Good point. If you want to change research, do so.
You're right about Charly. At the beginning of my turn set he had already 6 cities.
Maybe our warrior should scout the sugar area to see if it's still free.
NO-1: Tree huggers of the world unite
- Thread starter NoChildren
- Start date
You're right about Charly. At the beginning of my turn set he had already 6 cities.
Maybe our warrior should scout the sugar area to see if it's still free.
Ok I will change to alphabet then. I'll scout Ragnar's land and the SW barb area.
My mistake about the open borders, I see you opened them, but we're getting no foreign trade for some reason? I will leave Napoleon's closed until we've filled in crab city, then I will scout his land too.
Is anyone for or against switching to Hindu now? It does probably mean war with Charly sooner or later, but that's better than an unintentional war against Nap or Ragnar, who I want to use to attack the more prosperous civs in the west.
My mistake about the open borders, I see you opened them, but we're getting no foreign trade for some reason? I will leave Napoleon's closed until we've filled in crab city, then I will scout his land too.
Is anyone for or against switching to Hindu now? It does probably mean war with Charly sooner or later, but that's better than an unintentional war against Nap or Ragnar, who I want to use to attack the more prosperous civs in the west.
Ok I played 20 turns until the completion of Alphabet, and we also have a settler ready to found before Refar hits enter. I did not switch to Hinduism yet, but I think it's definitely worth considering in the next set, along with building more military.
The Dutch empire is glorious!
We've been doing a nice job grabbing cities, so I focused on infrastructure this set. On the first turn I whip a couple workers and the long delayed lighthouse in the Hague. I build a couple more workers over the following turns. We now have libraries in Amsterdam, the Hague, and Utrecht. Our southern two cities have their most valuable tiles improved and connected.
Here's how our GNP looks, I caused the lowest point in my first turns, and the burst at the end is the only time we are actually researching Alphabet. (I thought I got Korea's chart too, feel free to readjust our espionage.)
I moved Tatran's settler north to found the crab city, which is easier to develop at the moment. It also lets me feel safe opening borders with Napoleon. I timed a work boat to reach it at the border pop, but we lose it eventually to the new patch's pirates.
I explored our neighbors' land, opening up trade routes in the process. Unfortunately Ragnar grabbed the sugar barb city to our SW. I had a hopeful moment when my axeman saw there was a barb archer ready to attack its lone warrior defender, but Ragnar held the city.
Here's the rest of his land (and I found Egypt west of him)...
Near the end of my set, he grabbed the pig from us...I had a settler 3 tiles away heading there.
My apologies for losing the food for silk coastal city. But we have a very nice site that makes his city useless. I have a settler ready to found it now if you guys agree, along with a team of workers to connect it and improve the pig. I would suggest converting to Hinduism before the borders pop. We can still grab the silk with the next settler (or found the nearer coastal site instead).
Here is Napoleon's land...
I prefer to let him keep his land and focus our military efforts west. Notice the barb galleys. I have a galley for defense in our capital, and an extra workboat ready next turn. We need to whip a galley in the Hague too, and ultimately Metal Casting for triremes and the Colossus (but Egypt has MC already so this may be lost cause).
Diplomatically I think we want to use Napoleon and Ragnar as puppets against Charlie first, and then the Jewish states. But Charlie doesn't know he's supposed to hate us yet....
He also got a 'heroes of the sword' event for promoted swords, and has protective archers, so he isn't an ideal enemy by any means.
(Btw, we have some mines of questionable legality, one is seen above. Are we saying forest can't spread diagonally so they're ok?)
I realize now I forgot to cancel Napoleon's free clam, we can use it to buy wheat instead if we choose. Here is the tech situation - Korea got Alphabet before us, but I declined to trade the religious techs...
Ragnar is willing to declare war on anyone, but we can't buy him with just writing. I have the tech set on Monarchy again since we have beakers invested, maybe we can use that to trade for Math (I haven't thought much about this yet honestly). We are in good shape in terms of happiness right now, but there is some whip stacking. What I really want is Metal Casting though.
-the site won't let me upload my save, I'll edit it in soon-
The Dutch empire is glorious!
We've been doing a nice job grabbing cities, so I focused on infrastructure this set. On the first turn I whip a couple workers and the long delayed lighthouse in the Hague. I build a couple more workers over the following turns. We now have libraries in Amsterdam, the Hague, and Utrecht. Our southern two cities have their most valuable tiles improved and connected.
Here's how our GNP looks, I caused the lowest point in my first turns, and the burst at the end is the only time we are actually researching Alphabet. (I thought I got Korea's chart too, feel free to readjust our espionage.)
I moved Tatran's settler north to found the crab city, which is easier to develop at the moment. It also lets me feel safe opening borders with Napoleon. I timed a work boat to reach it at the border pop, but we lose it eventually to the new patch's pirates.
I explored our neighbors' land, opening up trade routes in the process. Unfortunately Ragnar grabbed the sugar barb city to our SW. I had a hopeful moment when my axeman saw there was a barb archer ready to attack its lone warrior defender, but Ragnar held the city.
Here's the rest of his land (and I found Egypt west of him)...
Near the end of my set, he grabbed the pig from us...I had a settler 3 tiles away heading there.
My apologies for losing the food for silk coastal city. But we have a very nice site that makes his city useless. I have a settler ready to found it now if you guys agree, along with a team of workers to connect it and improve the pig. I would suggest converting to Hinduism before the borders pop. We can still grab the silk with the next settler (or found the nearer coastal site instead).Here is Napoleon's land...
I prefer to let him keep his land and focus our military efforts west. Notice the barb galleys. I have a galley for defense in our capital, and an extra workboat ready next turn. We need to whip a galley in the Hague too, and ultimately Metal Casting for triremes and the Colossus (but Egypt has MC already so this may be lost cause).
Diplomatically I think we want to use Napoleon and Ragnar as puppets against Charlie first, and then the Jewish states. But Charlie doesn't know he's supposed to hate us yet....
He also got a 'heroes of the sword' event for promoted swords, and has protective archers, so he isn't an ideal enemy by any means.
(Btw, we have some mines of questionable legality, one is seen above. Are we saying forest can't spread diagonally so they're ok?)
I realize now I forgot to cancel Napoleon's free clam, we can use it to buy wheat instead if we choose. Here is the tech situation - Korea got Alphabet before us, but I declined to trade the religious techs...
Ragnar is willing to declare war on anyone, but we can't buy him with just writing. I have the tech set on Monarchy again since we have beakers invested, maybe we can use that to trade for Math (I haven't thought much about this yet honestly). We are in good shape in terms of happiness right now, but there is some whip stacking. What I really want is Metal Casting though.
-the site won't let me upload my save, I'll edit it in soon-
Refar
Deity
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- Apr 10, 2005
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- 4,608
Raganr and Napoleon are Close and Agressive Jerks and and keeping them happy might be more important than rameses. Then again - they will backstab at some point anyway.
Another "Religious" question is - do we have a useful civic to run if we switch religion ? We dont seem to have Monotheism.
Another "Religious" question is - do we have a useful civic to run if we switch religion ? We dont seem to have Monotheism.
I especially think it's important to keep Ragnar happy if we found the aggressive city I'm hoping for. We could maybe gift writing, but I think having that city means we have to be Hindu or else fight Ragnar. On the other hand being Hindu means we have to fight Charlie.
I was thinking the same thing about Monotheism, maybe get that with Monarchy? Maybe being Hindu will let us trade Alpha for Math with Napoleon without fear of him spreading around. But switching does have a lot of downsides as Tatran points out.
I was thinking the same thing about Monotheism, maybe get that with Monarchy? Maybe being Hindu will let us trade Alpha for Math with Napoleon without fear of him spreading around. But switching does have a lot of downsides as Tatran points out.
NoChildren
Warlord
I say definitely found the city!
it'll have a bunch of food and also give us ivory and with both nappy and ragnar as hinduists i think we're a pretty strong block.
i say we make this a real challenge, let's lose the mine!
Refar
Deity
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Forest does not spread on diagonales, so untill it spreads to one of the 4 tiles adjacent and non-diagonal to the mine, the mine is not illegal i think. But i can pillage it if we choose to.
I got it btw. but will take about 12 hours till i can play.
I got it btw. but will take about 12 hours till i can play.
NoChildren
Warlord
ok, didn't know that... so i guess it's not against the variant, but i still wouldn't mind the challenge...
so go with what the group wants...
After thinking about it I am against Metal Casting. We have no way to get it quickly, and Ramesses already has it and is spamming wonders. By the time we get it the pirate threat will be over. We will found silk city, fogbusting our east coast, and we need to keep a warrior or galley stationed to fogbust the ice cape north of Middelburg.
Some possible plans:
-finish Monarchy in ~10 turns for trading material. HR isn't necessary right now though.
-trade Monarchy for OR and meditation. We have most of the buildings we need at the moment, but we want a couple missionaries to ensure Ragnar stays Hindu.
-gift Ragnar Writing
-switch to Hinduism before the new city's borders expand
-trade Alpha for Math with Napoleon, begin Construction
-bribe Ragnar to war with Charlie for Alpha and maybe Monarchy
-build army of swords, and later cats, phants, and declare when Charlie is weaker.
or
-maybe switch to Hindu, maybe not. We want to avoid war in this plan
-switch to Currency next, but don't begin researching until we trade for Math somehow for the prerequisite bonus.
-build market in capital, run merchants and scientists after the prophet appears at the beginning of NoChildren's set.
-trade for Calendar which should be available soon
Some possible plans:
-finish Monarchy in ~10 turns for trading material. HR isn't necessary right now though.
-trade Monarchy for OR and meditation. We have most of the buildings we need at the moment, but we want a couple missionaries to ensure Ragnar stays Hindu.
-gift Ragnar Writing
-switch to Hinduism before the new city's borders expand
-trade Alpha for Math with Napoleon, begin Construction
-bribe Ragnar to war with Charlie for Alpha and maybe Monarchy
-build army of swords, and later cats, phants, and declare when Charlie is weaker.
or
-maybe switch to Hindu, maybe not. We want to avoid war in this plan
-switch to Currency next, but don't begin researching until we trade for Math somehow for the prerequisite bonus.
-build market in capital, run merchants and scientists after the prophet appears at the beginning of NoChildren's set.
-trade for Calendar which should be available soon
Refar
Deity
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- Apr 10, 2005
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- 4,608
Here were a few suggestions going in somewhat different directions...
I agree with the need of few Missionaries to keep Ragnar Hindu. We need Meditation for that.
We could get Meditation and Math (Which we need as well - for Construction and/or Currency) from Charlie giving all we have on him (ABC, Priest, Poly) He is no ones worst enemy (it least no Worst enemy is listed) so it should not give us bad diplo carma.
The question is - do we want to give away ABC just yet - allowing more AI-AI tech trade ?
Another thing is - i dont see the urgent need to gift Writing to Ragnar (actually it goes against my personal principles, but i will of course comly, if there is a team consensus on it). Sure we might ge a diplo + of it. Or maybe not. Even if we do get some diplo + from it - do we need it that badly ? We are at same relgion, he is annoyed with Ramses and Charlie. If we keep Ragnar Hindu, we should have no problem to deal with him.
We can however give him Writing + Priest (Everyone but him and Charlie has it) to stop trading with Rameses:
It will make a stain on they relations, it might reduce the chance of Judaism spreading to Ragnar (not sure here.)
It will give us a -1 with Rameses, but he's no direct neighbour and easy to handle overall.
A major decision is Hindu or not - i think we were somewhat divided there.
I would prefer going Hindu to make Ragnar & Naps like us more.
Rameses might keep trading with us even on different religion, and WK probably as well.
Justinan and Chalie are going to snap of course.
Do we settle that Jumbo city now ? Because now "we settle silk city" popped up. Does it meant this one now, Silk next ?
I thinking we settle it.
My idea is to settle where the settler is - silk later.
Trade for Meditation for missionaries, Trade for OR if possible (And if we are going to switch Hindu) - OR would allow us to make missionaries a bit sooner as we could skip monasteries.
But hold on to ABC for the moment (We should be able to trade it for math with Naps in a few turns.)
Tehc Monarchy. Trade ABC for Math to Naps, as soon as he is willing to sell it.
I agree with the need of few Missionaries to keep Ragnar Hindu. We need Meditation for that.
We could get Meditation and Math (Which we need as well - for Construction and/or Currency) from Charlie giving all we have on him (ABC, Priest, Poly) He is no ones worst enemy (it least no Worst enemy is listed) so it should not give us bad diplo carma.
The question is - do we want to give away ABC just yet - allowing more AI-AI tech trade ?
Another thing is - i dont see the urgent need to gift Writing to Ragnar (actually it goes against my personal principles, but i will of course comly, if there is a team consensus on it). Sure we might ge a diplo + of it. Or maybe not. Even if we do get some diplo + from it - do we need it that badly ? We are at same relgion, he is annoyed with Ramses and Charlie. If we keep Ragnar Hindu, we should have no problem to deal with him.
We can however give him Writing + Priest (Everyone but him and Charlie has it) to stop trading with Rameses:
It will make a stain on they relations, it might reduce the chance of Judaism spreading to Ragnar (not sure here.)
It will give us a -1 with Rameses, but he's no direct neighbour and easy to handle overall.
A major decision is Hindu or not - i think we were somewhat divided there.
I would prefer going Hindu to make Ragnar & Naps like us more.
Rameses might keep trading with us even on different religion, and WK probably as well.
Justinan and Chalie are going to snap of course.
Do we settle that Jumbo city now ? Because now "we settle silk city" popped up. Does it meant this one now, Silk next ?
I thinking we settle it.
My idea is to settle where the settler is - silk later.
Trade for Meditation for missionaries, Trade for OR if possible (And if we are going to switch Hindu) - OR would allow us to make missionaries a bit sooner as we could skip monasteries.
But hold on to ABC for the moment (We should be able to trade it for math with Naps in a few turns.)
Tehc Monarchy. Trade ABC for Math to Naps, as soon as he is willing to sell it.
OR lets us build missionaries, don't use monastaries. Meditation isn't important now, but it's easy to get. And missionaries for the AI aren't that important, one for Ragnar's capital is sufficient. They may be nice to get the OR bonus in our new cities though.
I'm in favor of the more aggressive Hindu -> construction plan, bribing Ragnar, and attacking Charlie ourselves a few turnsets from now. I think Tatran is against Hindu but I'm not sure what his gameplan is. I think NoChildren is for Hindu but I'm not sure.
I did mean silk city with our next settler, not this one.
edit- We want to gift writing so we can bribe him with Alpha and Math. He's well behind in tech and he's going to be our ally, it doesn't hurt to give him old techs.
I'm in favor of the more aggressive Hindu -> construction plan, bribing Ragnar, and attacking Charlie ourselves a few turnsets from now. I think Tatran is against Hindu but I'm not sure what his gameplan is. I think NoChildren is for Hindu but I'm not sure.
I did mean silk city with our next settler, not this one.
edit- We want to gift writing so we can bribe him with Alpha and Math. He's well behind in tech and he's going to be our ally, it doesn't hurt to give him old techs.
Refar
Deity
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- Apr 10, 2005
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- 4,608
Yes, Meditation was 
on my part - actually i mixed up the icons, so i was under the impression no one is going to trade meditation to us... Reasoning that we probably miss a prereq (which meditation actually isn't anyway...) oh well...
Still the quaestion remains - are we willing to trade away ABC just yet (Justinian or Ramesses will want it for OR - not exactly a even trade.)
We can selftech it in probably 6 or 7 turns, so i am in favor of self teching.
I did get that you want to give Ragnar Writing se he like us more and is easier to manipulate - just not sure is it is worht it. You are right howeever, about writing beeing not that big.
Edit. Btw - does it work at all - afaik the willingness of a AI to be bribed to war depend on his diplomatic stance to us. He's willing right now. The price will not chnge if he likes us a bit more. I might be wrong tho.
on my part - actually i mixed up the icons, so i was under the impression no one is going to trade meditation to us... Reasoning that we probably miss a prereq (which meditation actually isn't anyway...) oh well...Still the quaestion remains - are we willing to trade away ABC just yet (Justinian or Ramesses will want it for OR - not exactly a even trade.)
We can selftech it in probably 6 or 7 turns, so i am in favor of self teching.
I did get that you want to give Ragnar Writing se he like us more and is easier to manipulate - just not sure is it is worht it. You are right howeever, about writing beeing not that big.
Edit. Btw - does it work at all - afaik the willingness of a AI to be bribed to war depend on his diplomatic stance to us. He's willing right now. The price will not chnge if he likes us a bit more. I might be wrong tho.
I was thinking using Monarchy to trade for OR. I agree I'd rather not trade Alpha with anyone but Nap unless it appears Wang is trading it. If Nap really won't make the Math trade (maybe building the Gardens, we could check right now in the save), ironically Charlie is the best to trade Alpha for Math I think.
To clarify on writing, he needs writing to get Alpha or Math. He needs priesthood for Monarchy. These are bigger techs that he's more willing to accept for war.
Checking save- Napoleon says 'we don't want to start trading away yet.' I'm not sure why, I thought they did that when they thought they had monopoly? Maybe he'll change his mind soon, even without us being Hindu?
To clarify on writing, he needs writing to get Alpha or Math. He needs priesthood for Monarchy. These are bigger techs that he's more willing to accept for war.
Checking save- Napoleon says 'we don't want to start trading away yet.' I'm not sure why, I thought they did that when they thought they had monopoly? Maybe he'll change his mind soon, even without us being Hindu?
Alphabet for Mathematics sounds a good plan and this leads to Construction
to get catapults + war elephants.
I'm willing to adopt Hinduism when I'm 100% sure Ragnar and Napoleon keep
running this religion. I only trust them when they are friendly.
to get catapults + war elephants.
I'm willing to adopt Hinduism when I'm 100% sure Ragnar and Napoleon keep
running this religion. I only trust them when they are friendly.
