No Unit Workshop in Civ3

[Thunderfall]

If you think Civilization would have a unit workshop similar to the workshop in Alpha Centauri after reading the recent article by TwinGalaxies, you are wrong! Firaxis's webmaster Dan Magaha posted the following message in Apolyton's forum last Friday:

<FONT SIZE=1>

First off, the author of that article on Twin Galaxies was directed to check the website for more information about the game, and he apparently read the Ask the Civ Team section, specifically the question about players being able to create custom units.</P>

He apparently interpreted that answer to mean that we would be including a design-workshop type system in Civ III. </P>

We will *not* be using a design workshop, nor will there be any type of "mix and match" unit designer.</P>

What we said was that there will be significant tools available for mod creators and everyday users alike to create their own units and import them into the game. While the design workshop was an interesting feature of SMAC, its design constraints are wholly inappropriate for a game that covers as much ground as CivIII. </P>

We have sent him an email correcting him and apologize for any confusion that this has caused. As we said in our email to him, our main concern with custom units is to allow maximum flexibility for mod and scenario authors and those of you who've labored on SMAC mods or scenarios know how limiting the design workshop can be. We're aiming for at least the level of customizability that Civ II offers, and then some.</P></FONT>

What do you think of this decision? </P>

[This message has been edited by Thunderfall (edited February 04, 2001).]

 

[BlueMonday]

I'm fine with it as long as I can still customize units like I did in civ 2. I personally don't need an "editor" to modify the game. As long as they have the units.gif and rules.txt like they did in civ 2, I'm cool with it.

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"Bad chemicals and bad ideas are the Yin and Yang of madness"
-Kurt Vonnegut "Breakfast of Champions"

 

[Cunobelin Of Hippo]

Me too. As long as the programming language is so easily manipulated I have no need of a design workshop.

Can anyone guess what the Elephant unit was changed to in my version of Civ 2?

 

[BlueMonday]

But wait a minute. Aren't the units in civ 3 going to be animated? If they are, I think I may need some new software.

Originally posted by Cunobelin Of Hippo
Can anyone guess what the Elephant unit was changed to in my version of Civ 2?

Could it be a hippy flower-power van?

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"Bad chemicals and bad ideas are the Yin and Yang of madness"
-Kurt Vonnegut "Breakfast of Champions"

 

[Cunobelin Of Hippo]

No, but thanks for the excellent idea.

Hippie Flower Power Van: 6/2/3 igr. ZOC.

My next Scenario. Stay tuned.

 

[TimTheEnchanter]

Originally posted by Cunobelin Of Hippo:

Hippie Flower Power Van: 6/2/3 igr. ZOC.

Movement is 3 if either the Grateful dead or Phish are touring, otherwise, it is only 1 (if that!). But it definitely ignores zones of control!

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There are some who call me...Tim

 

[a_disciple]

This is my first atempt to enter the discussion forum of all my fellow Civ Fanatics, so wish me Luck

About the unit workshop. I don't mind if it's not in Civ III. I never really did fall for that oportunity in SMAC, because the units don't looked right...

They all looked the same, and you could get the most strange looking units, which were so unrealistic (not that SMAC is a down-to-earth game

) and ugly. I mean, how about a super-duper-fusion powered-artillery ship!(?) ... Although I like SMAC it is a very good game, after all it is a Sid Meier product!!

 

[Dan Magaha FIRAXIS]

Originally posted by BlueMonday:
But wait a minute. Aren't the units in civ 3 going to be animated? If they are, I think I may need some new software.

Could it be a hippy flower-power van?

The units that ship with the game will be animated, and anyone who wants to create animated units will be able to import them into the game using our tools.

However, you will not be forced to create animated units. If you want to import a static single-image, there will be a way to do that as well.

Dan
Firaxis Games, Inc.

 

[BlueMonday]

Dan Magaha FIRAXIS, what graphics format will be used for the default units in Civ 3?

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"Bad chemicals and bad ideas are the Yin and Yang of madness"
-Kurt Vonnegut "Breakfast of Champions"

 

[Algernon Pondlife]

Spot on!

I love designing units in SMAC(X) - sometimes I hardly care if they are any good or not - but the perspective is too long for this to be useful in CIV unless you isolate the future-modern as a kind of endgame, if you see what I mean.

 

[Pedro]

The units as I've seen them so far aren't really good. They look a little plastic. But I think animation adds a nice touch.
A unit workshop would be interesting, but hard to apply.

<FONT face="Courier New">
Transportation..Weapon..Defence.=..Unit
Foot............None....None....=..Explorer
Foot............Sword...None....=..Warrior
Foot............Sword...Shield..=..Phalanx
Foot............Bow.....None....=..Light Archer
Foot............Bow.....Shield..=..Heavy Archer
Horse...........None....None....=..Scout
Horse...........Sword...None....=..Horseman
Horse...........Bow.....None....=..Mounted archer
Horse...........Sword...Shield..=..Knight
</FONT f>

[This message has been edited by Pedro (edited February 17, 2001).]

 

[Dreadnought]

Man! i was really looking forward to customizing the units of my Civ. That would have made the game very cool(it's not like its not gong to be..but). I understand that there would be a lot of graphic problems, especially if they were animated units. We all cont be computer programers.

 

[Dwarven_Megalomaniac]

Now that I think about it, a unit workshop for Civ3 might be a little weird... it allows for things that just wouldn't make sense...

Die by the hands of my horse mounted marines, that can attack from a ship, which incidently has airdrop ability.

... you get what I'm saying... certain modules just don't fit right together.

Though one thing I LOVED about SMAC that I craved for Civ2 but couldn't implement was a subersible transport ship.

 

[Dreadnought]

Yeah but what about units that are realistic but not avalible through the main thread of the game.

Say in civII your final land combat units were the tank, howitzer, and mech inf. Well suppose you wanted to upgrade your tanks or improve your howitzers to MLRS units.. or give that helo carry capsity,

see what i mean, you could change armanment on units, tanks might defend with more hit points but move slower.

there's many possiblties but there's also many ramifications.

oh' well

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"Nothing in the world can endure forever"
-Roman Citizen

 

[Dwarven_Megalomaniac]

Well true... there are things that COULD have been created in history that would have been usefull. I'll give you that.

But consider this... how would the workshop even work? In SMAC there were a few basic chasis types to which you added armour types and then weapons... but these don't apply well to Civ games. Let me demonstrate

Say I select the elephant "chasis"... swords and pike type weapons can't be used because the wielder is on top of an elephant. The elephant's attack strength comes from its trampling ability. Also... what good would the sword or pike weapon be for people INSIDE a tank or jeep?

Am I making any sense? I'm really tired.

 

[Dan Magaha FIRAXIS]

Originally posted by BlueMonday:
Dan Magaha FIRAXIS, what graphics format will be used for the default units in Civ 3?

Right now the animated units are .FLCs, which is a somewhat obscure animation format (Autodesk created it). As I understand it, the benefit to FLC is that each frame of the animation can have its own palette, so in some ways it's superior to GIF.

We are planning to provide tools that will allow you to import graphics and export .FLCs. I'm not yet sure how single-frame units will be handled, but we will provide the necessary tools to handle any importing or conversion.

Dan
Firaxis Games, Inc.

 

[Håkan Eriksson]

Originally posted by Dan Magaha FIRAXIS:
We are planning to provide tools that will allow you to import graphics and export .FLCs. I'm not yet sure how single-frame units will be handled, but we will provide the necessary tools to handle any importing or conversion.

Sounds good Dan!

Keep upp the good work!


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This is my cool book:
John Valdez, vladmir_illych_lenin, Thunderfall, shadowdale, stormerne, Stellar Converter

 

[goodbye_mr_bond]

I've started a thread under Civ 3 Suggestions and Ideas named "Custom-made Units" where I try to explain this better, BUT...

I totally disagree with Dwarven on 'mis-matched modules' such as a horse-mounted marine. Granted, I've never played SMAC so I don't know how that works, but surely it wouldn't be technically difficult NOR aesthetically displeasing to be able to modify units according only to movement, attack/defense, ZOC, troop-carrying ability, and a few other limited additions.

No one's going to build a jeep full of archers. All you'd be able to do is modify its atk/def. You can imagine your tank fires arrows if you want, but all it is in the game is a tank with an atk factor of 3.

Same for your mounted marines: they move at 2. You can imagine they're riding unicycles if you want, but the game doesn't care.

I've never understood why I can't build a transport that can only carry 2 units, but has a movement of 10. (OK, I understand the limitations of the program, but certainly this would be a very realistic and much-needed feature?) This would be roughly akin to using the extra 6 troop spaces as fuel tanks--think of it as a strategic special mission, to get that spy in there ASAP. What war has ever been fought where such improvisations weren't made?

THe only problem I can see with this, as someone suggested in my thread, is that the AI would build useless units (ie: 12/0/0). But just don't give the AI the customize option! It has other tricks up its sleeve anyway.

Well I suppose it's all too late anyway if Firaxis has already said no. But I'd still like to know (with as little technical terminology as possible) why it's all that hard to do this...

 

[SamBamJellyJam]

Man, i really wanted a unit workshop. I was always disapointed when I was playing Germany in my WWII scenario for Civ2 and my tanks were taken out by French ones. That wouldnt have happened! A Panzer could rip through any French tank! A workshop would have been great so I could have the grandest tank army in the world! In short I would have liked that workshop.

 

[Mongol Horde]

Hurrah, hurrah, hurrah

I can now rest easily in my bed at night knowing that the insane idea of a unit workshop has been put to bed once and for all. Firaxis Dan is talking my kind of language.

It is a great shame that I won't be able to build my flying phalanx with trade capabilities.....do you think I'll survive?