Next turn -3750bc

[Duke of Marlbrough]

In the early game production and trade are paramount. Since we most likely won't have the cash to rush buy our units, those extra few shields can make a huge difference.

I agree, that if a city is going to built on a hill, it is a huge waste to not have it be mined.

Since this is something that cannot be done after the city is built, it should be decided to be done ahead of time or another site chosen. If others don't feel that the time should be spent on preparing the hill, then perhaps another city site should be chosen.

Perhaps the settler should move East onto the forest and build there? The forest can alwasy be irrigated out from under it later. It will minimize the overlap between the cities, and still allow a third city on the grassland square in the North point of the continent. It will only have 2 specials, but that also means that if there is a third, that it can be used by another city.

 

[Shahadet]

Originally posted by Duke of Marlbrough
Perhaps the settler should move East onto the forest and build there? The forest can alwasy be irrigated out from under it later. It will minimize the overlap between the cities, and still allow a third city on the grassland square in the North point of the continent. It will only have 2 specials, but that also means that if there is a third, that it can be used by another city.

Hey that was my idea, I already suggested that as a compromise

Whats the big deal with one city having a couple of extra shields anyway? What with the time it would take to set up the mining two or even three more cities could have been founded and producing. As far as I can tell the math works against this mined city idea. The perfection of one city site should not stand in the way of actually creating more cities, especially seeing as the hill site is good enough without being mined. It has 3 specials! (one of which we don't know what it is yet) Stop being greedy.

It will take the settler !ten turns! to add !1! shield to the hill. This production will be increased to 2 extra shields with monarchy. I do not consider the loss of one (and eventually two) shields a major issue. In ten turns a settler could build a link road between two cities and founded another city. At this stage in the game it seems like a massive waste in settler time for such smal gains. That 1 shield extra given by monarchy pales in comparison to actually obtaining an early monachry government, which will not happen if time is wasted on the 'perfect hill' eden project.

I really think someone should post a poll on this as I can't see this issue being easily resolved.

 

[GenMarshall]

Military Advisor's Suggestion for the next turn

For the next Turn Cha.. ...err... ...I almost forgot that this Demogame does not have Turn chats. Please secuse me since I am used to the Civ3 DG's Turnchats .

Move the Archer 1 Tile S to crack open that Goodie hut

 

[Duke of Marlbrough]

Originally posted by Shahadet
Hey that was my idea, I already suggested that as a compromise

Then you should take it as an agreement that provides more information.

I really think someone should post a poll on this as I can't see this issue being easily resolved.

Has anyone PM'd the domestic advisor on this? That way it ensures he knows about the situation and can get a poll posted sooner. BTW, when you do PM an advisor, try to give them a link to the thread so they can find it faster.

 

[Jayne]

We definately need a poll on this!!! Nice to see everyone getting so passionate about it!

I had planned to move tomorrow, but I can wait a day to make sure everyone has a chance to vote.

My personal opinion? Change the phal to a warrior, the build a settler next. Send the archer to RF, and the new warrior to explore. Build the second city on the hill - we have the whale and fish to help support it and provide valuable income to get us going with the research. Start a warrior and settler in the second town. With the hut - as Kev said: build the city, pop the hut.

 

[Shahadet]

Originally posted by Duke of Marlbrough

Then you should take it as an agreement that provides more information.

I suppose I can just about forgive you.

 

[Leowind]

I think we definitely need a poll about this, but fwiw I would support the compromise of building at another site for now, and coming back and building a mine city on the hill later when we have the settler resources to do so (maybe)

 

[Leowind]

Science Advisor Leowind issued this statement today:

"Having reviewed the current pathetic state of affairs in regards to scientific research in our kingdom, the Office of Scientific Research is strongly urging all citizens to support the following courses of action. 1) Serf in Regia Fanatica should be moved from land to ocean square until such time as 2) our settlers move W W and road the shielded grassland square, at which time the serf should be moved to the roaded square. At that time, depending on results of further exploration, the settler can return to the hill site and found a city, move to the Northern green and found a city, or move to newly discovered city site to the South and/or East. The only acceptable alternative to the Office of Scientific Research would be to build a city immediately on either the hill (unmined) or the forest directly East of the settler's current location. Should enough Trade to generated from this move to significantly improve our research rate, then leaving Regia Fanatic serf on land would be acceptable.

Furthermore, the Archer should NOT enter the small village to it's South, as any technology advances we would gain from such a move would only futher delay our research rate, which is already in grave danger of falling well below even adequate. Once Monarchy is achieved, we can explore the village then. My fellow citizens, we must find more efficient methods of achieving our goals, and only scientific advances will lead us to greater efficency. We must support the sciences!"

 

[funxus]

I've read this thread and read the PM from Shahadet and will make the poll soon.

I'm not really for founding on the hill unless it's mined, but do think we could plan the spot for a future city. Since we're in despotism, the specials will be cut down quite a lot, so such a city wouldn't grow very fast and not have as high a production as it could have later on. Sorry Shahadet, I rather plan for a good future than temporarily good cities.

Another thing about RF, we could move a the worker between two squares every turn(maybe sea and buffalo), too both increase production and science a little and not just one a lot.

 

[TimTheEnchanter]

Originally posted by Leowind
Science Advisor Leowind issued this statement today:

"...the Archer should NOT enter the small village to it's South, as any technology advances we would gain from such a move would only futher delay our research rate, which is already in grave danger of falling well below even adequate. Once Monarchy is achieved, we can explore the village then..."

I must disagree with our esteemed science advisor regarding a hut scroll being bad for our primary science goals.

Popping the hut is not at all likely to slow our advance to monarchy, which should be our primary scientific objective.

The hut possibilities are:
1) Barbs. The hut is too far from the Capital, so I think Barbs are in play. This is a 20% chance. If we get a barb, and they can kill the archer that would be a setback for the entire civ as we wouldn’t be able to form a 2nd city until the barb was defeated. (using the one city rule to protect the capital). This is the only outcome that can truly hurt our push to monarchy. Just a note, I’m pretty sure if the settler builds a city on either the hill or forest first, Barbs would be suppressed and a mercenary unit (probably supported) would be a 60% likelihood.

2) Not barb/not scroll (40%)- Gold can be spent rushing the warrior then settler. Mercenaries would eliminate the need to build a warrior, thus speeding our development of a settler and thus a little quicker science, although any unit is likely to be supported.

3) Scroll. Because we have a nomad, I believe there is a 40% chance of getting a scroll. If it is a scroll, the probability of techs is approximately as follows:
Ceremonial Burial ~10% if you use Samson’s theory, ~20% if you use Solo’s theory, give or take a few points
Code of Laws ~3%
Currency ~8%
Horseback Riding ~16%
Map Making ~10%
Masonry ~1%
Mysticism ~10%
Pottery ~10%
Warrior Code ~21%
Writing ~1%.

Getting Ceremonial burial would allow us to use the current beakers toward the next tech. Getting CoL would still not give us a direct shot at Monarchy, but would put us one step closer, needing only the off-track tech. However, even if we don’t get something that puts us closer to monarchy, it can help us. Getting any other tech would give us our off-track tech and allow the direct Cer-CoL-Mon path without having to research the extra tech. The only penalty would be the delay in getting writing and the carrying cost of a tech we don’t need right away (especially if it’s crap like warrior code). But ANY tech from that hut puts us closer to monarchy, which should be the most important goal.

If the settler is going to build a city in the next two turns, it might be worth it to explore SW one turn (thus revealing the special) with the archer and form the city on the 2nd turn before popping the hut, just to eliminate the possibility of barbs. But otherwise, I would not delay popping the hut.

 

[Jayne]

iirc, you don't get barbs until after 16 turns. We've only played 5. Plus, someone said you don't get barbs from huts within city radii. We can build the hill city before the archer moves, making the hut inside a city radius. I think by popping the hut we have nothing to lose, and everything to gain!

 

[Leowind]

The delay in science I refer to is that every tech we acheive, whether by research or trading or huts, adds to the number of beakers needed to research the next tech. That is, maybe it takes X turns to research currently, but pop a tech, and now it's X + Y, taking even longer to research our current tech, which would delay getting Monarchy UNLESS the tech popped happened to be the one we're researching, a small chance. There is no chance of getting barbs at this point, and an Archer should stand up well against any barbs at this stage of the game anyway, so that is not a concern at the moment, but speaking *strictly as your Science Advisor*, I would wait on popping this hut until we've achieved Monarchy or our science production has improved considerably.

 

[Leowind]

My esteemed Despotess, the people lovingly call you their "Queen," and would dearly like to make the title official. Their desire is to choose a Science Research path that will bring us to a new government form that will make more efficient use of our resources. To that end, the people have chosen--and the Office of Scientific Research fully endorses--the following research choices:

Currently Ceremonial Burial , then
Code of Laws
Writing
Monarchy

Our office is confident in this path, but should unforseen circumstances present none of these options, Pottery would be next on the list.

God speed on your next several hundred years of rule :worshp:

P.S. you might check the Alternate tech poll before you play just to be sure Writing is still winning out over Pottery. It was 6-4 just now when I checked.

 

[Jayne]

Thank you for your concise instructions, loyal citizen Professor Leowind!!

 

[Jayne]

I think most people have voted now, so I shall start playing.....

 

[Duke of Marlbrough]

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