Noob Q: Civil Disorder during War

[Sic_Brutality]

OK, more noobie questions.....

I am now into my 3rd week of playing CivIII. I am doing MUCH better thanks to everyone on this forum but still having difficulties with certain things. My current game is: Chieftan, American, Large Map.

In the beginning of the game, I did the 'proper' placement of towns and all that good stuff, so my Civil disorder was prettly low. Early in the game, I went to war with the Iroquois because I had already managed to build a decent group of Cavalry and Medieval Infantry and a good Navy and they still had spearmen and warriors. So, I all but wiped them out because I attacked a little too early and spread my forces a little too thin. Anyway, I build back up, played the trading game of techs and such. It's now 1930 AD and I have the upper hand in the dominance category. The Aztecs are directly to my north and are the major concern. I want to knock them down a few notches. So, to my question, I attacked them last night in 4 cities at once and took 3 easily (even though they had infantry). Well, that was all in one turn and sure enough, as soon as I attacked, like..... 8 of my 20 cities went into disorder. Is this common with going to war? I had a few of neighboring towns 'flip' earlier because of my culture and they seemed to be the ones who rioted first. What can I do to lessen the situation? I tried to contact the Aztecs (propose peace treaty) a little while after the second attack but they refused my envoy. How can I keep my towns producing units when they keep going to civil disorder during wartime? Bump up the smiley face slider? Current govt is Democracy. I know there's war weariness, but this was right after the first turn.

All suggestions are welcome.

Thanks!

 

[thetrooper]

You will have instant war weariness in democracy if your second attack was close to your previous war. Your citizens don´t forget. Citizens in "flipped" cities will tell you something like: "Stop the aggression against..." Change govt or turn the lux slider up. Try the lux first (Americans have long anarchy period). Check your trade advisor for more luxuries, use entertainers and/or continue to beat up on the Aztecs until they will listen to you. Stick to republic in your next game. And of course - remember to build "happiness" improvements (temples, caths etc).

 

[dgfred]

You will have instant war weariness in democracy if your second attack was close to your previous war. Your citizens don´t forget. Citizens in "flipped" cities will tell you something like: "Stop the aggression against..." Change govt or turn the lux slider up. Try the lux first (Americans have long anarchy period). Check your trade advisor for more luxuries, use entertainers and/or continue to beat up on the Aztecs until they will listen to you. Stick to republic in your next game. And of course - remember to build "happiness" improvements (temples, caths etc).

Good advice trooper! . Although it is frowned upon by many players, I
always turn on the citizen happiness govenor in all my games .
Rarely do I have a problem with civil disorder .

 

[thetrooper]

Rarely do I have a problem with civil disorder .

Neither do I . I check citizen mood as soon as I go to war, hate to loose one turn in civil disorder.

@Sic_Brutality: you build marketplaces to max out the benefits from your luxuries?

 

[Kronis]

Neither do I . I check citizen mood as soon as I go to war, hate to loose one turn in civil disorder.

@Sic_Brutality: you build marketplaces to max out the benefits from your luxuries?

Word. Also, it's good to have somewhat of a buffer for your citizens' happiness. Just staying one notch above civil disorder (due to crowding, corruption, etc.) in peace time is a common problem for noobs.

It is worth it to build temples, cathedrals, and other improvements/wonders that increase your citizens' happiness. Your cities will be less likely to flip too. Trade for a few luxuries too- it feels good to know that you're keeping your neighbors' citizens unhappy by not trading with them, but not if it hurts your diplomacy rating and causes you to constantly quell riots yourself.

Lastly, if you've been beating up your neighbors and stealing their cities, it's a good bet there's a sizeable population (not resisting, but peaceful) in those cities who can be sympathetic to a country you're at war with, and contribute significantly to putting the cities into disorder. If you have a government other than Democracy, it's even worse for those fringe cities...

 

[rysingsun]

How can I keep my towns producing units when they keep going to civil disorder during wartime? Bump up the smiley face slider?

Thanks!

in a word, yes.

a word of advice. when you are at war check your happiness every single turn. war weariness is dependent on a number of factors including time, losses, who is invading whom, who started the war, the number of citizens in your cities of the nationality you are at war with, government, the loss of luxuries during war, and if i stopped to think about it probably several other things. because there are so many factors its easy to think you are doing fine on the luxury slider and end up with 20 riots. check it every turn while at war or you will be sorry. sometimes its good to err on the generous side with the luxury slider while at war because of unexpected changes in war weariness during the war.

its good to space wars apart. it gives citizens time to forget their war weariness.

its essential to spread them apart in democracy because if you dont you greatly increase the chance of a decent into anarchy.

better to be overpowered and have a quick war than just powerful enough and have a long war. its not just because unit losses are decreased although that is an important reason too. the other reason is because you reduce the number of turns to build up war weariness and reduce the number of turns you have to keep your luxury slider turned up.

if you like to go to war then do not use democracy unless you are a religious civ and can afford to be switching governments.

if you fight a war under democracy and the government collapses then when you come out of anarchy (if you are still at war) i recommend you dont go back to democracy again, even if religious. if you do the government may easily collapse again in one or two turns.

the worse your reputation the harder it is to negotiate peace. ive noticed if my reputation is horrible then i cant even negotiate peace when the civ is down to one city sometimes. big deal you say? that one city might be on the opposite side of the map. so now you have war weariness for an extra eight turns while you are sending troops half way around the globe to hunt that city down.

 

[Sic_Brutality]

Neither do I . I check citizen mood as soon as I go to war, hate to loose one turn in civil disorder.

@Sic_Brutality: you build marketplaces to max out the benefits from your luxuries?

Yeah, I have most of my cities completely stocked with everything up to Police Stations and Hospitals. Most of my cities had to start building Wealth because they just kept pumping out Rifleman after Rifleman. I think the major problems in this set-up were 1) I was in a democracy 2) The towns that went into disorder were either captured in the previous war or flipped due to culture. Still it made me angry. Good thing I saved it right before I attacked.

Maybe you someone can offer some more advice...... there are a lot of things I feel "Dragged" down by. For instance, from the last war, I captured a ton of workers. Now, I have like (estimate) 25-30 workers all on different spots. While it's good for getting jungle cleared and mines built in a hurry, I find it to be a nusiance when I am trying to attack. I'll be in the middle of moving troops and the cursor will pop halfway across the world to some worker in the middle of nowhere. I think I am going to break my spacebar from skipping turns. Anyway else to bypass worker movement during war? Or is it that I have too many workers?

On top of that, I feel like I am not getting enough action with war. I think that in this game, I was the only one who's attacked anything. Maybe something happened across the ocean, but ended quickly.

I control maybe 40% of the total land mass and easily have the largest army. Maybe this level is a little TOO easy????

I guess what I am asking is.... you guys think I might be ready for a jump in levels?

 

[Sic_Brutality]

@ rysingsun..... All very good points and all taken to heart. It was me as Lincoln who started both wars, not far apart, and I have quite a few citizens of other nationalities in multiple cities. Do these citizens stay 'foreign' the entire game or do they 'covert' after so many turns to my citizenship? If they don't, that would be cool for Civ IV. Sorta like getting a green card. hehe.

Anyway, yes, thanks for all the advice. I pretty much imagined that all the stuff I encountered was going to happen before I did it anyway. I think one of the things is that I am not attacking early enough. I think I waited until like 1400 to attack for the first time (heheh too scared to lose).

 

[Grogs]

@ rysingsun..... All very good points and all taken to heart. It was me as Lincoln who started both wars, not far apart, and I have quite a few citizens of other nationalities in multiple cities. Do these citizens stay 'foreign' the entire game or do they 'covert' after so many turns to my citizenship? If they don't, that would be cool for Civ IV. Sorta like getting a green card. hehe.

Anyway, yes, thanks for all the advice. I pretty much imagined that all the stuff I encountered was going to happen before I did it anyway. I think one of the things is that I am not attacking early enough. I think I waited until like 1400 to attack for the first time (heheh too scared to lose).

The citizens will convert... eventually. I think I've captured size 12+ cities and after nearly 100 turns some of them were still foreigners.

In general, if it's a city I've captured by force, I try and get rid of the foreign nationals as quickly as possible. I do this by taking citizens off the land and converting them to tax collectors (I love the irony in this) so that the city has a food shortage and starves. I have to repeat the process every turn since they'll automatically be reassigned when the city starves down. Once the population reaches a number I'm comfortable with (often 1), I crank food production to maximum to begin repopulating the city with my own citizens. It's brutal, but often necessary, especially if the civ you took the city from outcultures yours. Once I completely conquer the opposing civ, I usually let any remaining cities be since they don't have a mother country to flip over too now.

As for moving up, it sounds like you've got a pretty decent handle on the game, so I don't see why not. Moving up will force you to use better strategy to win and make you a better player as a result.

 

[bouncelot]

Or is it that I have too many workers?

No. It's pretty much impossible to have too many workers.

 

[thetrooper]

In general, if it's a city I've captured by force, I try and get rid of the foreign nationals as quickly as possible. I do this by taking citizens off the land and converting them to tax collectors (I love the irony in this) so that the city has a food shortage and starves.

Or (as soon as the city is out of civil disorder) hurry settlers there until the city is down to pop1.

 

[Turner]

That doesn't always work. The settlers will keep the pop of the nationality the last two citizens. So all you're really doing with that is spreading the misery around.

I just starve 'em, myself. Workers would probably work, too, but they'd be considered slave workers, unless you increased the pop before building the worker.

 

[thetrooper]

That doesn't always work. The settlers will keep the pop of the nationality the last two citizens. So all you're really doing with that is spreading the misery around.

Using the settlers after the war is over won´t spread the misery.

 

[Scuffer]

For instance, from the last war, I captured a ton of workers. Now, I have like (estimate) 25-30 workers all on different spots. While it's good for getting jungle cleared and mines built in a hurry, I find it to be a nusiance when I am trying to attack. I'll be in the middle of moving troops and the cursor will pop halfway across the world to some worker in the middle of nowhere. I think I am going to break my spacebar from skipping turns. Anyway else to bypass worker movement during war?

I like to have a stack of workers chasing behind my troops, building railroads etc to help reinforcements arrive. It's only useful if the AI hasn't put all these in place already, but on lower levels that's quite likely. Being able to rush an entire turn's production to the front line immediately is very handy. They'll need protection with them, of course

 

[Sic_Brutality]

The citizens will convert... eventually. I think I've captured size 12+ cities and after nearly 100 turns some of them were still foreigners.

As for moving up, it sounds like you've got a pretty decent handle on the game, so I don't see why not. Moving up will force you to use better strategy to win and make you a better player as a result.

Yeah, I noticed that last night. I waited a while and when I got the stuff I needed for nuclear power, I only needed Uranium and the only source was just outside my border in Aztec land. So, I knew I had to go to war and I did, and not nearly as many civil disorder cases. Most of them converted.

On the level thing, yeah... hehe I tried a 'quicky' startup on Warlord level last night. OH, it's WAY different just in the first 20 moves. I am going to have to learn more....

@ everyone who replied..... THANKS!!!

 

[Sic_Brutality]

I like to have a stack of workers chasing behind my troops, building railroads etc to help reinforcements arrive. It's only useful if the AI hasn't put all these in place already, but on lower levels that's quite likely. Being able to rush an entire turn's production to the front line immediately is very handy. They'll need protection with them, of course

LOL (I'm a little slow in my old age)!!! I finally figured out how to move them in stacks. Make managing them WAY easier. I mean, I had 30 workers, 1 worker per tile. So I was moving each one individually. LOL. It took 10 minutes to move them all around when I am doing the railroad/clear pollution stage of the game.

 

[rysingsun]

LOL (I'm a little slow in my old age)!!! I finally figured out how to move them in stacks.

and im very slow. i STILL havent figured out how to move them in stacks


is it possible with vanilla civ patch 1.29f? how?

some people during war like to to do a W (wait) on all military units until all the workers have moved and then start the attack for the turn. it lengthens the turns but makes the fighting a little less of a nuisance.

starving down cities has advantages and disadvantages obviously. when i go on a conquest spree usually i just dont leave defenders in all those conquered cities and i get back to them after that civilization is conquered. or at least i wait until they are well behind my front lines. waiting till after the war is over makes it easier to afford to place troops in them as well.

foreign citizens do eventually switch nationalities but dont hold your breath over it. the process is so slow as to be almost insignificant. when a civ is eliminated the foreigners of that civ will never be able to cause culture flips again. so going out of your way to take the last city even if its in an inconvenient location will reduce flipping problems.

if you add foreign workers to your cities add them far far away from the cities or their native civilization. even so there is a small chance of a culture flip from any city with a foreigner. the chance is so small i do it anyway and rarely get flips far from the front line.

culture flips to a civ you are at war with are not a big problem if you dont have units in that city to be lost. just take the city back. they will normally have only one unit defending them anyway. the alternative which is to keep big stacks of military in these cities to try to prevent flips doesnt always work and when you lose the big stack you will be very frustrated over it. maybe angry. maybe you will come here and tell everyone about how culture flips should be disabled. i never put giant stacks in newly acquired cities near the front line.

move up a level. its good for you

 

[Tomoyo]

The "J" key will move your units in a stack, but only if they are unfortified and of the same kind.

 

[TimBentley]

I have quite a few citizens of other nationalities in multiple cities. Do these citizens stay 'foreign' the entire game or do they 'covert' after so many turns to my citizenship?

They have a certain chance of being assimilated per turn dependent on your government (1% for anarchy or despotism, 2% for monarchy, republic, or fascism (if applicable), 3% for feudalism (if applicable), or 4% for democracy). These numbers (if the government exists) are the same for the final patches of all three versions.

 

[bouncelot]

They have a certain chance of being assimilated per turn dependent on your government (1% for anarchy or despotism, 2% for monarchy, republic, or fascism (if applicable), 3% for feudalism (if applicable), or 4% for democracy). These numbers (if the government exists) are the same for the final patches of all three versions.

What about Communism?