NO-1: Tree huggers of the world unite
- Thread starter NoChildren
- Start date
Ok some micro comments. If you disagree with these or the post above please comment. I will sleep and play sometime when I wake up.
I don't believe we built too many workers, they helped get our jungle cities running quickly and we still have a lot of improvements to make, esp completing our road system. I'm going to cancel some worker builds and make some highways through Charlie's territory and the east jungle. I'm also roading the plains tile north of Rotterdam's corn, I'd prefer to keep it for flavor, but we will never ever work that tile. Also I'm building a grassland farm in Utrecht, it is safe by the diagonal spread rule.
I'm turning off research intending on Currency next- we're going no religion on turn 2 to try to trade for Construction, if unsuccessful we'll complete it ourselves. I'm going to try to raze Roskilde and capture some cities. We'll use our settler in the spot marked near Amsterdam, it can get running quickly with the shared food. I'd plan on having silk city 1N of the current Roskilde site, this also leaves room for a weaker coastal city that can build jungle cottages (but I won't found these two in my set)
I don't believe we built too many workers, they helped get our jungle cities running quickly and we still have a lot of improvements to make, esp completing our road system. I'm going to cancel some worker builds and make some highways through Charlie's territory and the east jungle. I'm also roading the plains tile north of Rotterdam's corn, I'd prefer to keep it for flavor, but we will never ever work that tile. Also I'm building a grassland farm in Utrecht, it is safe by the diagonal spread rule.
I'm turning off research intending on Currency next- we're going no religion on turn 2 to try to trade for Construction, if unsuccessful we'll complete it ourselves. I'm going to try to raze Roskilde and capture some cities. We'll use our settler in the spot marked near Amsterdam, it can get running quickly with the shared food. I'd plan on having silk city 1N of the current Roskilde site, this also leaves room for a weaker coastal city that can build jungle cottages (but I won't found these two in my set)
NoChildren
Warlord
i agree with trying to take a couple of viking cities to at least cripple ragnar. but if we can get catapults and elephants it shouldn't be that hard i think.
i'm sorry about the scientist, don't know when that could have been changed, i remember looking at amsterdam while it produced the settler and by then it was a priest, so i don't think it's been for very many turns. it's great that you noticed it though.
i'm sorry about the scientist, don't know when that could have been changed, i remember looking at amsterdam while it produced the settler and by then it was a priest, so i don't think it's been for very many turns. it's great that you noticed it though.
NoChildren
Warlord
Long post, sorry...
Ok, I start by cleaning up the Viking army near Delft. I take a slight gamble with an axe vs wounded shock chariot (75% I think), and then another axe takes care of the sword. I move the spearman to the forest covering the two axes, and whip another spear in Delft. Ragnar's other stack is a horse archer, chariot, and spear...he suicides all 3 at terrible odds.
I reassign workers to build roads to the south for Utrecht, Rotterdam, and Amsterdam, which will crank out a lot of military in the following turns (I think I prefer grass forest to cottages in Nijmegen btw). Moving units is still painfully slow, I guess I'm glad this is epic.
I move the settler north to found Leiden. The silk-rice city would be very poor short term, we don't need blocking cities at war, and sharing the rice would hurt Nijmegen. On the other hand, Amsterdam has more food than it can use right now, and Leiden can get running quickly.
On the same tile as the missionary in that shot is a pretty nice French army. You can see it in NoChildren's save. But it had stopped moving south when it encountered roadless jungle and started retreating. Once I had completed the highway I told Nap to attack a specific city and he put the army back in play. Very good call bringing Nap into the war, I'm pretty surprised he was willing.
I'm surprised in part because nothing else related to tech trades goes right in my set. I switch to no religion on turn 2, but Charlie and Nap think too few know Construction still. I delay putting research in it as long as I can before it would start costing turns, but only Wang is willing to trade, and I already sold Monotheism for 100 gold.
But at least abandoning Hindu improves relations. Justinian and Ramesses eventually go to Pleased, and Charlie and Wang go to Cautious. Nap is still Pleased. It would've really hurt if someone else attacked us right now. I successfully begged Justinian for 60 gold (near the end of the set), and trade for dye, banana, and wheat with Ramesses and him. Note that we are still in OR, costing us something like 5gpt - I didn't think it was worth losing a turn of production to switch out. We can still build missionaries w/o monastaries at least.
As far as future relations with Ragnar go, I sour them a little with this decision...
I lose a CR2 axe and a shock axe in the siege. Fortunately, we get Construction and catapults 2 turns later. No phants, we need HR. I would suggest a new city 1 north of the ruins.
The turn before the battle, Judaism spread to his capital and he converted. A shame he didn't wait 2 more turns before declaring, so we could prevent that with missionaries. There's always the option of simply capturing Nidaros before we end the war...
This screenshot jumps ahead 5 turns or so. I saved and took a very long break after the completion of Construction. Up to this point I've been collecting forces for an attack on Uppsala, and I also have a secondary army forming in the west to take Etruscan (aka the sugar barb city) which is easier to move new troops to than the distant south.
I built the spy to check on the garrisons of Viking cities, and to find units heading north (Earlier I moved an axe into the forest near Delft to deny the defensive terrain to what I thought was a lone Viking axe. A horse archer came out of the fog of war causing us to lose the axe.) The spy revealed that nearly all Viking cities are defended by two level 3 axes and an archer - I unfortunately built a few more swords before I discovered this. I'm not used to AIs using so many axes for defense.
I don't think I'm able to take Ragnar's walled, axe-defended cities without cats, so I wait as they move south. Meanwhile Nap is moving a very nice army to take Uppsala himself. I'm worried he'll either take a city we want, or give Ragnar more promotions, so I send him to the landlocked city Jelling, which is still near enough to Ragnar's core to divert his troops. Maybe we also would've wanted that city, but we can't take everything ourselves. He does take it, and a couple Viking armies heading for us go on the counterattack.
The same turn as the French victory we finally get our Prophet. I intend to fortify him to save for Divine Right, but I misclick...
We get 15 gpt right away, and Hindu spreads to another city spontaneously in the next few turns. I've already been running scientists in Hague, and I assign some in Amsterdam now too. We are able to speed up gp generation significantly by using priests, but I think useful lightbulbs are better than a golden age or super specialist right now. When we get currency we can build a market to multiply the shrine (and the commerce at our low slider) and assign merchants.
Once I get a couple cats in position, I move to Uppsala. I don't wait to bombard the wall, and we lose 2 cats, a chariot, and an axe in the siege (pretty good exchange, imo).
A general is born, and I move him south. Instructor in Rotterdam or super-medic I think are our best choices. Ragnar suicides some mounted units on the spears in Uppsala on the counterattack. I intended to stop at turn 205, but we were 1 turn from Currency and an attack on Etruscan. Sorry but I'm selfish...
This battle does not go as well as Uppsala. We lose 3 cats and 2 swords, and the victorious units are badly wounded and vulnerable to counterattack.
Fortunately we can sue for peace if we wish. Nap ended the war the turn before.
I think it may still be worth it to try to take Nidaros. If we lose Etruscan to the archer, we can maybe retake it after promoting the swords. But I'm not sure.
Here's the military stats so far...
And the tech situation...
Justinian and Ramesses got Currency 1-2 turns before us unfortunately. So we are looking poor on the tech trade front, but our economy is in better shape now. We immediately got 20 extra commerce per turn from Currency, and we can build markets which are great at a low slider rate (unfortunately they're so damn expensive, maybe only worth it in Amsterdam and Hague). We also got the shrine, which incidentally lets us step up our gp generation.
Ok, I start by cleaning up the Viking army near Delft. I take a slight gamble with an axe vs wounded shock chariot (75% I think), and then another axe takes care of the sword. I move the spearman to the forest covering the two axes, and whip another spear in Delft. Ragnar's other stack is a horse archer, chariot, and spear...he suicides all 3 at terrible odds.
I reassign workers to build roads to the south for Utrecht, Rotterdam, and Amsterdam, which will crank out a lot of military in the following turns (I think I prefer grass forest to cottages in Nijmegen btw). Moving units is still painfully slow, I guess I'm glad this is epic.
I move the settler north to found Leiden. The silk-rice city would be very poor short term, we don't need blocking cities at war, and sharing the rice would hurt Nijmegen. On the other hand, Amsterdam has more food than it can use right now, and Leiden can get running quickly.
On the same tile as the missionary in that shot is a pretty nice French army. You can see it in NoChildren's save. But it had stopped moving south when it encountered roadless jungle and started retreating. Once I had completed the highway I told Nap to attack a specific city and he put the army back in play. Very good call bringing Nap into the war, I'm pretty surprised he was willing.
I'm surprised in part because nothing else related to tech trades goes right in my set. I switch to no religion on turn 2, but Charlie and Nap think too few know Construction still. I delay putting research in it as long as I can before it would start costing turns, but only Wang is willing to trade, and I already sold Monotheism for 100 gold.
But at least abandoning Hindu improves relations. Justinian and Ramesses eventually go to Pleased, and Charlie and Wang go to Cautious. Nap is still Pleased. It would've really hurt if someone else attacked us right now. I successfully begged Justinian for 60 gold (near the end of the set), and trade for dye, banana, and wheat with Ramesses and him. Note that we are still in OR, costing us something like 5gpt - I didn't think it was worth losing a turn of production to switch out. We can still build missionaries w/o monastaries at least.
As far as future relations with Ragnar go, I sour them a little with this decision...
I lose a CR2 axe and a shock axe in the siege. Fortunately, we get Construction and catapults 2 turns later. No phants, we need HR. I would suggest a new city 1 north of the ruins.
The turn before the battle, Judaism spread to his capital and he converted. A shame he didn't wait 2 more turns before declaring, so we could prevent that with missionaries. There's always the option of simply capturing Nidaros before we end the war...
This screenshot jumps ahead 5 turns or so. I saved and took a very long break after the completion of Construction. Up to this point I've been collecting forces for an attack on Uppsala, and I also have a secondary army forming in the west to take Etruscan (aka the sugar barb city) which is easier to move new troops to than the distant south.
I built the spy to check on the garrisons of Viking cities, and to find units heading north (Earlier I moved an axe into the forest near Delft to deny the defensive terrain to what I thought was a lone Viking axe. A horse archer came out of the fog of war causing us to lose the axe.) The spy revealed that nearly all Viking cities are defended by two level 3 axes and an archer - I unfortunately built a few more swords before I discovered this. I'm not used to AIs using so many axes for defense.
I don't think I'm able to take Ragnar's walled, axe-defended cities without cats, so I wait as they move south. Meanwhile Nap is moving a very nice army to take Uppsala himself. I'm worried he'll either take a city we want, or give Ragnar more promotions, so I send him to the landlocked city Jelling, which is still near enough to Ragnar's core to divert his troops. Maybe we also would've wanted that city, but we can't take everything ourselves. He does take it, and a couple Viking armies heading for us go on the counterattack.
The same turn as the French victory we finally get our Prophet. I intend to fortify him to save for Divine Right, but I misclick...
We get 15 gpt right away, and Hindu spreads to another city spontaneously in the next few turns. I've already been running scientists in Hague, and I assign some in Amsterdam now too. We are able to speed up gp generation significantly by using priests, but I think useful lightbulbs are better than a golden age or super specialist right now. When we get currency we can build a market to multiply the shrine (and the commerce at our low slider) and assign merchants.
Once I get a couple cats in position, I move to Uppsala. I don't wait to bombard the wall, and we lose 2 cats, a chariot, and an axe in the siege (pretty good exchange, imo).
A general is born, and I move him south. Instructor in Rotterdam or super-medic I think are our best choices. Ragnar suicides some mounted units on the spears in Uppsala on the counterattack. I intended to stop at turn 205, but we were 1 turn from Currency and an attack on Etruscan. Sorry but I'm selfish...
This battle does not go as well as Uppsala. We lose 3 cats and 2 swords, and the victorious units are badly wounded and vulnerable to counterattack.
Fortunately we can sue for peace if we wish. Nap ended the war the turn before.
I think it may still be worth it to try to take Nidaros. If we lose Etruscan to the archer, we can maybe retake it after promoting the swords. But I'm not sure.
Here's the military stats so far...
And the tech situation...
Justinian and Ramesses got Currency 1-2 turns before us unfortunately. So we are looking poor on the tech trade front, but our economy is in better shape now. We immediately got 20 extra commerce per turn from Currency, and we can build markets which are great at a low slider rate (unfortunately they're so damn expensive, maybe only worth it in Amsterdam and Hague). We also got the shrine, which incidentally lets us step up our gp generation.
NoChildren
Warlord
nice turns Quechua
you not only took a couple of cities you also got our crappy economy in shape
I haven't looked at the save, but from looking at the report it seems like we're in a good position. let's go for HBR which should be pretty quick, whip 3 phants and go take Nidaros! or maybe we could just take it anyways with enough cats it should be possible. facing a computer at the same power-rating is usually very easy imo
you not only took a couple of cities you also got our crappy economy in shape
I haven't looked at the save, but from looking at the report it seems like we're in a good position. let's go for HBR which should be pretty quick, whip 3 phants and go take Nidaros! or maybe we could just take it anyways with enough cats it should be possible. facing a computer at the same power-rating is usually very easy imo
I've seen the save.
Why all those missionary builds?
I prefer to knock out the Vikings.
I like those floodplains near Haithabu, but the city isn't near fresh water, so
a raze would be a good thing.
Nidaros could go 1S, Bjorgvin is ok and the city near Egypt borders with floodplains too is also interesting.
We've got a city with Judaism. We should go with this religion.
Why all those missionary builds?
I prefer to knock out the Vikings.
I like those floodplains near Haithabu, but the city isn't near fresh water, so
a raze would be a good thing.
Nidaros could go 1S, Bjorgvin is ok and the city near Egypt borders with floodplains too is also interesting.
We've got a city with Judaism. We should go with this religion.
Refar
Deity
- Joined
- Apr 10, 2005
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I wouldnt raze Nidaros - it's not too bad and saves us a settler to resettle it.
Probably wait unitll after the war with ragnar to go Judaism - Charlie and Naps are our closest neighbours and both not Jews. Once Ragnar is taken care of they should be no problem, but right now...
Probably wait unitll after the war with ragnar to go Judaism - Charlie and Naps are our closest neighbours and both not Jews. Once Ragnar is taken care of they should be no problem, but right now...
I also would like to continue the war, I think we've broken Ragnar's war machine, but his cities are still tough nuts to crack (I didn't send a spy to Bjorgvin though). Also if we don't make peace we may be unable to keep Etruscan.
I disagree with razing Nidaros and Haithabu, I feel a little remorse at razing Roskilde to be honest.
HBR is an option but the war may be over before elephants reach the front. And we can maybe trade for it after the war.
Those are cities with no production, and I already built a library in Middelburg and Maastricht. Missionaries seemed the most useful option at the time, but feel free to switch as hardly anything is invested. Market in Hague is a good choice now.
Edit- actually the horse archers from HBR may be good too, it's a long trek from our northern cities, and I didn't see any spears in Nidaros, Haithabu, or the city SW of Jelling. I still think I favor either an economic tech (COL, Calendar), or one that would allow us to trade with the Jewish bloc (Aesthetics?).
I disagree with razing Nidaros and Haithabu, I feel a little remorse at razing Roskilde to be honest.
HBR is an option but the war may be over before elephants reach the front. And we can maybe trade for it after the war.
Those are cities with no production, and I already built a library in Middelburg and Maastricht. Missionaries seemed the most useful option at the time, but feel free to switch as hardly anything is invested. Market in Hague is a good choice now.
Edit- actually the horse archers from HBR may be good too, it's a long trek from our northern cities, and I didn't see any spears in Nidaros, Haithabu, or the city SW of Jelling. I still think I favor either an economic tech (COL, Calendar), or one that would allow us to trade with the Jewish bloc (Aesthetics?).
Pre-turn
Research -> Horseback Riding
Turn 209 (535 AD)
I agree.
Turn 214 (610 AD)
We know HBR. The AIs want to trade Calendar, but we've to invest some beakers.
Turn 215 (625 AD)
Justinian offers Calendar for HBR + some gold.
I'd have appreciated when in previous posts the construction of the Apostolic Palace had been mentioned.
No matter what the war continues.
Turn 218 (670 AD)
Napoleon has enough on his hands.
Research -> Horseback Riding
Turn 209 (535 AD)
I agree.
Turn 214 (610 AD)
We know HBR. The AIs want to trade Calendar, but we've to invest some beakers.
Turn 215 (625 AD)
Justinian offers Calendar for HBR + some gold.
I'd have appreciated when in previous posts the construction of the Apostolic Palace had been mentioned.
No matter what the war continues.
Turn 218 (670 AD)
Napoleon has enough on his hands.
Refar
Deity
- Joined
- Apr 10, 2005
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- 4,608
Am i next ? Because i think you guys had swapped.
Anyway - i can play saturday evening - its a bit more than 24h from now.
If you prefer and can play sooner, i am fine with a swap too.
With Naps enought on his hands i guess we will need to reinforce our Northern Boarders as well - if he goes to war we seem to be the most likely target.
We want to finish off Ragnar anyway i think ?
Anyway - i can play saturday evening - its a bit more than 24h from now.
If you prefer and can play sooner, i am fine with a swap too.
With Naps enought on his hands i guess we will need to reinforce our Northern Boarders as well - if he goes to war we seem to be the most likely target.
We want to finish off Ragnar anyway i think ?
So I guess we won't be spreading Judaism then.
I don't understand the purpose of converting, and it seems like a rogue decision. Nap may be after Ragnar again, it looks like the peace treaty expired. But if he is after us that is a huge waste of energy. Meanwhile Charlie is annoyed and has an edge in power, if he gets enough on his hands...
OR religion is costing us something like 10 beakers per turn, once the Hindu missionaries are complete in Middelburg, Maastricht I'd switch out. Middelburg may be a good city for a Hindu monastary. I'd 5-pop markets in Amsterdam and Hague. I would run merchants instead of the current priests(?)
Was there a failed attack on a city? I left an army in Uppsala and 3 cats in the south ready or about to be completed. I also left a general that was fortified in the position I left it for some reason. If mounted units were giving us a lot of trouble Ragnar's horse resource is right at the edge of his border.
We need to whip the granary in Leiden asap. Whip the lighthouse as soon as its halfway completed or we reach pop 4. Whip Rotterdam and Delft until we can't grow back without unhappiness. Barracks in Delft may be good idea. Elephants in Utrecht will take forever to see battle, but whatever.
A couple things I am happy about is that HBR -> Calendar worked out well, and a settler is ready for silk-pig.
Please let's discuss things before we play, I'm not trying to dictate the game. This is probably our best era in the game, we have a military tech advantage over our neighbors and are about equal in gnp and production (if we whip) to the best AIs. We need to pull ahead now if we are to win the game.
When only the cities with AP religion got a hit, then I agree until the war is over. But I don't know the AP defy mechanics that well.
The main reason is to improve relations with the Jewish leaders. They give a far better relation bonus then running a no state religion.
I don't care about our neighbours. Logistic it makes expanding much easier.
There was no attack.
I'd to suicide to catapults against 2 swords + 2 horse archers on a forest tile near Delft.The city had only a spear. The axes in Uppsala cleaned up.
In my sologames I always have very long wars, until ww gets too bad.
I suggest to keep the war going, collect more GGs, more land etc.
I'd be nice to produce level 3 units (woodie 3) early.
NoChildren
Warlord
correct, Ragnar should be removed from the game if possible. He can't be trusted as was made obvious when he attacked us, his best friends..
Converting to judaism might be a good idea to improve relations, but then i think we will suffer the wrath of Napoleon for sure, so be prepared for this if we convert. But don't spread the religion around, we don't want the unhappiness from defying resolutions in all our cities.
Refar
Deity
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Sorry, my internet died away 
The inquiry with my ISP hotline was inconclusive so far: "Since it is close to the end of the month i might have exceeded my bandwich or maybe its some local technical problem". They were unable to "check it right now"
If it is the bandwich i will be back on 1 August. If it is a technical problem it might take the well organiyed and customer friendly german telecon everything from 1 hour to 3 month to fix it...
So unless i know more i must ask to put me on indefinite skip
The inquiry with my ISP hotline was inconclusive so far: "Since it is close to the end of the month i might have exceeded my bandwich or maybe its some local technical problem". They were unable to "check it right now"
If it is the bandwich i will be back on 1 August. If it is a technical problem it might take the well organiyed and customer friendly german telecon everything from 1 hour to 3 month to fix it...
So unless i know more i must ask to put me on indefinite skip
NoChildren
Warlord
That's too bad Refar. Let's hope the problem is fixed quickly.
This makes me up, I have tons of work to do, but i hope to squeeze in this game sometime today or tomorrow.
This makes me up, I have tons of work to do, but i hope to squeeze in this game sometime today or tomorrow.
