[BTS] News: BOTM 196 - Gandhi, Prince, Always Peace - Starts 17th June

[DynamicSpirit]

You've also suggested that 1S is possibly a resource. I know that starting spots always have X amount of resources. Is that number 4? Why do you think that resource is in 1S as opposed to the other squares. Presumably @Powerfaker is hoping this is a late game mineral given his comment that this would be superior for space victory. Wouldn't this be more likely in the surrounding hills?

I'd love some opinions on why these spots are better. If I was avoiding the coast I would have though 1S1W was superior as the fat cross would pick up the grassland tiles on the western edge of the fat cross.
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1S is is pure grassland - one of the few visible tiles that has neither a unit nor a forest on it. Many players will view such unforested spots as more likely to have a resource on them because experience shows that the random map generator is much less likely (or with some map types, will not) put certain resources under forests. However it's an educated guess, not a certain assumption - not least because, as @Noble Zarkon rightly points out, GOTM maps are often hand-edited by the mapmaker, and we may well choose to do things that the automatic map generator wouldn't do.

The other point is that if you want to go 1SW, you lose a turn moving, which basically (to a fair approximation) sets your entire game back one turn - so you'd better be getting something good to make up for that. Moving 1S costs you nothing in that regard as you can settle the same turn.

 

[Fine_Distinction]

Previous reading had suggested that being 1 space back from the coast was a poor decision as you lost some of your fat cross to water but didnt gain the benefit of being coastal.
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Hi, I am not an expert, but this is probably why I understand very well your position

There is indeed a lot of advice like this here on CFC - and as a beginning player I was following it for a long time, prioritizing coastal capitol locations, going workboat first often, etc.

However, once my game improved, I realized there is not that much benefit to being coastal - typically. As everything else, it is situational, I am not saying playing Ragnar or other maritime civ, or on a water-heavy map when you are determined to build the Great Lighthouse anyway, etc, Colossus is also making working coast a bit more appealing.

But roughly speaking - there is not that much you can do to improve coastal tiles, even less with ocean. In this specific example other than abstract "do no sacrifice being coastal" benefit - I do not see a single reason to go to coast. And a lot of reasons not to:

- not a single seafood resource (good coastal cities would typically have 2-3, I very rarely settle a coastal city w/o at least 1, unless running trade-route economy with TGL or other highly strategic reasons)
- we do not even have technologies to work water tiles - and currently not a good reason to research them
- your capital would often be what people here call "bureau capital" - meaning that you try to get Civil Service early to switch to bureaucracy civic asap and get +50% commerce & +50% hammer bonus - but in capitol only. Again, such a bonus will be worth much more for cottage. And also later in game (e.g. going for a space win) you can use land tiles to produce a lot of hammers with workshops. The amount of hammers you can get from coast is pitifull - the only option is Moai, +1h normally, +2h with golden age. So, imho, capitol especially *should not* be coastal, there is typically less benefits here than potentially for other cities.
- as others mentioned, you are loosing a turn. Not such a big deal on prince, but you should be gaining something in return

hth, FD

EDIT: corrected Gandhi traits

 

[Xcalibrator]

If you're talking about this game/India, Gandhi is Spiritual and Philosophical, not Financial.

 

[Fine_Distinction]

If you're talking about this game/India, Gandhi is Spiritual and Philosophical, not Financial.

thanks, that is true, corrected

 

[LANCE1313]

Thank you @Fine_Distinction and @DynamicSpirit. Your answers clarified a lot.

 

[Powerfaker]

You've also suggested that 1S is possibly a resource. I know that starting spots always have X amount of resources. Is that number 4? Why do you think that resource is in 1S as opposed to the other squares. Presumably @Powerfaker is hoping this is a late game mineral given his comment that this would be superior for space victory. Wouldn't this be more likely in the surrounding hills?

By gambling I meant I would hope it's NOT a resource when you settle there. You don't want to discover you've settled on horse/copper/iron. That would be a waste of a strong tile.

I should explain myself a bit more maybe.
I would agree that any spot that keeps the 3 food resources is good of course.
Another consideration is that this is an Always Peace game where you may need to expand quickly before sites are lost to the competition. Therefore it could be desirable to stay near forest. And moving W looses forests.
Then the ideal capital works lots of cottages (with bureaucracy/oxford etc), so the more (green) landtiles the better. 1S = more land, though you cannot see yet if this adds good land. If it's brown or worse then better SIP because of the resource chance on that tile.
If you move the capital to the coast you do it for seafood or a better shot at the GLH.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

If you move the capital to the coast you do it for seafood or a better shot at the GLH.

I would agree with that. Would also add that, if I did decide to build the great lighthouse, Prince is a low enough difficulty that it would probably be safe-ish to build it in a 2nd or 3rd city. And with the always peace option, I'd probalby prefer to build any high-culture-producing wonders in cities on the AI's borders - coz there aren't too many other ways to get land.

Actually this gives an interesting conundrum. I want to grab as much land as early as possible, which suggests not building any early wonders because I'll want the hammers for settlers. But at the same time, I can't capture wonders if the AI builds them, and the culture from things like stonehenge are actually going to be more useful here than in a regular game. Maybe the solution is, in part, to whip settlers and use wonder-building to let the cities grow to whippable size - seeing as we won't need many units.

The land grab might actually be a reason for denying open borders to nearby AIs - to stop them walking through my land to settle - depending of course on how the map geography pans out.