatever you want with the slider and still beat everyone in research. This, btw, is the first time Ive ever made any intentional practical use out of a corporation. So I learned an awful lot!
They fit my space race goal excellently, and Std Eth is a great tech corp depending of course on what kinds of resources are out there.View attachment 188055View attachment 188059View attachment 188056
But as it turns out, the way I actually won didnt need them
1865AD, Gilga votes for me to win Diplo victory. Wow. It wasnt what I was aiming for, but Ill take a win at (nerfed) Immortal level whenever I can get it. This is my first win above Emperor level. EVER! Highest XOTM score ever, too. And now I wont ever play adventurer saves anymore (OK, maybe if we get up to Deity again but probably not).
View attachment 188053View attachment 188054View attachment 188057View attachment 188058
Comments: I never built a single Cossack (tanks and infantry are better), nor a single Research Inst (never got to Superconductors). Totally useless UU and UB, from my view (though I had been hoping the UB would boost me in my goal of a space win). Cheap forges and free Combat I promotions, OTOH, are very useful indeed, so Stalins traits mesh nicely with my play style.
Self-evaluation: What are the reasons behind this success? (No particular order)
Spoiler :
What could I do better?
Spoiler :
Results & score
Spoiler :
Harbourboy
Deity
Typical. Everyone else finds immortal level to be a piece of cake except me............
Don't worry, you are on the steep part of the learning curve. I joined the forum when I was Noble level trying to get to Prince. Now I'm comfortable with Monarch, and can win maybe 25% on Emperor. I thought Immortal was beyond my reach.
Not exactly a piece of cake for me. It was a tough struggle and I think my space race would have been pretty close with Gilga. Usually on Emperor, I am competitive until about 1000AD, and then am too far behind to fight wars effectively or even tech at a good enough rate to get any trades. This time I just avoided the collapse - and I had a lot of luck with the wars. I think this map made it easier than it normally is on Immortal level... but I don't think it made it easy.
I still suck at espionage. Hopefully I pick up some tips here. I'm tempted to try a few games where I #1 focus on espionage... if I ever find the time.
Yamps
Deity
@kcd_swede
Nice game, congratulations!
P.S Looking forward to SGOTM 8!
Nice game, congratulations!
P.S Looking forward to SGOTM 8!
@kcd_swede
Nice game, congratulations!
P.S Looking forward to SGOTM 8!
Thanks! I couldn't have done it w/o everything I learned with the Unusual Suspects from SGOTM07.
GG kcd_swede, and nice writeup. Congrats on the first Immortal win
Thanks! Had to write it all down since I was so happy (and wanted to cement it in my memory to prepare for the probably Deity game BOTM coming up - so I can give it a more serious effort than the last one).
Ah, I must've made it too easy for everyone else (and you clearly just had very bad luck
) Perhaps I should make sure there are no resources at all for miles around in the deity game coming up, just in the interests of making sure it's not too easy...
Don't worry Harbourboy, you weren't the only one. I didn't really want to bother with a write up of my game because there weren't really any good points. I was on Adventurer, settled in place and built a settler first, then sent it out to get killed by barbs. I think the barbs killed the first warrior I built as well. Eventually I got a second and third city but Cyrus took them off me pretty quickly. For some reason I kept going to the end though.
then sent it out to get killed by barbs. I think the barbs killed the first warrior I built as well. Eventually I got a second and third city but Cyrus took them off me pretty quickly. For some reason I kept going to the end though.Similar threads
