News: GOTM81 Pre-Game Discussion

[civ_steve]

GOTM 81 Pre-Game Discussion

There was a request somewhat recently to run a civ with a late-era UU. This should give you something to sink your teeth into: Germany, and the AI are at Emperor level!

We're starting at the earliest tomorrow night; the end date will be adjusted accordingly.

Civilization: Germany
Rivals: 7, preset
Barbarians: Restless
Difficulty: Emperor
Land Form: Continents, 70% ocean, Standard map.
Geology: 3 billion years old, Normal, Cold

Conquest-Class Bonuses:

1. Free Pottery
2. 3 Bonus Spears
3. 100 extra Gold

Predator-Class Challenges:

1. No BronzeWorking
2. AI get a bonus Pike to start
3. AI get 2 Extra Bonus Unit Support, and 1 extra Bonus Unit Support per city

A reminder: do not post any game information to this thread after you have downloaded the save file. Absolutely no spoiler information for this or any GOTM is to be posted in this thread!

 

[eldar]

Nice start, but 10 turns to chop that darned forest Can we have Persia back plz?

I see no real reason not to settle in place, but move the worker first - the question is, where?

Do we waste 10 turns chopping the forest off the bat? Or wait 'til we have pottery? I'm thinking the latter, in which case the worker goes to the BG first.

Research will be Pottery first regardless, BW and WC are the worst starting techs because they're the two the AIs will always go for first.

 

[AutomatedTeller]

Ironically, germany is also a great civ for an early archer rush

Restless barbs mean targets for promotion, as well, and emperor AI's will tend to build cities fast.

 

[Lanzelot]

Thanks, civ_steve, exactly what I've been looking for!

Again there's the question of what do we do about our GA. If we go for space, it may be a good idea to kept the GA till later and then use a tank to speed up the final spaceship parts?!

I also think keeping the game forest around for a while to use its great production potential and then choping it later into a granery is best?!

When would be the best time for an archer rush, right away, or after first completing the first ring of cities?

Cheers, Lanzelot

 

[Flak509]

Ive seen alot worse positions to start, id settle there atleast itll be a 12 city and plains to generate shields since its Despotism anyway and the game for early shields.
With Germany you gotta do domination its the only way i mean Panzers! c'on

 

[Chamnix]

I think I'll be moving the worker right to the game forest for an immediate chop - food always comes first. Build order will probably be something like warrior, warrior, settler (aided by the chop).

Again there's the question of what do we do about our GA. If we go for space, it may be a good idea to kept the GA till later and then use a tank to speed up the final spaceship parts?!

For a space game, I find that the GA is usually best at the beginning of the Industrial Age to keep up the research pace. Building spaceship parts doesn't really need the Golden Age once you have railroads, factories, and power plants. Maybe start the GA by building Newton's after capturing a military wonder?

 

[Spoonwood]

With Germany you gotta do domination its the only way i mean Panzers!

This almost tempts me to play for the 20K and post some screenies which basically say "hey look... I built The Sistine Chapel in 15-20 turns *without a pre-build*." But, we have a Vanilla/PTW game and not a Conquests one, so that seems kind of silly.

 

[stvnjsph]

This will be a challenge, the past couple of GOTM at regent were more my speed. The worker to the BG to mine and settle in place, agreed. Build first three cities to the W, N or NW, and S or SW to avoid having to keep crossing the river and tributary. 3 warriors, worker, settler.

 

[AutomatedTeller]

If you are going to try to grow the city, chop the forest right away, unless settling shows a cow or wheat in the fat cross. 10 shields for the granary is not worth waiting to get the faster growth.

 

[axehaxe]

Ouch! This game looks very challenging! Should be glad that the difficulty is only emperor and not like deity on top of all the obstacles that are already present! Why?

1) Germany cannot have a golden age until the Late industrial age
2) Germany is not agricultural nor industrious. There is no guarantee of fast expansion.
3) The powerful unique unit comes very late in the game when the game is close to over.
4) Continents is a difficult map setting.
5) That deer is not free and that's the only immediate food bonus. You have to free it by chopping the woods.

If you take predator class, this will become a Sid level game

 

[PaperBeetle]

If you take predator class, this will become a Sid level game

We lose free Bronze (which is the first research for most AI anyway, and therefore an easy tech to buy) and the AI get an extra pike? That's about as soft as predator bonuses get. The extra AI unit support makes predator a big help to anyone thinking of playing 20k, as it will delay the point at which the AI turns its attention to wonder building.
For a standard early medieval GA, I would suggest building the Glib and Leonardo, but there is plenty of variation possible. The fact that we are both Militaristic and playing PtW means that getting wonders shouldn't be too hard.

 

[Spoonwood]

Axehaxe,

Well, I guess the game might work out difficult for you, but I might as well comment.

[/QUOTE] 1) Germany cannot have a golden age until the Late industrial age [/QUOTE]

If PTW/Vanilla wonders work like Conquests wonders, build The Great Library and then The Great Wall, or Sun Tzu's Art of War, or Leo's Workshop for a GA. Strictly speaking though, you don't need the G. A.

2) Germany is not agricultural nor industrious. There is no guarantee of fast expansion.

People win Emperor games with 5 cities or even 1 city. You can also expand through conquest.

3) The powerful unique unit comes very late in the game when the game is close to over.

Not if you shoot for space or histographic. If you shoot for space and use a panzer to trigger your G. A. you have more beakers when tech costs the most and more shields towards research labs/SETI/U. N.... Vanilla/PTW doesn't have The Internet, right?

 

[AutomatedTeller]

if we were to lose WC, then Germany would be tougher on Emperor.

I may build warrior/warrior/rax/archers and go kill - I dunno.

 

[LowEndUserII]

Playing along with a goal to just survive I`m very interested to see how some of you experieced players handle the ( IMO) tough to play Germans.

 

[Lanzelot]

In my early days of Civ I've played the Germans a lot and always liked the combination of Militaristic&Scientific: enough libraries to keep up the tech pace and enough barracks to build those up-to-date units in good quality.

Chamnix' suggestion of when and how to trigger the GA sounds indeed best for a space game. So then, when would the Panzer be useful? In domination/conquest games the game should be over by the time Panzers are available (at least if you want a decent score... ). For 20K you want an earlier GA as well, to get some of those MA great wonders with a good multiplier.
Perhaps in a 100K game the Panzer-triggered GA comes at the right point of time to raise the cash for the necessary rushing of Libs/Temples/Universities/Cathedrals?!

And in a diplomatic game the Panzers may be useful to eliminate those who won't vote for you...

I'm tempted to try something like space or 20K, but my experience from GOTM80 has shown that 20K requires a lot of playing time (even though it's really one of the most interesting victory conditions, that I can say even after my first try). Not enough time do it again right now, so I'll opt for domination, which seems to give the shortest games (and good scores).

I agree with axehaxe that this starting position is kind of tough for an emperor game. If there isn't another food bonus close by, it'll be a slow start.

 

[civ_steve]

I agree with axehaxe that this starting position is kind of tough for an emperor game. If there isn't another food bonus close by, it'll be a slow start.

You've got a +2 food square, lots of rivers, lots of shield producing plains spaces, and some forests to chop, not to mention whatever else might be revealed! The only thing you're missing is another food, perhaps some more BG's or a luxury within sight! If you want to see a REALLY tough start ... check out GOTM7.

The extra AI unit support makes predator a big help to anyone thinking of playing 20k, as it will delay the point at which the AI turns its attention to wonder building.

A subtle point but quite accurate. I usually prefer to delay AI Wonder Building on Predator in this manner to lessen the strategy of "let the AI build the Wonder, and I'll take it from them"; may have to rethink this if Predator players start playing 20K games en masse.

 

[AutomatedTeller]

But 20K games are so much fun in PTW with germany, if you archer rush, you might even be able to rush the pyramids... if you beat up some barbs and get lucky in an early war.

 

[LTJG Perry]

Starting late, but I have the next few days totally free.
I want to try 100K , maybe 20K if the site looks really nice with BGs and stuff
and I'm going to try to use about a dozen of the suggestions on this thread.