News: COTM 28 Pre-Game Discussion

[ainwood]

COTM 28: England

Civilization: England
Rivals: 6 pre-selected.
Barbarians: Restless
Difficulty: Emperor
Land Form: Archepelago, 80% ocean, standard map.
Geology:3 billion years old, Temperate, normal.

Conquest-Class Bonuses:

1. Start with a galley and an extra settler

Predator-Class Equalisers:

1. AI cost factor reduced to 7.
2. Barb attack bonus removed.

 

[DBear]

I won for the first time on emperor in CotM14, featuring England in an archipelago. Lessee--only 6 opponents? 80% ocean, we're probably alone this time. And which is it, 3 or 5 million years (or you could split the difference )

 

[Abegweit]

This reminds me of COTM 2, where I made the mistake of settling the peninsula tip instead of heading inland. I think I am going to be bullheaded and do the same thing again I'll wait to see the minimap and the starting bonuses and handicaps before making a final decision but I would be surprised to see that it changed anything. Some differences between this game and that one:

* it was continents while this is archi, 80% water
* the civ was agricultural
* moving the worker could gain additional info; it won't here

All of these differences militate against moving. So, for that matter, does the 3 bil age (although this is a small point). So I think I'll settle in place and may well follow through by joining the worker after improving the sugar. It will take some number-crunching to decide that though.

It may may worthwhile to pull a Mapmaking sling. I think that there is some chance of getting the Republic slingshot after Mapmaking, though. It's too early to decide this now; it depends on the opponents and the map. Certainly we start by researching writing at max.

 

[klarius]

There's absolutely no reason to hurry to map making. Seafaring curraghs should be enough to get all contacts, so map making can be bought at an appropriate time.
If there's no new intelligence from the worker, my build order will be curragh-warrior-curragh-settler and science full steam to republic slingshot.

 

[Abegweit]

The reason for going Map making first is not to get contacts; it is to get off the island. I am not giving away Writing until I have started Philo. If this hampers expansion, MM has to come before CoL.

It may not. We may have a fairly large island in which case we can just REX. We may have a rival in which case an archer rush would be attractive. If we are stuck in the mountains and desert, though, getting off the island is higher priority than the slingshot.

As I said, it depends on the map.

I agree with your build order.

 

[klarius]

Well, I see already that we can build 2 more cities. That's enough in this low food location until the slingshot (which should come around 1400).

 

[Abegweit]

I rather doubt you'll get a 1400 slingshot out of three pathetic cities. That's more typical of ten good ones. And you're not going to want to revolt anyway since the unit costs would be crushing.

The main advantage of going MM first is to get off the rock and with only three junk cities, you're going to want to. The advantage of Republic first is that the AI helps you with research. Your revolt may actually come later if you slingshot first.

Actually, I'm kinda tempted to finish this one with swords and 'pults (swords are better than horses on arch and can be upgraded from warriors). Go MM slingshot, get a GA from the GLH and go to war.

We'll see. It depends what we've learned by the time writing comes in.

 

[Vegasgustan]

Oh well, what can you do?

I don't know why, but I never do well with our lady Elizabeth.

I'll settle in place unless worker shows anything worth anything.

Build order will certainly be a curagh first, then warrior, then settler.

We shall see what happens, not sure on a Vic condition yet...maybe get silly and go for a diplomatic. I never care about my Jason score anyway and I hate going for conquest or domination vics...they go so fast and don't allow for any interesting elements to present themselves.

In fact, I think there should be two seperate scoring systems. One, for the doms and cons and the other for every other type of vic condition. Anyone with me? Nope, just me...OH WELL. It was worth mentioning.

 

[archphoenix]

how about let settler wait 1 turn and worker n,ne to see whether something interesting?

 

[azzaman333]

For the first time ever in a GOTM, i will go for a wander with my starting settler.

Can anyone give me some hints or tips on what i should be looking for while wandering?

 

[Abegweit]

You want to look for food and fresh water. If you find the latter, I would view that as strong evidence that Ainwood has modified the map. There is almost none under these settings.

 

[Nilson]

England on Emperor will be a good challenge for me, monarch I can win but emperor is the next level .

I want to use the worker to scout and if this is all on the island than settle in place. Research will be the slingshot for Map Making and maby I will go for the GLH. So the sea can be exploxed more savely.

 

[Abegweit]

As Klarius pointed out earlier, the seas can be explored quite safely with our curraghs. The main reason for building the GLH would be to get a GA, although the extra movement and access to sea tiles is obviously useful. I have some doubt that we will get a suitable location for building it but, if we do, it could well be worth it.

If you are monarch-level player, you'll have no trouble staying ahead of the AI in this one. It is terrible at water maps. Just get out a few curraghs for contacts.

 

[Nilson]

For contacts I will use (early) curraghs.

But for transport of units, Galleys with the GHL will be very nice. If there is no ocean to be crossed than the GHL is not needed like is mentioned.

 

[I. Larkin]

If we are alone on Island we have nothing to prebuild Lighthouse. However klarius "slingshot" to Republic looks very attractive. This is dilemma... How you estimate both Republic + Lighthouse?? How deep we will have to go at tech tree?

 

[Abegweit]

As said earlier, contacts won't be a problem whether we are alone on the island or not. It will be easy enough to trade for Masonry if that's your game. The more serious worry is that we will have no reasonable place to build the Lighthouse. There sure isn't one at the start and 80% arch starts can be absolutely terrible so there is no reason to think that there's anything better on the other side of the hill.

The one saving grace is that the AI is so bad at dealing with them. As such, the game is perfectly winnable with nothing but what you see in the picture.

 

[klarius]

The Lighthouse is really secondary. If we don't have the production to build it, just skip it for now.
The first important thing is to learn how the map looks like.
Two 3-move curraghs, should get you very far with that. But you may want to build a few more.
They have to start early, so they do most exploration before barb galleys appear.
For techs, you need nothing else but writing-CoL-philosophy. Everything else up to the last few AA techs can be bought.
After the slingshot one should have a good estimate what techs are still needed and what resources are available.

All this is just the general experience with archipelago maps. If we need suicide curraghs to even get off our islands and have bad RNG, the tech trading may be delayed a bit. But still seafaring curraghs have only 25% chance to sink. If 2 don't do it 4 or 5 should.

 

[Kulko]

What Victory Conditions would you suggest under that Setup? I assume from your remarks, the AI won't be any help in research?

Greetings

Kulko

 

[klarius]

Well, if you want a high score, you need fast conquest/domination for sure.
Ultra early conquest is probably not feasible, so a conquest near the domination limit will probably score highest (not a conquest ignoring score for a few turns faster).

If you want an award, the best chances are in victory conditions not well suited for this setup. 20k and 100k come to the mind.

High research are the intermediate conditions. They still can score decently, when going to the domination limit fast. And they are well suited for England's traits, so the AI is not really needed.

 

[Abegweit]

I've been playing a few starts on these settings and one surprising thing I've noticed is that, without fresh water, despotism is a pretty good govt. Without the ability to irrigate, very few tiles are affected by the despo penalty. Furthermore, many more tiles are going to be useless than normal. So your cities are going to be small. This means that the free unit support more than makes up for the additional commerce from Republic. A govt switch should therefore come much later than normal.

Other observations:

* If you go for the Republic slingshot (and I suppose you should even if you don't switch) you'll have no problem getting it. Depending on how bad the start is, it could come as late as 900 BC but you'll still get it.
* Locations suitable for building the GLH are hard to come by. Furthermore sparing a city for this purpose comes at a heavy cost, because you will have so few of them.
* Try not to build cities on grass. There are few enough tiles you can work without wasting them.
* The cases where you want MM early are fairly rare but they exist.

For some reason, I seem to share an island with Cleo three times out of four. If there's another civ, it's usually Alex. Odd.