"No Vitalize for You!!!"

[Mesix]

In the voice of the Soup Nazi..."No Vitalize for You!"

There was an earlier post talking about how the Blessings (2x bonuses) map script generates maps that have no reagents and verly little mithril. Without reagents you cannot upgrade mages to archmages.

Knowing this, I had my goodie-two-shoes, holier-than-thou, crusading Bannor civ research Commune with Nature. I had two groves waiting so that I could crank out druids...and...none were available to build. I eventually found the line on the bottom of the civilpedia entry where is reads "...only civs with neutral alignment..." Playing multi player, it took me a while to figure out where my plan had gone wrong.

So I have no units who can cast vitalize...ever. The only way for me to get get around this is to switch to OO. Then I can build druids. Not even switching to FoL will do. Does this seem broken flavorwize to anyone else???

...and seriously mod pimp...can you fix the resource settings so that all map types have at least one of each resource. Playing with no reagents disables a large portion of the mod!

 

[Willgar]

Genesis is your friend

 

[oyzar]

Cant you just upgrade a priest of leaves to a high preist of leaves? O_o Mostly if you want druids you swich to esus or oo so you can get them(or empyrian/kilmorph if evil).

 

[MagisterCultuum]

Yes, you could use High priests on the Leaves.

You could also switch to the Council of Esus to become Neutral (personally I think tat the council actually fits the Bannor pretty well, representing the Corrupt Order of later years)


I'm considering allowing good and neutral civs to build druids in my next version of the modmod, seeing how so many of my more powerful changes are best for evil civs. I'm also thinking that they will have both nature and Life magic now (Earth and Nature in the case of Dwarven Druids)

Also, I'm going to add 2 wonders that allow spells that create buildings that generate reagents (or several other resources). Even tough one is likely CoE (or at least Undercouncil ) only, my new implementation of the Alchemy Lab as a national wonder that allows spells that make buildings converting one resource to another (in this case probably nature mana to reagents) will make archmages easier to get.

 

[Mesix]

Actually, my Bannor crusaders wouldn't seem right reverting to a society of tree hugging hippies either. For role playing purposes, I renamed my leader Saint Righteous and the Bannor civ (in that game) is called The Christain Right. It is a multi player game where my friend is playing the Luchrip which have been renamed Hill People and his leader is Lothar.

I just think that there should be a way for me to get the late game benefits of the higher tier units without ruining the roleplaying aspect of the game. The main problem is the lack of reagents on the map.

 

[Taels]

I've always been frustrated that Arendel (the good Ljosalfar leader) can't create druids, even with FoL.

I think FoL should make a civ neutral.

 

[Cuteunit]

You have a wierd sense of humour, mesix.

 

[xienwolf]

I tend to always wind up Neutral just for Druids. Very happy that I no longer have to go OO for that to happen when I play a Good Civ because it just feels so wrong with some leaders. And I definitely like that it is Neutral only as there tends not to be much other benefit to the alignment. No diplomatic boost, but plenty of diplomatic penalties, no special shelter from Hell Terrain, just options to swing either way for Membership Civics.

 

[Hoerks]

Druids represent the balance of nature. And since Nature can be very cruel at times, it cannot be "Good" either.
Also by design the is one special unit per alignment. Paladins for the Good, Druids for the neutral and some demon unit for the evil alignments.

And flavorwise it does not make any sense that anyone can "terraform" without some special connections to the nature...
Giving Druids to good would also change the balance of the algnments, making neutral rather a alignment for the undecided without any benefits.

 

[Cuteunit]

Druids beat up paladins and give them wedgies on the playground. They really do.

Hell, druids can just summon unlimited Treants, which are actually a better unit than Paladins all on their own... and guardian vines also rock well, despite being immobile their permanence makes for a great stack defender.

treants do collateral damage AND they bombard AND they are perm so they can gain promotions... its like summoning a Berzerker without metal upgrades more or less. Great unit.

Nature is my favourite mana overall.

I think it would be nice if Paladins got more love myself. They don't even HAVE spells unless you promoted them up from a disciple unit.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

treants do collateral damage AND they bombard AND they are perm so they can gain promotions... its like summoning a Berzerker without metal upgrades more or less. Great unit.

Actually, the Bombarding and the Collateral damage (and the ability to get promotions, since they normally don't have a unitcombat) are changes from my modmod. Treants are not quite so good in normal FfH.


Also, they're not unlimited. You can't summon another treant unless you have more units capable of summoning treants than you have treants (just like skeletons).

 

[Mesix]

Actually...I found a work around for another game (although not for the multiplayer game that is still only half finished). If I adopt FoL early, I can build FoL Priest units that will eventually get nature abilities. When I switch religions, the priests do not disband, so in the midgame, I can switch to Order (or another religion) and keep my FoL priests.

BTW, do the alignment specific units (like Paladins and Druids) abandon you if/when you switch alignment? I know that the religion specific heroes do, but since the priests don't it made me wonder...perhaps I'll test it out.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

No. High Priests and Heroes abandon you, but Inquisitors, Druids, Paladins, and Eidola do not. (Note that Inquisitors must be of your state religion in order to cast inquisition)

 

[it-ogo]

(Note that Inquisitors must be of your state religion in order to cast inquisition)

In my experience no. In one game under the Order state religion I was able to perform inquisition with former stonewarden. Interesting that at that game I was allowed to have 4 Inquizitors: 2 from confessors and 2 from stonewardens. 1 stonewarden was upgraded under Runes, another - under the Order. I am not sure which one I was used to inquize.

Edit: it was 30f

 

[MagisterCultuum]

hmm...I'm pretty sure that it used to require it,but I see no such requirement in the python, so I guess this has been changed.

(I'll probably put it back in my modmod, or make Inquisitors abandon you. It makes more since for Inquisitors to abandon you than for High Priests, imho)