Nobles' Club 236: Cyrus of Persia

[AcaMetis]

Next up is actually Qin, courtesy of Tobiyogi. And an update to the schedule from me, I suppose .

 

[shakabrade]

This is more for other onlookers I suppose:

Spoiler :

1. My game needs improvement, definitely still rusty and not fully recovered. Although, the only trade I made with WvO was selling aesthetics for completing partially-researched alphabet, so I guess close to isolation? One thing I can think of is more efficient use of slavery to whip out settlers more quickly maybe?

2. Could I have reached astro AND military tradition by 500AD? Even if I could, my cities were not very big and I only have 9/10 of them. I could have whipped out around 20 Cuirassiers at most. Maybe I can take one or two cities with that? They cost the same as settlers, so, basically as quickly as one can whip settlers out. Slower, since I am imperialistic.

Anyway, the next NC is Tokugawa or Wang Kon and I enjoy playing both. Definitely looking forward!

Spoiler as it reveals a bit about the map layout:

Spoiler :

You need to liberate a city or 2 to AI that can plot at Pleased when in semi-iso. If he did not attack you in semi-iso, it is pure luck. When Friendly, AI will not attack, unless it has already started to plot prior to that. In semi iso, you will not see a red fist indicating an AI is plotting.

Also, at friendly, AI trades all techs except those which enable world wonder and only if AI decides to build a certain wonder ("We have our reasons" message). Since I prioritized getting Friendly before even settling stone or sheep sites (and I think getting to Friendly should be a number one goal), I was able to trade for 3-4 more techs than you. I definitely got Alpha, CoL, Monotheism, Calendar for Aestehtics, Metal Casting, Compass. That probably beats what Mids would give to you in turns of bpt. Regarding production, there was more than enough of it. Cities are all food rich. But if you feel that you absolutely need to commit to earlier attack date, pre-produce War Elephants as they upgrade to Cuirs more cheaply than Horse Archers and produce a GM for trade mission to upgrade them. In that case you have additional 20-25T of production.

 

[sylvanllewelyn]

Wait what?! AIs trade (almost) all techs at friendly?! See, if I had knew that beforehand...

 

[shakabrade]

Wait what?! AIs trade (almost) all techs at friendly?! See, if I had knew that beforehand...

Almost more important than not getting killed.

 

[mscellaneous]

Played till 1000AD (turn 160)

Spoiler :

In 3 turns I will Lib Steel and build an army of maces and cannons to attack Willem. Seems a bit daunting as he has 16 cities while I have only 8. He also has build Chicken Pizza :/

He has a sizable stack conveniently parked in a border city, east of Tarsus. I plan to DoW and remove it when he invades.

Tech wise I am fine, tech rate seems pretty slow for an immortal game. I think I can wage a long war and still be competitive afterwards.

 

[shakabrade]

Played till 1000AD (turn 160)

Spoiler :

In 3 turns I will Lib Steel and build an army of maces and cannons to attack Willem. Seems a bit daunting as he has 16 cities while I have only 8. He also has build Chicken Pizza :/
View attachment 556133

He has a sizable stack conveniently parked in a border city, east of Tarsus. I plan to DoW and remove it when he invades.
View attachment 556134

Tech wise I am fine, tech rate seems pretty slow for an immortal game. I think I can wage a long war and still be competitive afterwards.
View attachment 556135

Spoiler :

Maybe it is better that you move your SoD next to his city and use CR1 promo on cannons to get better odds. If your SoD is big enough, he will just park there and not even try to attack you. This depends on unit courage. I think Willem is not near Shaka or Monty regarding unit courage. You'll wipe out his main army and take a city in a process. If you wait for him additional 2-3 turns, he'll make a lot of army from 16 cities.

 

[mscellaneous]

Spoiler :

Maybe it is better that you move your SoD next to his city and use CR1 promo on cannons to get better odds. If your SoD is big enough, he will just park there and not even try to attack you. This depends on unit courage. I think Willem is not near Shaka or Monty regarding unit courage. You'll wipe out his main army and take a city in a process. If you wait for him additional 2-3 turns, he'll make a lot of army from 16 cities.

Spoiler :

That is a good idea, which was also my original plan. But seeing the size of Willem's stack I concluded that I'd rather strike first, assuming he'd attack my stack if I were to invade. With only 8 (actually 7) cities that can build units I cannot raise a big army in a short amount of time. So for starters I'd take only 10 cannons, 8 maces and a few pikes and declare. I am not very familiar with AI behavior during war. So it might be that his stack simply won't move! According to a CIV4 reference guide Willem's attack courage is high (where Shaka's and Monty's is very high). Not sure what to expect.

 

[shakabrade]

Spoiler :

That is a good idea, which was also my original plan. But seeing the size of Willem's stack I concluded that I'd rather strike first, assuming he'd attack my stack if I were to invade. With only 8 (actually 7) cities that can build units I cannot raise a big army in a short amount of time. So for starters I'd take only 10 cannons, 8 maces and a few pikes and declare. I am not very familiar with AI behavior during war. So it might be that his stack simply won't move! According to a CIV4 reference guide Willem's attack courage is high (where Shaka's and Monty's is very high). Not sure what to expect.

You could settle a city across his stack and DoW. He takes your city on flatland no defense or cultural defense and you park your units in a way to attack him immediately. Put one or two poor defenders inside for him to waste a move and make sure that city hits size 2 at least once as it will autoraze otherwise. Did this several times, especially powerful when enemy has railroad and can hit you anywhere. This makes sure you can focus your SoD and still defend everything.

 

[elmurcis]

You need to liberate a city or 2 to AI that can plot at Pleased when in semi-iso. If he did not attack you in semi-iso, it is pure luck. When Friendly, AI will not attack, unless it has already started to plot prior to that. In semi iso, you will not see a red fist indicating an AI is plotting.

Off-topic: This was game-changer for me (when I found out that it also gives +4 fair trade boost (so +5 with one city (if get liberation bonus). That (just one settler with religion help) made possible to win with specific goals like "UN Diplo with Monty as Permanent Ally (without single DoW)". Before I would just rage-quit.

 

[shakabrade]

Off-topic: This was game-changer for me (when I found out that it also gives +4 fair trade boost (so +5 with one city (if get liberation bonus). That (just one settler with religion help) made possible to win with specific goals like "UN Diplo with Monty as Permanent Ally (without single DoW)". Before I would just rage-quit.

To add to that you get +1.5 diplo points for liberating a city, rounded down. Therefore, when you liberate a 2nd city you get additional +1.5, and that is +3. With fair trade capped at +4, you get +7 for 2 cities. With years of peace, OB bonus, shared religion, favorite civic and resource trades you get the rest. There is also "you have shared technologies with us" bonus, but it takes many trades for most of the AI. You also need to overcome -1 and -2 first impression modifier which is partly AI personality and partly RNG, I think. You can find this in many threads, but some still seem to be unaware, so better to say all of this twice than none. It is a powerful tool. But also you need to gift it/them early. Gifting 200 is not a breeze and if you wait for too long, you'll run out of spots close enough to the AI capital plus you also risk to be invaded. So, making it early is often better, even if it hurts.

 

[Excal]

T253 1715AD

Spoiler :

plenty of grens /cannon left over so whip galleons for assault on Peter
Russia already at war with SittingBull so quickly take 4 cities (hoping for 5 but Wang dogpiles)
cap Peter and then Wang next after PeaceTreaty expires - fortunately 1 turn before StPeters (Wang) comes out of revolt
destroy Wangs stack x2 and he readily caps a few turns later as well

T308 1876AD
Domination

fascinating game - lots of different options/potential outcomes
but took way too long

Spoiler :

decide to go for Pacal who has Boudica vassal
SittingBull would be easier as he is behind in tech, but decide to take the harder challenge instead
need about 10% more land for >64%

Pacal will be harder as he is a couple turns away from tanks
so I am always behind in tech during longer war
burn 2 cities but his culture still strong
eventually I get tanks but he has mechinfantry
eventually I get airships but he has bombers
eventually I get destroyers but he has missilecruiser/submarine and so it goes
take ceasefire to get my tanks safely across water then reDoW

tank vs city mechinfantry =
but with artillery
take Uxmal with destroyer help
then burn ChickenItza
finally the WonderPrize Mutal taken and he caps

 

[shakabrade]

@Excal

Well that is one earned victory. I probably never fought Mech Infantry without nukes.

 

[migalhone]

As someone who has played civ4 on and off, Noble's Club seem to be a good way to get back in (Steam says i've sunk 70h+, which is a bit weird considering i've never actually finished a game )

Seems i'm late to the party, so i guess i'll wait for the next NC game. It's one per month right?

 

[AcaMetis]

There's nothing stopping you from picking up an older NC game if you wish, just depends on which leader/map type you'd prefer to play with.

As for schedule it's one per week right now. The latest one went up yesterday, 238 with Darius, next up is Monty scheduled for next Monday (which it probably will this time, since delays are less likely now that I've finally managed to craft a Cell Phone ).

 

[migalhone]

There's nothing stopping you from picking up an older NC game if you wish, just depends on which leader/map type you'd prefer to play with.

As for schedule it's one per week right now. The latest one went up yesterday, 238 with Darius, next up is Monty scheduled for next Monday (which it probably will this time, since delays are less likely now that I've finally managed to craft a Cell Phone ).

Thanks for the reply. So the next NC comes Monday, i may manage to play this Darius one until Monday comes

 

[migalhone]

So i've picked this up, settled in place.

Spoiler :

Met the Dutch up north, while teching up to Bronze Working, Pottery and Writing, thinking of using Immortals to conquer them.
It went bad, really bad. Only 5 Immortals got to Utrecht, the other 2 were killed by a Barb spearman. I kept producing Immortals but it's clear that i've waited for too long.
Maybe after getting Catapults things will be different.
How do you think i'm going so far? Can i come back from the wasted Immortals?