Nobles' Club 273: Ragnar of the Vikings

[AcaMetis]

The Nobles' Club series started out as a way for Noble-level (and below) players to improve their game. Most of the original participants now play at much higher levels, so this has become a way for advanced players to help others learn to play better. You can play your own game at any level and with any mod, but it would be nice to comment on the games of other players and give them advice.

Our next leader is Ragnar of the Vikings, whom we last played in NC 232. The Vikings start with Fishing and Hunting.

• Traits: Ragnar is Aggressive and Financial. Aggressive gives all Melee and Gunpowder units a free Combat I promotion, and gives a +100% bonus to Barracks and Drydocks. Financial adds +1 to any tile that already produces at least 2. Imperialistic adds +100% to Great General generation and +50% bonus to Settler production (note that the settler bonus doesn't apply to excess directly converted to ).
  
• The UB: The Trading Post, a Lighthouse that gives a free Navigation I promotion to all naval units build in that city. Combine this with circumnavigation and cheap drydocks to create the fastest navy the world has ever seen.
  
• The UU: The Berserker, a Maceman with +10% city attack and a free Amphibious promotion, which negates the combat penalty for attacking from a boat or across a river. Given City Raider promotions and backed by a big boat to bombard down city defences these guys are true terrors to any coastal city.

And the start:

Spoiler map details :

Fractal, Temperate Climate, Medium Sealevel.

Spoiler edits :

Resource swaps, nearby strategics, you know how that goes. Also moved an AI 3 spaces west of their original starting position to try and better spread out the land distribution.

Spoiler isolated? :

Not isolated.

The WB-saves are attached (zipped; they are bigger than standard saves). To play, simply download and unzip it into your BTS/Saves/WorldBuilder folder. Start the game, and load your favorite MOD (if you use one, if not, check out the BUG MOD), select "Play Scenario", and look for "NC 273 Ragnar Noble" (or Monarch, etc., for higher levels). You can play with your favorite MOD at the Level and Speed of your choice. From Quick-Warlord to Marathon-Deity, all are welcome! We stuck with the name "Nobles Club" because it has a cool ring to it.

Spoiler what's up with specific difficulties :

In each scenario file you can select your level of difficulty, but that doesn't give the AI the right bonus techs by itself. Use the Noble save for all levels at and below Prince. The Monarch save gives all the AI Archery. Emperor adds Hunting; Immortal adds Agriculture; Deity adds The Wheel.

Spoiler what is demigod :

The difference between Immortal and Deity difficulty is akin to the difference between Noble and Immortal. Players eventually reached a point where Immortal was too easy, but Deity was still out of reach, and so neither difficulty provided a fun experience. "Demigod" is an otherwise standard Deity game where the AIs are only given their Immortal level starting units, in an attempt to bridge the gap.

Spoiler for players on Monarch or above :

You should add archery as a tech for the barbarians (if you don't, the AI will capture their cities very early). This cannot be done in the WB save file and must be done in Worldbuilder as follows:

Spoiler how to add techs to the barbarians :

1. Zoom in all the way so you can't see the rest of the map.
2. Use the CTRL-W key (or the menu) to enter the worldbuilder. Avoid looking at the mini-map in the lower right corner.
3. By default you're in "player" mode (look in the box in the upper right; the icon that looks like a person should be selected). You'll get a drop down menu labeled with your leader's name. Barbarians are at the bottom, so cover the rest of the list with your hand if you don't want to see who else is on the map. Select "Barbarians".
4. Select the "Technologies" tab in the box on the left.
5. Find Archery (the arrow head icon; 8th row, 3rd column from the right) and click it.
6. Exit the worldbuilder.
7. Zoom out again after the map fades, and start playing.

If you're playing at higher level than Monarch, consider also giving them Hunting at Emperor, Agriculture at Immortal, and The Wheel at Deity.

Spoiler huts and events :

Note: The standard saves have no huts and have events turned off. If you want tribal villages and random events, choose the saves with "Huts" in their names. If you want huts but no events, select the Huts saves and use Custom Scenario to turn on the option that suppresses events.

For those following Augustus' Great Experiment I'll maybe potentially probably have updates in the Bullpen topic. For the rest it's Berserker time!

 

[AcaMetis]

On the one hand, marble plains hill accessible for a T1 settle. On the other side, coast, and all of the potentially ruined seafood that implies. How do the experts resolve this situation, balancing a 3 capital and instantly connected Marble with the potential to ruin seafood?

Or is there somewhere else I should be looking to settle instead ?

 

[krikav]

The marble gives a 3H city center which is obviously huge. There is also a 3H (forested plains hill) ready to work right away if we settle there, so it yields a wicked fast workboat.
Don't think there is much that can compete with that.
Besides, there is probably whale out there too!

If roadless access to marble will play a role it's very hard to tell.

Perhaps check the inland PH with the scout first, just in case it's dual wet corn and gold there?

 

[Major Tom]

Thanks for the save. Moving scout to marble tile and let it scout, perhaps. If no more food there is always the option of settle on PH north of marble. Gaining food, losing work turns for connection to marble and trees. That said, sending scout west or north may reveal interesting stuff. Why are the blue circle where it is, and not where settler stands?

x-post with Krikav.

 

[Major Tom]

If anyone care to post the deitysave with all barb tech added, I would be very happy. I usually spoil much of the fun by unintentionally looking at minimap and/or list of AI opponents when messing with world builder.

 

[mscellaneous]

Settling on the marble would give a T6 workboat, which is quite tempting. However, not sure what I would tech in this situation.
As an alternative, you could settle on the forested PH, resulting in a T7 WB. The Marble can be mined for a 5H tile, making Mining > BW a solid opener.
When quarried it is a good tile for FIN leaders giving 4H + 3C.

I think the scout should take a peek first.

x-post with krikav and Major Tom

 

[Major Tom]

Settling on the marble would give a T6 workboat, which is quite tempting. However, not sure what I would tech in this situation.
As an alternative, you could settle on the forested PH, resulting in a T7 WB. The Marble can be mined for a 5H tile, making Mining > BW a solid opener.
When quarried it is a good tile for FIN leaders giving 4H + 3C.

I think the scout should take a peek first.

x-post with krikav and Major Tom

Thanks for pointing out the difference between 6/7 turn workboat and also cash bonus working quarry.
I think that settles the matter for me and will send scout west or north. Now I have some coin flipping to do.

 

[krikav]

If you settle 1N of the marble, the workboat reaches the clams a turn faster too, so you don't really lose a turn on the clams. You do lose the city center hammer though, and the forest.

I would be tempted to go AH unless nothing else shows up. Cows are nice and with financial lake+seafood we can certainly afford it.
Checking for horses early could be really good, oracle HBR might be an option here.
Workerturns could get messy though.

 

[krikav]

If anyone care to post the deitysave with all barb tech added, I would be very happy. I usually spoil much of the fun by unintentionally looking at minimap and/or list of AI opponents when messing with world builder.

I could have, but won't be starting this for a while yet, have another game up just now.
But what I do is that I take the calculator I have beside the computer and put it up to cover where the minimap is, then I zoom in and zoom in field of view maximum, then I enter worldbuilder and gently click my name in the player dropdown list, while looking down at the keyboard. Then I push the down-arrow like a madman 10-20 times and then enter. (Credits to @Pangaea for mentioning this trick!)
That selects the barbarians, so I don't get spoiled with AIs there are in the game.

It usually works perfect! Have refined the technique over the years as I really really hate getting the suprises ruined.

 

[mscellaneous]

If you settle 1N of the marble, the workboat reaches the clams a turn faster too, so you don't really lose a turn on the clams. You do lose the city center hammer though, and the forest.

Those are good points.

I would be tempted to go AH unless nothing else shows up. Cows are nice and with financial lake+seafood we can certainly afford it.
Checking for horses early could be really good, oracle HBR might be an option here.
Workerturns could get messy though.

I think you lose a lot of worker turns though. I think I'd go Mining > BW as well and build WB + warriors and start a settler at size 3.

Here is a screenshot after the scout has moved onto the Marble

Spoiler :

 

[Major Tom]

If you settle 1N of the marble, the workboat reaches the clams a turn faster too, so you don't really lose a turn on the clams. You do lose the city center hammer though, and the forest.

I would be tempted to go AH unless nothing else shows up. Cows are nice and with financial lake+seafood we can certainly afford it.
Checking for horses early could be really good, oracle HBR might be an option here.
Workerturns could get messy though.

Ohaa, YES. Let us have a Oracle play. I never dare that.

 

[krikav]

@Major Tom
Deity starting save with barb techs added!

 

[mscellaneous]

Immortal, played till turn 70

Spoiler :

Settled on the marble. Tech Mining > BW > AH > Sailing > Masonry > Wheel > Pottery > Writing > AG. Build 2 WBs and 2 pop whipped a settler. Found another continent east and immediately started planning for GLH in Nidaros. Great 2nd city with Clams, Cow, Horse (and soon Fish). 4th city will take Cow and Furs near Hannibal. Having Marble I'll aim for GLib and National Epic in Uppsala.

With GLH in and 5 AIs already met this game seems in the bag.

 

[Major Tom]

Spoiler Deity 1AD :

Settled marble spot. Tech path: AH,mining,bw. Then wheel(chariots for safety and prerequisite),pottery(granaries and cottages),sailing(traderoutes, galleys for crossing strait and enhanced lighthouses). Then writing,aesthetic. Not sure if sailing,TW,pottery was efficient.

6 cities + 1 on other continent. Have The Great Library. CS finished. Great Scientist popped. Now at the crossroads. Go for Lib or play the map. Wilhelm already has paper and philosophy, but I can double bulb education. There is an isolated guy who founded Tao a while back. He might also be a contender for Lib.

Common sense say I should start military buildup instead. Here is why I fail at deity, I go for Lib because it is exiting and war is tedious. The Lib race is exiting in several ways; techwise, diplomatically and the trading opportunities when done. But probably not smart here.

 

[keaaa]

@AcaMetis thanks for putting up these games! Really lovely to see how others play compared to one self

Spoiler T240 Immortal :

I went for marble and second city somewhat north, sharing some of the resources. Cant remember exactly the tech path, but think it was mining -> bw -> AH -> road -> pottery -> writing -> towards monarchy

Met Hannibal early, and settled towards him. Managed to get a really late Oracle, which i bulbed Fudalism with (just took the most expensive tech there was). Also settled a city on the other continent, near gold resource for happiness, and a future city to attack from.

Then went for Great library, music, currency, paper, nationallism trading for alphabeth, CoL, ++

The tech rate was really slow for all, but got 2x GS and 1x GM during GA trigged by great artist. Bulbed Philosophy, Education and was first to libralism and chose Military tradition. Had already started wipping for HA, and attacked Hannibal, which capitulated 1080AD.

Went for rifle and Cavalry, before attacking Brennus, which capitulated 1350AD

As I had a single city on the other continent, I then shipped all my cavalry to it, before taking down William and then going after Napoleon and Pascal.

At this point the game was won, as he had only grenadiers to defend with. After making him and Pascal capitulate, I sadly also had to attack Fredric, posponing the win to 1650AD

 

[krikav]

Deity NH/NE.

Spoiler T99 :

I moved the scout to the inland PH and then settled on the marble, the extra clam was sweet.
First plan was to go for oracle->HBR and attack Hannibal, but I swapped plans to get GLH as soon as I saw the offshore landmass.
AH->Mining->BW, two workboats before the first worker which I did at pop3 to work both seafood+lake to reach key techs faster.

I wanted to do a settler before starting GLH to not leave economy completely stunted.

Yeah, T47 GLH. August in the game? Swapping tactic back to oracle HBR here.

T57 & T58 Willy and Hannibal gets alphabet and I trade poly for TW and for archery.
I also trade for writing & monotheism abit later, and then get alpha for HBR+mono with the other guy.

Here I abandon plans for HAs. He had boasted about chariots for some time so I thought he didn't have metal, but now cities will fill up with spears and I don't think I can afford the attrition, still have room to expand too, so thats what I do now.

Library in capital.
I put a turn into lots of different techs, but the nice location we have allowed for quite abit of brokering. I could get techs from Brennus who didn't know about Willy, and then I could broker those to willy.
I did end up self-teching aestethics which I was first too.

Some turn into construction to get that from Willy, but I forgot to renew the ivory deal with him before getting construction, so he canceled it shortly and I couldn't afford to pay him enough to get it again. Maybe after SoZ is built.
I wanted to whip out some elephants to take advantage of the stables I built for the HA rush earlier.

After this I went for litterature and ended up finishing GLib with a 3pop whip. After that T47 GLH I'm abit paranoid.

GLib city couldn't catch up with oracletown, so I did run scientists in oracle too. Was planning to bulb theology with a GProphet, but I did get a GSci at about 30% odds.
Ideally I would have wanted to get drama for the philo-bulb now, and that would have made music cheaper. But now Hannibal has gotten litterature so I just have to try steamroll ahead.

I feel like develpment is abit slow, perhaps thats what you get from changing plans so many times. Don't think the clam start can be blamed with the mable city center.
Something I do know that was bad is Björgvin and Haibatu, cities that where not really in sync. Björgvin didn't have enough workers to get it up to speed efficiently, but I figured I just had to block of some land there.
Haibatu I settled before I knew there was iron there, neither plains cows nor dry rice was especially compelling to settle close by, but together and with the river for fin-cottages I think it made for a good city and I didn't dare to settle it later, even tough Jelling/Birka would probalby have paid back way faster.
Resource trades have been awful. I have had almost nothing that the others want. Getting abit better now when I have gotten the furs improved.

The map is sort of telling me to go for a cuir breakout. But I'm tempted to try out something with berserkers (possibly upgraded to grenadiers) too.
The Agg trait isn't giving any more omph to a cuir attack.
But fast boats with half-price drydocks and amphibious berserkers/grenaiders is sweet.

 

[Major Tom]

@krikav

T57 & T58 Willy and Hannibal gets alphabet and I trade poly for TW and for archery.
I also trade for writing & monotheism abit later, and then get alpha for HBR+mono with the other guy.

This is an interesting twist on how to get alpha. Never thought about it, probably because I can’t remember last time gone HBR, HArush on deity.

Spoiler :

Claiming all the fur was smart. I settled SE of horses. Now Hanni is a plague up there. Do not understand why you didn’t settle Jelling 1S. Birka I planted 1W on spices so it could share cows. 3 other cities just the same

 

[Major Tom]

Spoiler Around 700AD :

My pondering 1AD whether go for Lib or not, came to an end the turn after.
Willy got Lib 25AD.
I think what follows is why I struggle on deity.
Next plan: Taj is nice. Let’s go Nationalism. Good, got that. Barely have any units.
Next plan: Bulbs are nice. Full throttle caste+paci. Bulb EDU as trading chip. Also need Astro to control water. Surely Economics would also be beneficial. Barely have any units.
Next plan: Curassiers are nice. Let’s go MT.
After a couple of turns of teching that, I see another got it too. Besides, Hanni got plenty of pikemen and elephants. Can trade for it later. Barely have any units.
New plan: Cannons. I’m on my way now. Barely have any units. (To be continued).

***

But I bet: When at steel, I probably think drafted rifles could be necessary.

And so it goes until nukes.
In the meantime a monster has launched a spacecraft.

 

[AcaMetis]

Spoiler :

Yeah, T47 GLH. August in the game? Swapping tactic back to oracle HBR here.

Who build that? Anyone you know, or...I think you're missing only one, so the last missing AI?

 

[krikav]

Spoiler :

Who build that? Anyone you know, or...I think you're missing only one, so the last missing AI?

Spoiler :

Yeah, it's the last one. That one has also built ToAR.
It's usually august/rosy when it's that early though, ind and starting with fishing.

I was sort of happy to see that though, I had just built a lighthouse so I had not invested that many hammers so wasn't hurt so much. And game will probably be much more of a challenge w/o it.