[R&F] No iron

[regeneration64]

Experienced what I think is my first game without being able to get iron this month.

Needless to say, it has been a struggle. How do you cope without getting iron?

Playing on emperor, huge map, large islands, The Netherlands.

Started on the southern tip of a large island with a number of other civs. No iron. By time found first source on another island I was beaten to it by about 2 or 3 turns. Other sources are pretty much nil or will result in major loyalty problems.

Needless to say, that Civ was too powerful to attack there and then - especially with their new found resource - and it was a constant worry as to what will happen if they DoW'd before I was ready to go.

How do you manage, or even thrive, without iron? It obviously makes any rushes with swordsman or knights impossible and by the time you get niter some Civs are so far ahead it can get a little hairy...

 

[Zdarg]

I'd just play peacefully.
In worst case, if your neighour will attack, ranged units are enough for defence.

 

[myclan]

I think emperor is easy enough to survive until niter comes and don't need any exploit at all. Sometimes you will be lucky to play a heavy chariot/horseman rush. But crossbow is enough for defense. In the worst case you can build a encampment

 

[Leathaface]

Building only Crossbowmen isn't enough to hold off a Knight rush, 2 Knights can kill 1 Crossbowman in a single turn. Build at least 4 Spearmen and upgrade them to Pikemen if you think you will get hit by Knights.

Since I moved up to Immortal, Knights have been the biggest threat by a sizeable distance.

 

[Aristos]

Magnus.

 

[MonkeyPaw]

Jebel Barkal

 

[Archon_Wing]

Well I mean playing peacefully isn't always possible if it's those awful pennisular/mountain pass starts where you get stuck with only a few spots.

On Emperor you could probably win by rushing oracle/theater square with Magnus, and then fall asleep until you get pike and shot or infantry or something

Also horsemen are just fine as well. Encampment + great general usually works.

But I do wonder how people are always getting those 20 cities by t90 with 9 billion science if these spawns keep happening.

Though that reminds me my last game (Emperor/Fractal)... this garbage start. You need irrigation and bronze working to even use this capital and of course plantation luxuries are crap. Actually this would be a good city later on, but this is Civ 6 so having good cities is irrelevant.

Had a decent city spot to settle, and that literally was it. Tomyris blocked me in and spawned with 2 horses in her start. WTH can I do with warriors against Scythian archers/horsemen? Though I got Suzerain of Hong Kong with oligarchy warriors and managed to use them as a meat shield to take a city but no way I can push any further. To make matters worse I accidentally hit a Normal Age which means no bonus there and just caused me to miss the next Golden Age.

So what can we do? Well, obviously meme our way to victory with the meme unit!

Now, maybe I was fortunate enough that Tomyris didn't make swordsmen til later though with a Great General + Oligarchy the pikes were at least able to hold their ground with archer support. It wasn't exactly fun though since archers get 2 shot by anything. And more importantly they could take down the city even if I couldn't kill fortified swordsmen.

Other funny notes

Joining an emergency when I didn't know where the liberation target is.... well, not like I cared about that. I just wanted Teddy's cities.

Spoiler :

I built Chicken Pizza! I almost never get to do that

Spoiler :

Teddy actually built a really good city and even stole Collosseum , so I added Amudsen-Scott

Spoiler :

And yea, I was going to post this in the Mapuche thread except none of the Mapuche abilities really helped until later.

 

[Trav'ling Canuck]

But I do wonder how people are always getting those 20 cities by t90 with 9 billion science if these spawns keep happening.

RNG I guess. I've only had a peninsula behind a mountain range start once, and I had plenty of room for cities in that game.

 

[myclan]

Well I mean playing peacefully isn't always possible if it's those awful pennisular/mountain pass starts where you get stuck with only a few spots.

On Emperor you could probably win by rushing oracle/theater square with Magnus, and then fall asleep until you get pike and shot or infantry or something

Also horsemen are just fine as well. Encampment + great general usually works.

But I do wonder how people are always getting those 20 cities by t90 with 9 billion science if these spawns keep happening.

Though that reminds me my last game (Emperor/Fractal)... this garbage start. You need irrigation and bronze working to even use this capital and of course plantation luxuries are crap. Actually this would be a good city later on, but this is Civ 6 so having good cities is irrelevant.

Had a decent city spot to settle, and that literally was it. Tomyris blocked me in and spawned with 2 horses in her start. WTH can I do with warriors against Scythian archers/horsemen? Though I got Suzerain of Hong Kong with oligarchy warriors and managed to use them as a meat shield to take a city but no way I can push any further. To make matters worse I accidentally hit a Normal Age which means no bonus there and just caused me to miss the next Golden Age.

So what can we do? Well, obviously meme our way to victory with the meme unit!

Now, maybe I was fortunate enough that Tomyris didn't make swordsmen til later though with a Great General + Oligarchy the pikes were at least able to hold their ground with archer support. It wasn't exactly fun though since archers get 2 shot by anything. And more importantly they could take down the city even if I couldn't kill fortified swordsmen.

Other funny notes

Joining an emergency when I didn't know where the liberation target is.... well, not like I cared about that. I just wanted Teddy's cities.

Spoiler :

I built Chicken Pizza! I almost never get to do that

Spoiler :

Teddy actually built a really good city and even stole Collosseum , so I added Amudsen-Scott

Spoiler :

And yea, I was going to post this in the Mapuche thread except none of the Mapuche abilities really helped until later.

Actually I think your start is great. You have 3F2P tile in the 2nd ring and a lot of 2F2P or 3F1P tile, when you get magnus you can chop a lot, enough place for mining and enough pop to work them.

 

[Zdarg]

Topic starter said island map. On island map there is always plenty of small to medium-sized islands where you can settle without any loyalty problems and without any need for war.

 

[Archon_Wing]

Actually I think your start is great. You have 3F2P tile in the 2nd ring and a lot of 2F2P or 3F1P tile, when you get magnus you can chop a lot, enough place for mining and enough pop to work them.

Yea, maybe I shouldn't have put it like that. The city itself would be great with Magnus, but with no tiles to improve right away that means no craftsmanship boost without plantations unless I move down and that worsens the whole thing. If there were more trees or improvable resource or a luxury it would be better, but these kinds of things tend to be work fast or fall behind. Normally luxuries are not that bad but they do impact loyalty which can suck early on.

But I wasn't really being specific enough. It's a combination of that and also only having 2 more spots to expand (of which 1wasn't very good.)

 

[myclan]

Yea, maybe I shouldn't have put it like that. The city itself would be great with Magnus, but with no tiles to improve right away that means no craftsmanship boost without plantations unless I move down and that worsens the whole thing. If there were more trees or improvable resource or a luxury it would be better, but these kinds of things tend to be work fast or fall behind. Normally luxuries are not that bad but they do impact loyalty which can suck early on.

But I wasn't really being specific enough. It's a combination of that and also only having 2 more spots to expand (of which 1wasn't very good.)

Yes, I think the only bad thing for this map is unable to get craftmanship fast enough to build more unit. But with this good enough unimproved tile I think the best strategy is to build a scout and a settler as soon as pop reach 2. And try to make 3 improvement there.

 

[Archon_Wing]

Yea seems like that is the best idea for that build since you can get a settler faster with that city.

 

[Cedbird77]

100,000 bees will kill a swordsman knight rush.

What do I mean by that? Early game I find the cure all on Emperor which I always play on.

Big enough army to be defend and be flexible to rush before I get to Ironworking.

I never worry about not getting iron. The moment I find out I don't have it I have two choices.

Keep building units. Decapitate and severely cut down my enemy so they are no danger to me. With or without iron.

That means my Military and Scientific strength are the most important things.

2nd choice is take the iron from the Civ city I want it from. You have to think ahead and be ready to strike.

Or you can try... To play peacefully if the AI will let you.

Just build a whole bunch of units and Encampments. GG in additional.

Try to trade for iron. It is possible

 

[OmegaDestroyer]

It seems far more common for me not to start anywhere near iron than not. So either I trade for it or focus on ranged units.

 

[row2infinity]

Magnus.

^this

 

[BenitoChavez]

If you don't have iron but do have horses then I find horsemen to be an acceptable alternative to swordsmen.

Also since you are on an islands map focusing on science and rushing to frigates (especially those dutch ones) can be quite strong.

 

[regeneration64]

Well I mean playing peacefully isn't always possible if it's those awful pennisular/mountain pass starts where you get stuck with only a few spots.

This is the exact situation I found. Being on the tip of an island, I only had room for 3 cities prior to access to the oceans and as a double wammy I could literally only build around 1 farm in each city as the terrain wasn't great. My neighbour was the strongest Civ in the game and war was not an option unless I fancied suicide.

If you don't have iron but do have horses then I find horsemen to be an acceptable alternative to swordsmen.

Also since you are on an islands map focusing on science and rushing to frigates (especially those dutch ones) can be quite strong.

I didn't have horses either which was just my luck. When I discovered the iron I went straight for it with a settlor and archer in toe but was 2 turns too late. After a few choice words, my plan too was to beline for those Dutch frigates and the tide has now changed but the slog to get there has been immense.

What's even more bizarre, and I think someone did allude to, is that I am playing an islands map so you would think that one of the little islands would have had iron on it but there simply wasn't any.

I played peacefully and built myself up whilst waiting for frigates but if I had a more aggressive neighbour (mine was The Cree) or was playing a landlocked map in a similar situation I think I would have lost.