Nobles' Club XXXVI: Gilgamesh

[cripp7]

@Bisque

Spoiler :

Way to go! Tech trading does get a bit getting used to, don't trade Education for Drama. I still have that some tech trading woes myself. City specialization is key, getting those buildings in sooner than later really helps. Keep it up! You'll be at Monarch before you know it.

 

[dalamb]

I plan on doing some espionage this time around, with those early courthouses, and thus might try to chop the Great Wall.

I got sidetracked and never finished, but certainly intend to come back to this game someday. If anyone is starting this game late, and wants to try espionage economy, check out madscientist's Peter/Russia and Mao/China RPCs.

 

[dalamb]

Initial thoughts

Aaand... Back after more than a year, inspired by madscientist's Julian Assange RPC, where he used Sumeria and went for espionage.

Spoiler :

I forget whether there was any specific reason why I abandoned this back when the game first ran, but suspect I missed the Great Wall and gave up. This time I decided to try for the GW again -- and when I failed again, decided to focus very narrowly on getting it done: mining > bronze working (slavery) > pottery (faster recovery from whips) > masonry, followed by hooking up the stone to the SE as quickly as possible. And so in 1700 BC:

I've explored most of my continent but for some reason ignored the area east of the stone for a long time:

My initial thoughts on city locations:

• Light blue to the NW gives copper for Vultures, but is very close and doesn't "settle toward the AI". If I hadn't popped IW from a hut it would be the highest priority.
• Light green to the east gets me iron for vultures, and somewhat blocks Sury. I think it's the actual highest priority.
• White to the SW would have decent production and food (wheat, cows) and helps block Tokugawa and Mansa. Strategically it's an important site -- maybe good for the 4th city.
• Dark blue to the NE gets seafood and might become a good commerce site now that I can chop jungles. It partly blocks Sury in that direction, and I likely need to expand that way eventually because of all the (relatively) uncontested land. However, if Sury expands that way he might just become a more tempting first target.

Comments on other people's games:

Spoiler :

@lymond: I'm one turn from Oracle and have the same puzzle as you: go for CoL for Confucianism, or try for something else? Metal Casting is my usual Oracle bait, but I'm wondering if I have enough time to wait and get something more expensive. You didn't show a map in your initial posting, but it sounded like you got something near my Eridu (wine/stone) and are contemplating White (cows/wheat).

@Navarre: Wow, I never contemplated setting so close to Mansa. I wonder if Kish will be under severe cultural pressure from the AI capital? I'd be afraid to lose the horses that way. I won't be checking your later game status until I get closer to the same game date, but it's something I'll watch for. Some of your other city locations are worth thinking about. 1S of your Nibru (Shafi's Kish) would get gold as well as the iron I've seen, and your location for Uruk (1NW of my dark blue) is worth thinking about.

 

[dalamb]

Basically a peaceful expansion.

Spoiler :

• 1350 AD: I get Metal Casting:
  
  
  
  Going for the Oracle in the same city as the Great Wall might have been a mistake, since it pollutes the Great Spy pool, but by the end of this session it hasn't yet happened. I might have been better off building it in Eridu but I might have missed it instead, since my second city wasn't producing as many .
• 625 BC: My first Great Spy. I got my second in 145 AD. One settled in Uruk and the other built Scotland Yard there, but I forget which was which. I think I settled the first one because I didn't expect to run the slier for a while -- but in an espionage-focused game like some of madscientist's, Scotland Yard is definitely the best choice.
• 290 BC: Met Churchill, who is Buddhist.
• 230 BC: Mansa's religion spreads to us:
  
  
• 145 BC: I noticed the Pyramids hadn't been built yet so started them in Kish, the iron city to the east -- but Tokugawa finished them next turn, giving me a tiny bit of failure cash.
• 140 BC: Despite not needing it for courthouses, nor wanting it for Caste-fueled specalists, CoL is still valuable as a prerequisite, so I performed my first technology steal from Mansa:
  
  
  
  I also did some conventional tech trading with him:
  
  
• 175 AD: I trade the stolen CoL to Churchill for Monarchy:
  
  
• 250 AD: It's important to stay on good terms with Mansa, so I accede to his demands and refuse Sury's:
  
  
  
• 325 AD: running low on cash, so this trade becomes attractive. I often don't think about selling techs; maybe I need to look for opportunities more often.
  
  
• Lately I've been trying to the the Apostolic Palace in many games because of the benefit from religious buildings, so when Mansa researched Theology I figured it was worth trading for it. My EP weren't high enough to steal it.
  
  
• 550 AD: Got the Health Herbs event.
  
  
  
  In most games when this shows up it's fairly early and the population/happiness hit is worth it. I decided to go with Option 3 but had to think about it for a while and am not sure it was the right choice -- health hadn't been a problem yet.

The situation in 550 AD:

• I've explored the whole continent, but have never built galleys to explore the nearby islands:
  
  
• Civilized territory:
  
  
  
  By now I'd decided to take over the Khmer empire, which I'll post about separately.

 

[dalamb]

My first war:

Spoiler :

By now I'd decided to take over the Khmer empire.

Spoiler history :

• 730 AD: Steal Construction from Sury -- to help in the immanent attack on him! I have enough EP left for Feudalism, too:
  
  
  
  
  Which led immediately to:
  
  
  
  It's nice to be able to tell Mansa what to research next -- and in this game I can steal from him sometimes instead of always having to find something to trade!
• 775 AD: At this point I was wishing I had horses, because they're a good start on a super-medic, when I thought to look for a trade. I almost never think about trading resources, but this was a very good deal for me:
  
  
• 860 AD: So it's nice to be able to steal HBR from Sury; that's two of his military techs I can use against him.
  
  
• 900 AD: It's nice to have a peaceful western border when attacking eastward, so I give up a lot of food for +3 with Tokugawa.
  
  
• 950 AD: I had directed Mansa to research Compass, but the techs I had to trade for it when he finished were too valuable and he didn't have enough money to compensate. By the time he added Machinery to the mix, the following seemed like a good trade:
  
  
  
  I spent a bit of cash upgrading a couple of CR II vultures to macemen, but couldn't afford more than that. I picked two that had been injured, which means they healed a little too.
• 970 AD: Time to attack the Khmer. I went for two fronts: in the north, I attacked Angor Wat, which was competing with my northeastern cities. In the south my cultural borders pushed right up against Rajavihara, so I could take it in one turn. Sometimes you use catapults, and sometimes you use EP:
  
  
  
  I raze it -- the reason being that I intend to plant my own city where I originally wanted (the yellow dot) after razing both of Sury's towns in that region.
  
  
• 980 AD: I conquer Angor Wat:
  
  
  
  In 1030 AD, I take Hariharalaya also.
• 990 AD: Nagara falls, and I finish:
  
  
  
  I switched to Taoism the previous turn, which only I have at this point, so the AIs won't get the benefit. This gives a 5-turn hit on diplomacy from Heathen Religion until I can switch back.
• 1090 AD: Mansa finishes Optics, and I steal it from him.
  
  
  
  I immediately build a pair of caravels, one in Nibru to sail west, and one in Bad-Tibira to sail east. In retrospect I only really needed the eastern one, since the other AIs all found me and I was able to trade for their maps.
• 1100 AD: I take the capital:
  
  
  
  There is still a town off to the northeast.
• 1140 AD: I take Angor Thom. At this point I need time to heal and to get my troops south for the last of Sury's territory
  
  
  
  -- and I see that he has two cities (one he can offer in trade), so getting his map to find the last one is valuable. If he'd settled on an island somewhere, he'd have been hard to find and invade.
• 1160 AD: Making circumnavigation faster by getting most of the area to the west via map trade:
  
  
• 1170 AD: I mistreat my vassal once again:
  
  
• 1230 AD: The nearby barbarian city culture flips:
  
  
  
  In retrospect it might have been better to raze it, so I might back up to this point an reverse my decision -- but I think I should just accept my mistake and move on.
• 1255 AD: My eastbound ship closes in on Zara's territory and circumnavigates the world.

Current status:

Spoiler :

• My continent:
  
  
• The other guys. Potentially lucrative trade with Ethiopia and the Inca is blocked by English territory, and Churchill is annoyed with me and won't open borders.
  
  
• The charts: I'm barely ahead of Zara and Churchill in power, which bodes ill for a war with England if I attack their Khmer vassal.
  
  
• The tech situation: Tokugawa is about to start researching his next tech, which from the chart seems like it's going to be education. I can only run a 20% science slider -- 30% at -7 gpt, giving me education in 29 turns. So he is in some sense ahead of me in the liberalism race until I get my post-war economy going. I'm OK until he gets Philosophy, though. Unfortunately Mansa has it and there's nothing I could do to prevent him trading it to Japan. For the moment there is nothing to trade, but I can imagine Mansa trading Philosophy for Paper at some point.
  
  
• I built only the Oracle and Great Wall, but now have several others captured from Sury:
  
  

I think I'll pause and work on initial city placement for the current Saladin game.

 

[Gumbolt]

Religious Victory 1784AD - Noble/Epic (85,305 points) But I was shooting for Domination and could have had it on that turn too

Two Firsts for me this game:
1) Religious Victory (never really tried it before)
2) Pre-1800AD victory

This brought back a few memories. Started playing and noticed low sea level and huts. Stopped me dead in my tracks.

Still struggling at 1800ad wins Lymond??